Communion Under Both Species

[ConstantineTG]

I think Rome should just reinstitute minor orders and then have subdeacons distribute Communion when necessary. The problem is there is so much informality in today’s “ministries” as opposed to the orders of the past. Having them as minor orders also reminds us that such tasks and duties are still a calling from God, not a personal right.

 

[jwinch2]

I forgot where it was stated that only a priest may give via intinction. But it is written plainly somewhere, perhaps the GIRM (I won’t search for it, too lazy ) but it is written somewhere. So someone who has the authority to overturn that piece of legislation needs to do so. Not sure if a Local Ordinary would suffice, or an Episcopal Conference, or does it have to be the Vatican.

I guess with more Permanent Deacons coming, it might be time to lift that prohibition.

I’m not sure either who would have that authority, or where it is written. With a shortage of priests but many men feeling a call towards the deaconate, that might be an elegant solution. Perhaps there is something I am missing.

 

[Brendan]

The Lay Instituted Ministry of Acolyte is for, as the name implies, lay people. An installed Acolyte is an ORDINARY minister of communion, and done by a lay person, not a cleric.

An instituted Acolyte is still an EMHC. The only Ordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are Bishops, Priests and Deacons. Even a SubDeacon (and there are a few of those, we have a Chaldean Subdeacon in our parish), is an EMHC, even though they too are clerics.

GIRM 162

. The priest may be assisted in the distribution of Communion by other priests who happen to be present. If such priests are not present and there is a very large number of communicants, the priest may call upon extraordinary ministers to assist him, e.g…, duly instituted acolytes or even other faithful who have been deputed for this purpose. In case of necessity, the priest may depute suitable faithful for this single occasion.

 

[ConstantineTG]

An instituted Acolyte is still an EMHC. The only Ordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are Bishops, Priests and Deacons. Even a SubDeacon (and there are a few of those, we have a Chaldean Subdeacon in our parish), is an EMHC, even though they too are clerics.

Better an ordained minister than not, even though it is minor orders.

 

[Brendan]

Better an ordained minister than not, even though it is minor orders.

I agree. The Chaldean SubDeacon is the only EMHC our parish regularly uses. The other ones are the seminarians from our parish who have been Instituted as Acolytes. Those men are under instructions to help distribute Holy Communion whenever possible.

So we make allowances for them as circumstances allow, such as when one of the clerics is not in attendance.

 

[jwinch2]

Better an ordained minister than not, even though it is minor orders.

Agreed. I would have zero issue at ordaining more men to the minor order of acolyte, and having them assist as necessary, with the distribution of Holy Communion.

 

[Brendan]

Agreed. I would have zero issue at ordaining more men to the minor order of acolyte, and having them assist as necessary, with the distribution of Holy Communion.

Or, as a priest friend of mine tells the EMHC’s in his parish “Every prayer for Vocations is a prayer that your ministry will end”

 

[jwinch2]

Or, as a priest friend of mine tells the EMHC’s in his parish “Every prayer for Vocations is a prayer that your ministry will end”

Even with many more priests, I see it as highly unlikely that this will go away without other changes. Parishes are now so large that most will have far more people than one priest can handle by himself. So, unless they are going to tear down all of these mega parishes they have built and go back to small ones, or put three priests and three deacons at every Mass, the problem will still exist.

Regardless, we need the vocations, that is for sure.

 

[Brendan]

Even with many more priests, I see it as highly unlikely that this will go away without other changes. Parishes are now so large that most will have far more people than one priest can handle by himself. So, unless they are going to tear down all of these mega parishes they have built and go back to small ones, or put three priests and three deacons at every Mass, the problem will still exist.

Regardless, we need the vocations, that is for sure.

No, we have a parish of about 1,000 families and seat about 1200-1500 at our main Masses.

Holy Communion is offered intincted by our two priests at each Mass. For the larger Masses, our Deacon and SubDeacon will assist with Holy Communion in the species of bread. The SubDeacon will go around the nave with an altar boy (w paten) to offer Communion to those elderly or handicapped who cannot come forward on their own. He will then proceed to the cry room to offer Holy Communion there.

Holy Communion is otherwise offered at the altar rail. It takes about 15 min for everyone to receive.

And yes, three-four priests plus a few Deacons at Mass really IS the goal

 

[O_Moriah]

An instituted Acolyte is still an EMHC. The only Ordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are Bishops, Priests and Deacons. Even a SubDeacon (and there are a few of those, we have a Chaldean Subdeacon in our parish), is an EMHC, even though they too are clerics.

. The priest may be assisted in the distribution of Communion by other priests who happen to be present. If such priests are not present and there is a very large number of communicants, the priest may call upon extraordinary ministers to assist him, e.g…, duly instituted acolytes or even other faithful who have been deputed for this purpose. In case of necessity, the priest may depute suitable faithful for this single occasion.

Hmmm… you’re right.

MINISTERIA QUAEDAM
Pope Paul VI

Apostolic Letter given Motu Proprio:
On first tonsure, minor orders, and the subdiaconate
6. The acolyte is appointed in order to aid the deacon and to minister to the priest. It is his duty therefore to attend to the service of the altar and to assist the deacon and the priest in liturgical celebrations, especially in the celebration of Mass; he is also to distribute communion as a special minister when the ministers spoken of in the Codex Iuris Canonici can. 845 are not available or are prevented by ill health, age, or another pastoral ministry from performing this function, or when the number of communicants is so great that the celebration of Mass would be unduly prolonged. In the same extraordinary circumstances an acolyte may be entrusted with publicly exposing the blessed sacrament for adoration by the faithful and afterward replacing it, but not with blessing the people.

We see here the ministry of the Instituted Lay Acolyte as a special minister of Holy Communion. It then talks about what they can do in extraordinary situations.

This language of a special minister was preserved in GIRM 1972:

III. SPECIAL MINISTRIES

1. The acolyte is instituted to serve at the altar and to assist the priest and deacon. In particular it is for him to prepare the altar and the vessels and, as a special minister of the eucharist, to give communion to the faithful.

And now the new GIRM uses the term extraordinary minister. So, I’m am wrong about the current standing of Instituted Acolytes. I’m sure there’s a good debate here whether this is a change or a clarification.

But then again, with this change, there are going to be very many bishops and seminaries wrong about this since they have historically treated seminarian Acolytes as ordinary ministers of the Eucharist.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Agreed. I would have zero issue at ordaining more men to the minor order of acolyte, and having them assist as necessary, with the distribution of Holy Communion.

Minor nitpick, but acolytes are installed/instituted, not ordained.

 

[Phemie]

We don’t have EMHCs in our Diocese - we have Acolytes who help with Communion - I like it this way. I believe more Diocese’ and parishes should do this.

Acolytes ARE EMHCs.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Or, as a priest friend of mine tells the EMHC’s in his parish “Every prayer for Vocations is a prayer that your ministry will end”

I don’t have the problem with EMHC’s that some people on this forumn have.

Having said that…

What’s wrong with a prayer for vocations…even knowing that my ministry as an EMHC will end:shrug: I would love it if I had to quit because we had more priest and deacons.

So…in the meantime…I will pray for vocations

AND continue to serve until that prayer is answered.

 

[centurionguard]

Minor nitpick, but acolytes are installed/instituted, not ordained.

I think its a common mistake amongst by a number of Catholics to bring a Catholic ordained Deacon to the level of an EMHC. Or is it that some EMHC’s have forgotten the humble state of their service.

 

[Brendan]

But then again, with this change, there are going to be very many bishops and seminaries wrong about this since they have historically treated seminarian Acolytes as ordinary ministers of the Eucharist.

As I mentioned in my post above, that is not the case in my diocese. The seminarian Acolytes serve only where there is not a cleric to fulfill the role.

All the clerics will serve, and only if there is a shortage will one of the seminarians (who might be home for the summer, or for the weekend) will step in.

They will serve as Instituted Readers primarily, taking over for any other lay person.

 

[Brendan]

Minor nitpick, but acolytes are installed/instituted, not ordained.

To nitpick your nitpick ( ) , Acolytes ARE ordained in the Eastern Catholic Churches, and some of the religious orders have Papal Permission to ordain men into the minor orders.

They are ordained, but have not received the Sacrament of Holy Orders, but are entered into the clerical state.

So yes, some Acolytes ARE ordained, and are clerics, just very few of those in the Roman Rite

 

[Phemie]

Hmmm… you’re right.

We see here the ministry of the Instituted Lay Acolyte as a special minister of Holy Communion. It then talks about what they can do in extraordinary situations.

This language of a special minister was preserved in GIRM 1972:

And now the new GIRM uses the term extraordinary minister. So, I’m am wrong about the current standing of Instituted Acolytes. I’m sure there’s a good debate here whether this is a change or a clarification.

But then again, with this change, there are going to be very many bishops and seminaries wrong about this since they have historically treated seminarian Acolytes as ordinary ministers of the Eucharist.

The language you see, “Special Minister”, stems from the original English translation of Immensae Caritatis in which EMHCs were called “Special Ministers of the Eucharist”, something which was decried in future documents.

OTOH, Acolytes are by virtue of their institution, the first in line to act as EMHCs, which may be why you get the impression that they are treated as Ordinary ministers of Communion.

 

[centurionguard]

To nitpick your nitpick ( ) , Acolytes ARE ordained in the Eastern Catholic Churches, and some of the religious orders have Papal Permission to ordain men into the minor orders.

They are ordained, but have not received the Sacrament of Holy Orders, but are entered into the clerical state.

So yes, some Acolytes ARE ordained, and are clerics, just very few of those in the Roman Rite

Ordained Acolytes belonging to the Minor Orders as compared to the Major Ordained Orders of a Bishop, Priest and Deacon. Lay Lectors of Scripture reading were once know as Acolytes though not ordained in the Roman Rite.

 

[R_C]

Or, as a priest friend of mine tells the EMHC’s in his parish “Every prayer for Vocations is a prayer that your ministry will end”

 

[R_C]

Acolytes ARE EMHCs.

I thought the term “accolyte” (not found in the GIRM as far as I could see) was reserved for the Extraordinary Form (I’m speaking only of the Roman Rite here), and thus an accolyte could not be an EMHC since there is no such thing in the EF. Am I mistaken?