Communion Service = Playing Mass

[Fergal]

Scenario: All but one of our 4 Priests are away at a retreat. There are usually 3 daily Masses at our Parish. Whist they are away the number of Masses has been reduced to one at 7.30am.

Rant:
I just can’t understand why, when our Parish is offering one daily Mass at 7.30am, our female Pastoral Coordinator along with a group of sidekicks, has devised a Communion Service at 10am. The spirit of present Church legislation is such that if your Parish is able to offer at least one Sunday Mass, a daily Communion service is not to be held and the Bishop is encouraged not to give permission for it.

It seems to me that these women are two steps away from the famous boat ‘ordained’. They wish to play priest and offer an alternative service in which the Priest is put to one side. They prefer to seperate supper and sacrifice all under the guise of Pastoral concern. These women from our Parish, all of whom have openly rubbished the Holy Father and the Hierarchy, and publically advocate for women’s ordination are doing the position of women in the Church no favours. They have banded together and put on a show, getting a cantor, readers and other extraordinary ministers together (all female) in order to show what the alternative might be like. There is never this much effort from her for a daily Mass, not even for a Sunday Mass.

To me it is a sham and it usurps the positions the Church has entrusted to them. They are like a bunch of silly schoolgirls who wnat to play house or in this case Church> May God forgive me for feeling such internal upset at it and may He forgive them for the confusion and dissent they sow.

 

[rj04]

I can’t really comment too much, but I do understand your frustrations.

I left Mass yesterday feeling similarly due to an Extraordinary Eucharist Minister replacing the pastor during Communion. Not only were there two priests and a deacon present (the deacon and one priest “sat out” Communion), but the Eucharistic Minister was female!

We gotta love the “spirit of Vatican 2” and “participation of the laity,” eh!

 

[frommi]

I would have to say (from personal judgment) that if the parish is having a mass at 7am, then the more prudent thing to do would be to offer liturgy of the hours for the second service.

It’s lamentable that so many places don’t take advantage of morning, mid-day, and evening prayer.

 

[Michael_Welter]

Fergal,

My heart goes out to you. I hope you don’t take it lying down. Complain to the Bishop, then the Vatican, of necessary.

 

[kleary]

Scenario: All but one of our 4 Priests are away at a retreat. There are usually 3 daily Masses at our Parish. Whist they are away the number of Masses has been reduced to one at 7.30am.

Rant:
I just can’t understand why, when our Parish is offering one daily Mass at 7.30am, our female Pastoral Coordinator along with a group of sidekicks, has devised a Communion Service at 10am. The spirit of present Church legislation is such that if your Parish is able to offer at least one Sunday Mass, a daily Communion service is not to be held and the Bishop is encouraged not to give permission for it.

It seems to me that these women are two steps away from the famous boat ‘ordained’. They wish to play priest and offer an alternative service in which the Priest is put to one side. They prefer to seperate supper and sacrifice all under the guise of Pastoral concern. These women from our Parish, all of whom have openly rubbished the Holy Father and the Hierarchy, and publically advocate for women’s ordination are doing the position of women in the Church no favours. They have banded together and put on a show, getting a cantor, readers and other extraordinary ministers together (all female) in order to show what the alternative might be like. There is never this much effort from her for a daily Mass, not even for a Sunday Mass.

To me it is a sham and it usurps the positions the Church has entrusted to them. They are like a bunch of silly schoolgirls who wnat to play house or in this case Church> May God forgive me for feeling such internal upset at it and may He forgive them for the confusion and dissent they sow.

:tsktsk: :bigyikes: :crying: With this big upgrade I thought they would have a new “I am throwing up” smiley…

Ken

 

[TimOliv]

Scandalous

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Scenario: All but one of our 4 Priests are away at a retreat. There are usually 3 daily Masses at our Parish. Whist they are away the number of Masses has been reduced to one at 7.30am.

Rant:
I just can’t understand why, when our Parish is offering one daily Mass at 7.30am, our female Pastoral Coordinator along with a group of sidekicks, has devised a Communion Service at 10am. The spirit of present Church legislation is such that if your Parish is able to offer at least one Sunday Mass, a daily Communion service is not to be held and the Bishop is encouraged not to give permission for it.

It seems to me that these women are two steps away from the famous boat ‘ordained’. They wish to play priest and offer an alternative service in which the Priest is put to one side. They prefer to seperate supper and sacrifice all under the guise of Pastoral concern. These women from our Parish, all of whom have openly rubbished the Holy Father and the Hierarchy, and publically advocate for women’s ordination are doing the position of women in the Church no favours. They have banded together and put on a show, getting a cantor, readers and other extraordinary ministers together (all female) in order to show what the alternative might be like. There is never this much effort from her for a daily Mass, not even for a Sunday Mass.

To me it is a sham and it usurps the positions the Church has entrusted to them. They are like a bunch of silly schoolgirls who wnat to play house or in this case Church> May God forgive me for feeling such internal upset at it and may He forgive them for the confusion and dissent they sow.

Fergal:

Have you contacted your Bishop and your Archbishop about this apostacy and heresy? How persistently?

Have you documented this and tried to send the documentation to the Vatican?

Have you told your priests of your parish who were allowing this apostacy and heresy that you were taking these actions for the good of the parish as well as for the sake of your soul?

I think if you’ve done these things, and what your Pastoral Coordinator and her henchpeople are continuing in their abuses, you have every right to “shake the dust from your feet” and to find an orthodox parish which isn’t going to allow someone like her to carry out abuses such as these.

Meanwhile, Is there any way the priests could go on retreat 2 by 2 rather than as they are doing now? Why hasn’t the parish used this opportunity to do the Liturgy of the Hours which are the services the Church designated for situations such as you described?

The LORD bless you and keep you!
The LORD let his face shine upon you, and be gracious to you!
The LORD look upon you kindly and give you peace!
Nbr 6:24-26 NAB

Shalom,
Your Brother In Christ, Michael

 

[awalt]

What about people who can’t make the 7:30 Mass and adore the Eucharist?

Aren’t there bigger issues to be concerned about? I don’t see the issue with offering a Communion service later in the day for those that can’t make the early morning Mass - people may not be able to make ti due to kids/school/work etc…

 

[MusicMan]

This parish should be grateful that they have multiple priests, and that they can normally have multiple daily Masses… which I would assume are offered at convenient times for just about everyone. Perhaps, instead of taking advantage of the situation to advance an obvious agenda, the people of this parish could sacrifice by either arranging their schedules to make the one Mass that is offered, or view the time where they are unable to make it to daily Mass as a hardship, making their time when they can attend Mass that much richer.

 

[jc-servant]

I can’t really comment too much, but I do understand your frustrations.

I left Mass yesterday feeling similarly due to an Extraordinary Eucharist Minister replacing the pastor during Communion. Not only were there two priests and a deacon present (the deacon and one priest “sat out” Communion), but the Eucharistic Minister was female!

We gotta love the “spirit of Vatican 2” and “participation of the laity,” eh!

Way to put an uncharitable spin on a situation. Did you ask your priests or deacon why this was done? It does not sound good, but your comment about the sex of the EMHC was really unnecessary. It sounds like no lay person regardless of their sex should have been distributing communion or would you find a man more acceptable in this situation even though he is not ordained? Just because some women in the church have an agenda does not mean that all of us deserve snide comment.

Perhaps the woman was asked to help while the others performed their proper duties and they left her hanging in the wind. I once had a visiting priest start clearing the altar and leave me distributing communion on one side of the church instead of taking my place since my line was the longest. I didn’t realize until after I was finished that he was back behind the altar because of course I wasn’t looking around the church. (We must use EMHCs due to sheer numbers of more than 1200 per mass with the maximum # of masses held each Sunday.) Maybe someone in the pews looked up and attributed some priest-wannabe, “spirit of Vatican II” attitude to me on that day, but they would have been uncharitable and incorrect. I always pray before assisting at mass that the people see only Our Lord and not me. I look forward to the day when we have enough priests and deacons that my help is not ever needed.

 

[TimOliv]

Way to put an uncharitable spin on a situation. Did you ask your priests or deacon why this was done? It does not sound good, but your comment about the sex of the EMHC was really unnecessary. It sounds like no lay person regardless of their sex should have been distributing communion or would you find a man more acceptable in this situation even though he is not ordained? Just because some women in the church have an agenda does not mean that all of us deserve snide comment.

Perhaps the woman was asked to help while the others performed their proper duties and they left her hanging in the wind. I once had a visiting priest start clearing the altar and leave me distributing communion on one side of the church instead of taking my place since my line was the longest. I didn’t realize until after I was finished that he was back behind the altar because of course I wasn’t looking around the church. (We must use EMHCs due to sheer numbers of more than 1200 per mass with the maximum # of masses held each Sunday.) Maybe someone in the pews looked up and attributed some priest-wannabe, “spirit of Vatican II” attitude to me on that day, but they would have been uncharitable and incorrect. I always pray before assisting at mass that the people see only Our Lord and not me. I look forward to the day when we have enough priests and deacons that my help is not ever needed.

Actually, I’d say concern for the EMHC’s sex is a very valid concern. With a male, at least there is the reasonable possibility that he could become a Deacon or a Priest. With a female EMHC, there is no way she would ever be permitted to distribute the Eucharist…except for the fact that she showed up on EMHC Orientation day…

 

[DonProfondo]

Another question is, why are three of the four priests on retreat at the same time? I understand that priests are required to make an annual retreat, but this sounds like careless scheduling.

 

[lak611]

Perhaps the woman was asked to help while the others performed their proper duties and they left her hanging in the wind. I once had a visiting priest start clearing the altar and leave me distributing communion on one side of the church instead of taking my place since my line was the longest. I didn’t realize until after I was finished that he was back behind the altar because of course I wasn’t looking around the church. (We must use EMHCs due to sheer numbers of more than 1200 per mass with the maximum # of masses held each Sunday.) Maybe someone in the pews looked up and attributed some priest-wannabe, “spirit of Vatican II” attitude to me on that day, but they would have been uncharitable and incorrect. I always pray before assisting at mass that the people see only Our Lord and not me. I look forward to the day when we have enough priests and deacons that my help is not ever needed.

In my church, there is a retired priest in residence. He has really bad arthritis, so he cannot stand long enough to distribute Communion to everybody in his line. He starts and then hands his plate to an EMHC to finish, then he purifies his chalice and sits down until Communion of the faithful is done. Perhaps, the visiting priest has some kind of health problem and is physically unable to stand a long time. Even if he is young, that does not necessarily rule out health issues.

 

[Cursillista_Jim]

3 of 4 priests gone still leaves one there. Surely he could celebrate a second mass in this case. Our pastor always celebrates a Saturday morning mass, a vigil mass, and three more on Sunday. We have visiting priests when our 1 priest (in a parish with 1600 registered families and another 400 that attend mass on Sundays) is unavailable. On those rare occasions where a priest is not available for a daily mass, a deacon has a communion service.
However I don’t understand remarks about the sex of EMHC’s. All of us, including my wife, go through training by our pastor and a deacon and are approved and appointed every two years by our Archbishop. (We get a certificate signed by him) If the Archbishop of Atlanta, who was previously president of the Council of Bishops, thinks that it’s ok, it’s ok with me.
Peace to all,
Jim

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Scenario: All but one of our 4 Priests are away at a retreat. There are usually 3 daily Masses at our Parish. Whist they are away the number of Masses has been reduced to one at 7.30am.

Rant:
I just can’t understand why, when our Parish is offering one daily Mass at 7.30am, our female Pastoral Coordinator along with a group of sidekicks, has devised a Communion Service at 10am. The spirit of present Church legislation is such that if your Parish is able to offer at least one Sunday Mass, a daily Communion service is not to be held and the Bishop is encouraged not to give permission for it.

It seems to me that these women are two steps away from the famous boat ‘ordained’. They wish to play priest and offer an alternative service in which the Priest is put to one side. They prefer to seperate supper and sacrifice all under the guise of Pastoral concern. These women from our Parish, all of whom have openly rubbished the Holy Father and the Hierarchy, and publically advocate for women’s ordination are doing the position of women in the Church no favours. They have banded together and put on a show, getting a cantor, readers and other extraordinary ministers together (all female) in order to show what the alternative might be like. There is never this much effort from her for a daily Mass, not even for a Sunday Mass.

To me it is a sham and it usurps the positions the Church has entrusted to them. They are like a bunch of silly schoolgirls who wnat to play house or in this case Church> May God forgive me for feeling such internal upset at it and may He forgive them for the confusion and dissent they sow.

I disagree, look at from the lone priest’s perspective. Everything is on his shoulders. He is still doing one daily mass, but has other duties so he has felt he cannot do all three by himself. This is what he decided with the liturgical coordinator as a compromise. There is no scandal here at all, just time delegation.

 

[quiet52]

Scenario: All but one of our 4 Priests are away at a retreat. There are usually 3 daily Masses at our Parish.

What a blessing! Some parishes don’t offer Mass each weekday

Whist they are away the number of Masses has been reduced to one at 7.30am.

Rant:
I just can’t understand why, when our Parish is offering one daily Mass at 7.30am, our female Pastoral Coordinator along with a group of sidekicks, has devised a Communion Service at 10am.

So you take issue with the gender of your parish’s pastoral coordinator? If, in her appointed role, her being female is okay with your pastor and bishop, why isn’t it okay with you? Your words smack of simple prejudice – she’s female, therefore she’s “bad” for doing this service? You state you “can’t understand why” – why don’t you have a (charitable) chat with your pastor, so that you can develop your understanding? Perhaps parishioners approached him far in advance of his retreat, asking that a Communion service be provided while the priests are away.

Perhaps only she and her “sidekicks” were the only ones available to provide the Communion service in mid-morning. Your word “devised” connotes something negative here – suggesting that she didn’t use the liturgy as prescribed in the books – that she “invented” this herself – and that she did something wrong. Are you accusing her of offering this service without the permission of your pastor? or straying from the liturgical book to do her own thing? Unless you have consulted with your pastor and are absolutely sure about this, shame on you for dumping on her with such lack of charity in this public forum

The spirit of present Church legislation is such that if your Parish is able to offer at least one Sunday Mass, a daily Communion service is not to be held and the Bishop is encouraged not to give permission for it.

If she did with because your pastor asked her to, then she did nothing wrong. If you can only despise her instead of thanking her for serving your fellow parishioners, then I suggest you do some praying.

It seems to me that these women are two steps away from the famous boat ‘ordained’. They wish to play priest and offer an alternative service in which the Priest is put to one side. They prefer to seperate supper and sacrifice all under the guise of Pastoral concern. These women from our Parish, all of whom have openly rubbished the Holy Father and the Hierarchy, and publically advocate for women’s ordination are doing the position of women in the Church no favours. They have banded together and put on a show, getting a cantor, readers and other extraordinary ministers together (all female) in order to show what the alternative might be like.

Those lay people who distribute Holy Communion – whether during Mass, to the sick and homebound, or during a Communion Service – do so because they have been commissioned by the bishop, through their pastor. They are not “playing priest.” They have no intention to “rubbish” our Pope and the Church. They know they are not ordained and never will be. Who are you, to jump to conclusions and to judge their motivation? You are certainly not God, who is the only one who is to judge people’s hearts. EMHCs (extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion) do not “separate supper and sacrifice all under the guise of pastoral concern.” The sacrifice of the Mass has already taken place – these are previously-consecrated hosts they are distributing. EMHCs are extensions of the Ordinary Ministers’ hands. They know this.

And as for them putting on a show – what a sad attitude you have. The Communion Service includes scripture readings (thus the readers). Singing is allowed during a Communion service – that this “band” of ladies cared enough about the participation of the communicants and provided a cantor is something to be commended, not disdained. I hope the other parishioners who participated in the Communion Service were grateful of the opportunity to receive the Blessed Sacrament that morning. If your heart was so disposed of contempt toward this group of women for sacrificing their time and providing this service, I hope you asked for forgiveness and gave thanks before receiving our Lord.

There is never this much effort from her for a daily Mass, not even for a Sunday Mass.

How do you know about her efforts? Do you follow her around? I know several EMHCs who do much before, after, and in-between Masses – without seeking attention – but who step forward, to do the more visible tasks, when asked.

To me it is a sham and it usurps the positions the Church has entrusted to them. They are like a bunch of silly schoolgirls who wnat to play house or in this case Church> May God forgive me for feeling such internal upset at it and may He forgive them for the confusion and dissent they sow.

A sham is something that isn’t genuine, or a pretense. You need to speak with your pastor, so you will develop a better-informed opinion. She provided a lawful and worthy service to your fellow parishioners. What a gift, that those who weren’t able to attend the early morning Mass could receive the Eucharist mid-morning.

The word usurp means to take power or position or right wrongfully or by force. So she forced herself upon the congregation to do this ministry? Unless you know for sure that she did this, then do not put her down.

If you do not like the fact that the Church allows lay people to perform various functions, then please take your complaints to the powers-that-be, and stop dumping on those who offer their time, talent, and gifts of love.

I just realized the OPs post is an old one – but now that I’ve written this response, here it is. QUOTE]

 

[Newbie2]

Actually, I’d say concern for the EMHC’s sex is a very valid concern. With a male, at least there is the reasonable possibility that he could become a Deacon or a Priest. With a female EMHC, there is no way she would ever be permitted to distribute the Eucharist…except for the fact that she showed up on EMHC Orientation day…

What does the potential for one to become a priest or deacon have to do with their qualification to serve as a EMHC? Nothing! It has absolutely nothing to do with the distribution of communion as a mass served in the present time.

Second, why should women be barred from serving as EMHCs?? I’d like to hear a valid reason.

 

[Just_Lurking]

3 of 4 priests gone still leaves one there. Surely he could celebrate a second mass in this case.

From canon law (see here):

Can. 905 §1. A priest is not permitted to celebrate the Eucharist more than once a day except in cases where the law permits him to celebrate or concelebrate more than once on the same day.

 

[benedictgal]

According to Redemptionis Sacramentum, Communion services should only happen on Sundays, under the following circumstances:

164.] “If participation at the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible on account of the absence of a sacred minister or for some other grave cause”,269 then it is the Christian people’s right that the diocesan Bishop should provide as far as he is able for some celebration to be held on Sundays for that community under his authority and according to the Church’s norms. Sunday celebrations of this specific kind, however, are to be considered altogether extraordinary. All Deacons or lay members of Christ’s faithful who are assigned a part in such celebrations by the diocesan Bishop should strive “to keep alive in the community a genuine ‘hunger’ for the Eucharist, so that no opportunity for the celebration of Mass will ever be missed, also taking advantage of the occasional presence of a Priest who is not impeded by Church law from celebrating Mass”.270

Furthermore, the document On Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Ministry of the Priest also specifically address the issue of Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest:

Article 7

Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest

§ 1. In some places in the absence of priests or deacons,(90) non-ordained members of the faithful lead Sunday celebrations. In many instances, much good derives for the local community from this useful and delicate service when it is discharged in accordance with the spirit and the specific norms issued by the competent ecclesiastical authority.(91) A special mandate of the Bishop is necessary for the non-ordained members of the faithful to lead such celebrations. This mandate should contain specific instructions with regard to the term of applicability, the place and conditions in which it is operative, as well as indicate the priest responsible for overseeing these celebrations.

§ 2. It must be clearly understood that such celebrations are temporary solutions and the text used at them must be approved by the competent ecclesiastical authority.(92) The practice of inserting into such celebrations elements proper to the Holy Mass is prohibited. So as to avoid causing error in the minds of the faithful,(93) the use of the eucharistic prayers, even in narrative form, at such celebrations is forbidden. For the same reasons, it should be emphasised for the benefit of those participating, that such celebrations cannot substitute for the eucharistic Sacrifice and that the obligation to attend mass on Sunday and Holy days y obligation is satisfied only by attendance at Holy Mass.(94) In cases where distance or physical conditions are not an obstacle, every effort should be made to encourage and assist the faithful to fulfil this precept.

No mention is made for daily Mass. Daily Mass, as laudable and worthy a custom as it is, it not obligatory. Therefore, substituting Daily Mass with the Liturgy of the Hours is most appropriate (unless, of course, a Holy Day of Obligations falls during the Week, then, the pastor needs to make provisions for Mass).

 

[EasterJoy]

Actually, I’d say concern for the EMHC’s sex is a very valid concern. With a male, at least there is the reasonable possibility that he could become a Deacon or a Priest. With a female EMHC, there is no way she would ever be permitted to distribute the Eucharist…except for the fact that she showed up on EMHC Orientation day…

Oh, so all that is required in your parish to become a EMHC is the ability to fog a mirror and show up on time for EMHC Orientation Day, is that it? I suppose next you will say that there are men waiting in line to be EMHCs, but the women take all the spots. Same with the lectors. Heck, the guys would clean the church and serve lunches at the funerals, too, if the dames weren’t hogging up all the opportunities for Christian service. Do you think that if it weren’t that a baptized woman is allowed to be an EMHC, there would be a waiting list for the men dying to take on the diaconate? It sounds like it. What hogwash!

Is it any wonder why so many women feel they are 2nd class citizens in the Church? The truth is, with a lot of guys, we are. It is as if you were to force yourself to admit that women in the laity are just as baptized as the men are (“co-heirs” is the way one inspired writer put it, I believe?) the men would all leave the Church. “If you let girls serve at the altar, the boys don’t want to do it.” How many times have I endured that line? Fine young men you have there. Great candidates for “women’s work”, like washing feet, and such like.

Do you assume now that I think women should be ordained? I don’t. It is just that you have no idea what difficulty this kind of attitude causes for Catholic women caught in the middle of all of this nonsense. I get so sick of it coming from both directions, I could just scream.

Think about how your parish would be running, if all the work were left to the men who might be considering a life of service in the Church. There would be an awful lot left undone, and I don’t need a crystal ball to know that. Neither do you.