Communion Service vs. Mass

[srfnolen]

Our diocese pastors will be at a retreat this week so most parishes will have simply a communion service. Besides the obvious absence of the pastor, what can we expect to see?

Thank you,
Srfnolen

 

[1ke]

dioceseoflansing.org/lansing/sites/all/themes/lansing/pdf/worship/2012PTCommunionOutsideMass.pdf

 

[Usige]

I’m confused. Do you mean all the diocesan priest will be gone on Sunday or that they will be gone during the week and the parishes will have a daily communion service instead of daily Mass?

 

[Bonnie]

That happens here, too. Our priest has his phone for emergencies; I’d assume all the priests do.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

I’m confused. Do you mean all the diocesan priest will be gone on Sunday or that they will be gone during the week and the parishes will have a daily communion service instead of daily Mass?

I can’t imagine a priests’ retreat that takes clergy away on a weekend.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

A Communion Service without a priest is generally similar to a Mass except that the hosts distributed were pre-consecrated at an earlier Mass. So, of course, no Eucharistic Prayer. The Communion Service should only be seen as an emergency substitute for the actual Mass.

 

[CB_Catholic]

These retreats are usually held during the week, and the priests are returned to their respective parishes in time for weekend Masses.

 

[zab]

You should expect that there will not be a “Communion Service” on a weekday in the absence of the priests, especially if the priest will return on the prceeding or following Sunday.
The Following from ** Redeptionis Sacramentum**:[vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter VII](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...0423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter VII)

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday.

In our parish, when Father is on retreat (or vacation) the pastor usually arranges for one of the retired priests in the diocese (or occassionally when available Navy chaplains) to fill in. On those rare occasions when Father is gone and no replacement can be found, our Deacon leads us in the Liturgy of the Word with Benediction. And this is the usual Monday Service on Father’s day off.

[165] It will be preferable, moreover, when both a Priest and a Deacon are absent, that the various parts be distributed among several faithful rather than having a single lay member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone.** Nor is it ever appropriate to refer to any member of the lay faithful as “presiding” over the celebration**.

 

[Usige]

I can’t imagine a priests’ retreat that takes clergy away on a weekend.

These retreats are usually held during the week, and the priests are returned to their respective parishes in time for weekend Masses.

Which is what I suspected. Communion Services are not supposed to be used in the place of weekday masses. I am suprised that the Bishop would authorize every parish to have multiple of these a week, but not my call. I just wanted to clarify incase for some reason I misunderstood why they were having communion services.

 

[CB_Catholic]

You should expect that there will not be a “Communion Service” on a weekday in the absence of the priests, especially if the priest will return on the prceeding or following Sunday.
The Following from ** Redeptionis Sacramentum**:[vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter VII](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...0423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter VII)

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday.

In our parish, when Father is on retreat (or vacation) the pastor usually arranges for one of the retired priests in the diocese (or occassionally when available Navy chaplains) to fill in. On those rare occasions when Father is gone and no replacement can be found, our Deacon leads us in the Liturgy of the Word with Benediction. And this is the usual Monday Service on Father’s day off.

In the absence of a priest and deacon it is possible for a lay person to lead a Liturgy of the Word. And it is possible to have Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament without Benediction. I would assume that such a person would be appointed by the pastor and have prior knowledge of how to lead such a service and what to do.

The whole matter is up to the Diocesan Bishop as the statement says. And if permission is granted, that is the end of that. Rome allows him that privilege.

 

[zab]

The whole matter is up to the Diocesan Bishop as the statement says. And if permission is granted, that is the end of that. Rome allows him that privilege.

That is what it says

 

[CB_Catholic]

That is what it says

I understand, but when some people read a document like this, and I am not referring to anyone in particular, they get upset because it says it should not be easily granted, and they start telling people it really should not be done, etc. I’ve seen this done over and over on these forums. I’m just pointing out the heart of the matter–the Bishop gets to decide and our opinion doesn’t matter.

 

[zab]

I understand, but when some people read a document like this, and I am not referring to anyone in particular, they get upset because it says it should not be easily granted, and they start telling people it really should not be done, etc. I’ve seen this done over and over on these forums. I’m just pointing out the heart of the matter–the Bishop gets to decide and our opinion doesn’t matter.

That is correct

 

[pianistclare]

These retreats are usually held during the week, and the priests are returned to their respective parishes in time for weekend Masses.

Yup. And around here, the retired priests are assigned one to a Deanery to cover any emergencies. Since they are not on active duty, they don’t have to attend the annual conference.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

You should expect that there will not be a “Communion Service” on a weekday in the absence of the priests, especially if the priest will return on the prceeding or following Sunday.
The Following from ** Redeptionis Sacramentum**:[vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter VII](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...0423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter VII)

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday.

In our parish, when Father is on retreat (or vacation) the pastor usually arranges for one of the retired priests in the diocese (or occassionally when available Navy chaplains) to fill in. On those rare occasions when Father is gone and no replacement can be found, our Deacon leads us in the Liturgy of the Word with Benediction. And this is the usual Monday Service on Father’s day off.

[165] It will be preferable, moreover, when both a Priest and a Deacon are absent, that the various parts be distributed among several faithful rather than having a single lay member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone.** Nor is it ever appropriate to refer to any member of the lay faithful as “presiding” over the celebration**.

I would like to add that the quoting of this passage from Redemptionis sacramentum in this context is inappropriate and the conclusion that there should be no Communion service in the circumstance of this thread is an incorrect understanding of this document and the other norms governing distribution of Holy Communion outside Mass.

At this point in Redemptionis sacramentum, the situation being considered is where there is a stable unavailability of priests to provide Mass at all, even on Sunday, and what are the best remedies in such a situation. Paragraph 166 follows upon effort to provide Mass on Sundays and that the local Ordinary must apply extra care and judgment in a situation regarding recourse to the habitual use of Communion services indiscriminately in an ongoing circumstance.

It is necessary that this part of the document be quoted in order to re-establish the appropriate context:
*[165.] It is necessary to avoid any sort of confusion between this type of gathering [The Sunday Celebration in the Absence of a Priest] and the celebration of the Eucharist . The diocesan Bishops, therefore, should prudently discern whether Holy Communion ought to be distributed in these gatherings. The matter would appropriately be determined in view of a more ample co-ordination in the Bishops’ Conference, to be put into effect after the recognitio of the acts by the Apostolic See through the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. /…/
That is an entirely different situation from the matter being discussed, where daily Mass is habitually being offered but there will be an essential short-term absence of a few days because of a convocation of the diocesan presbyterate.

In such cases as the one that is the subject of this thread, one in the United States should properly look to the norms for Weekday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest:

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/frequently-asked-questions/weekday-celebrations-in-the-absence-of-a-priest.cfm

As a priest, I can only add my voice to the others who have said that these decisions about Communion Services rest with the bishop of the diocese and when a decision is taken by competent ecclesiastical authority, it should be embraced. Nothing should be done which in any way calls into question the diocesan bishop’s competence to address liturgical matters for his diocese or his authority to definitively resolve them. As Pope Benedict wrote to the world’s Catholic bishops in July 2007:
Each Bishop, in fact, is the moderator of the liturgy in his own Diocese (cf. Sacrosanctum Concilium, 22: “Sacrae Liturgiae moderatio ab Ecclesiae auctoritate unice pendet quae quidem est apud Apostolicam Sedem et, ad normam iuris, apud Episcopum”).*

 

[zab]

I would like to add that the quoting of this passage from Redemptionis sacramentum in this context is inappropriate and the conclusion that there should be no Communion service in the circumstance of this thread is an incorrect understanding of this document and the other norms governing distribution of Holy Communion outside Mass.

At this point in Redemptionis sacramentum, the situation being considered is where there is a stable unavailability of priests to provide Mass at all, even on Sunday, and what are the best remedies in such a situation. Paragraph 166 follows upon effort to provide Mass on Sundays and that the local Ordinary must apply extra care and judgment in a situation regarding recourse to the habitual use of Communion services indiscriminately in an ongoing circumstance.

It is necessary that this part of the document be quoted in order to re-establish the appropriate context:
[165.] It is necessary to avoid any sort of confusion between this type of gathering [The Sunday Celebration in the Absence of a Priest] and the celebration of the Eucharist . The diocesan Bishops, therefore, should prudently discern whether Holy Communion ought to be distributed in these gatherings. The matter would appropriately be determined in view of a more ample co-ordination in the Bishops’ Conference, to be put into effect after the recognitio of the acts by the Apostolic See through the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. /…/
That is an entirely different situation from the matter being discussed, where daily Mass is habitually being offered but there will be an essential short-term absence of a few days because of a convocation of the diocesan presbyterate.

In such cases as the one that is the subject of this thread, one in the United States should properly look to the norms for Weekday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest:

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/frequently-asked-questions/weekday-celebrations-in-the-absence-of-a-priest.cfm

As a priest, I can only add my voice to the others who have said that these decisions about Communion Services rest with the bishop of the diocese and when a decision is taken by competent ecclesiastical authority, it should be embraced. Nothing should be done which in any way calls into question the diocesan bishop’s competence to address liturgical matters for his diocese or his authority to definitively resolve them. As Pope Benedict wrote to the world’s Catholic bishops in July 2007:
Each Bishop, in fact, is the moderator of the liturgy in his own Diocese (cf. Sacrosanctum Concilium, 22: “Sacrae Liturgiae moderatio ab Ecclesiae auctoritate unice pendet quae quidem est apud Apostolicam Sedem et, ad normam iuris, apud Episcopum”).

Don Ruggero misunderstood my post. It is incorrect to say that I came to a conclusion that a “Communion Service” should never occur in the absence of a priest or deacon.

I do not see how my quote from Redeptionis Sacramentum is “inappropriate” as Don Ruggero claims. The quote that I posted clearly states that the exclusive competence of this matter pertains to the diocesan bishop. Also my post included a portion of[165] which referred to the situation when the celebration (referring to Communion Service") was celebrated in the absence of a priest and deacon. You will read in the quote that I posted that in such situations the tasks be distributed among several of the faithful rather than having a single member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone…

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Don Ruggero misunderstood my post. It is incorrect to say that I came to a conclusion that a “Communion Service” should never occur in the absence of a priest or deacon.

I do not see how my quote from Redeptionis Sacramentum is “inappropriate” as Don Ruggero claims. The quote that I posted clearly states that the exclusive competence of this matter pertains to the diocesan bishop. Also my post included a portion of[165] which referred to the situation when the celebration (referring to Communion Service") was celebrated in the absence of a priest and deacon. You will read in the quote that I posted that in such situations the tasks be distributed among several of the faithful rather than having a single member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone…

This is what the original poster said:
Our diocese pastors will be at a retreat this week so most parishes will have simply a communion service. Besides the obvious absence of the pastor, what can we expect to see?
This was the response you gave:
You should expect that there will not be a “Communion Service” on a weekday in the absence of the priests, especially if the priest will return on the prceeding or following Sunday.
Which is why I said that your response was a misapplication of Redemptionis sacramentum as the passage you cited was addressing an entirely different issue. The original poster has already stated that most parishes in her diocese are having Communion Services as the response to the priests mandated absence.

Also my post included a portion of[165] which referred to the situation when the celebration (referring to Communion Service") was celebrated in the absence of a priest and deacon. You will read in the quote that I posted that in such situations the tasks be distributed among several of the faithful rather than having a single member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone…

The document actually says that it is preferable.
It will be preferable, moreover, when both a Priest and a Deacon are absent, that the various parts be distributed among several faithful rather than having a single lay member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone.
The decision rests with the pastor in that circumstance or with the person tasked with the Communion Service. In actuality, what is preferable may not be practical or achievable.

In any event, given that this is a diocesan wide occurrence, I would presume that the deacons will be largely seeing to the Communion Services in the many various parishes since the task would properly first fall to them.

 

[zab]

This is what the original poster said:
Our diocese pastors will be at a retreat this week so most parishes will have simply a communion service. Besides the obvious absence of the pastor, what can we expect to see?
This was the response you gave:
You should expect that there will not be a “Communion Service” on a weekday in the absence of the priests, especially if the priest will return on the prceeding or following Sunday.
Which is why I said that your response was a misapplication of Redemptionis sacramentum as the passage you cited was addressing an entirely different issue. The original poster has already stated that most parishes in her diocese are having Communion Services as the response to the priests mandated absence.

The document actually says that it is preferable.
It will be preferable, moreover, when both a Priest and a Deacon are absent, that the various parts be distributed among several faithful rather than having a single lay member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone.
The decision rests with the pastor in that circumstance or with the person tasked with the Communion Service. In actuality, what is preferable may not be practical or achievable.

In any event, given that this is a diocesan wide occurrence, I would presume that the deacons will be largely seeing to the Communion Services in the many various parishes since the task would properly first fall to them.

I know what I wrote and I stand by it. I have not disagreed with anything that is in the document. The word “preferable” is even in the quote that I posted. I gave a link to the document itself. The OP stated what happens in “most parishes” but did not state for certain what would be taking place in his/her parish. (I don’t that that the OP is a she, maybe you do.) Because I wrote that one should not “expect” to have a Communion Service when the priest is absent does not automatically mean that one should never occur. However, as the document reads, it is something that should not be easily granted. I do take that to mean what it says without rejecting the authority of the bishop.

In response to the OP’s inquiry of “What can we expect to see?” I gave the example of what is done in our parish when our priests go on retreat.

 

[zab]

I would like to add that the quoting of this passage from Redemptionis sacramentum in this context is inappropriate and the conclusion that there should be no Communion service in the circumstance of this thread is an incorrect understanding of this document and the other norms governing distribution of Holy Communion outside Mass.

The document actually says that it is preferable.
It will be preferable, moreover, when both a Priest and a Deacon are absent, that the various parts be distributed among several faithful rather than having a single lay member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone.
The decision rests with the pastor in that circumstance or with the person tasked with the Communion Service. In actuality, what is preferable may not be practical or achievable.

You should expect that there will not be a “Communion Service” on a weekday in the absence of the priests, especially if the priest will return on the prceeding or following Sunday.
The Following from ** Redeptionis Sacramentum**:[vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter VII](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...0423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter VII)

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday.

In our parish, when Father is on retreat (or vacation) the pastor usually arranges for one of the retired priests in the diocese (or occassionally when available Navy chaplains) to fill in. On those rare occasions when Father is gone and no replacement can be found, our Deacon leads us in the Liturgy of the Word with Benediction. And this is the usual Monday Service on Father’s day off.

[165] It will be preferable, moreover, when both a Priest and a Deacon are absent, that the various parts be distributed among several faithful rather than having a single lay member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone.** Nor is it ever appropriate to refer to any member of the lay faithful as “presiding” over the celebration**.

 

[zab]

I just want to say that when a poster says something along the lines of “Most parishes in the diocese will be doing Communion Services” or some other general characterization like this , I have to wonder how the average parishioner knows what is going on in most parishes. I certainly don’t.