Communion Under Both Species

[YoungTradCath]

To nitpick your nitpick ( ) , Acolytes ARE ordained in the Eastern Catholic Churches, and some of the religious orders have Papal Permission to ordain men into the minor orders.

They are ordained, but have not received the Sacrament of Holy Orders, but are entered into the clerical state.

So yes, some Acolytes ARE ordained, and are clerics, just very few of those in the Roman Rite

To nitpick your nitpick of my nitpick, no one in the Latin Church receives the clerical state except those who possess at least the diaconal order. I have no idea about the Eastern Churches or the various religious orders.

 

[superamazingman]

I forgot where it was stated that only a priest may give via intinction. But it is written plainly somewhere, perhaps the GIRM (I won’t search for it, too lazy ) but it is written somewhere. So someone who has the authority to overturn that piece of legislation needs to do so. Not sure if a Local Ordinary would suffice, or an Episcopal Conference, or does it have to be the Vatican.

I guess with more Permanent Deacons coming, it might be time to lift that prohibition.

It’s in Redemptonis Sacramentum.

 

[superamazingman]

When there are 800 souls seated in a suburban mega church but only one priest (a parish I was in for a while), then there’s a bigger problem than offering the Cup. That’s one person to communicate 800 people. And if anyone suggests it’s OK to have EMHCs for the Consecrated Bread, but not for the Precious Blood, then I will call shenanigans and point out this isn’t about EMHCs at all, but about offering the Cup. Let’s make sure we’re being honest about what our presenting concern is.

That’s not consistent. There is a difference because the precious blood, according to vatican II and the other governing documents, is not necessarily expected to be distributed at every Mass that the precious body is distributed. Therefore it IS ok to have EMHCs for precious body, but not for precious blood. Anyways, if you are going to use EMHCs for precious blood, that would often result in using twice the number of EMHCs as would be otherwise needed.

What is there to call shenanigans on?

But even that being said, Vatican II was quite clear that it is not necessary to receive the precious blood, so if “this” is about offering the “cup,” then there’s nothing wrong with that either.

 

[superamazingman]

Or, as a priest friend of mine tells the EMHC’s in his parish “Every prayer for Vocations is a prayer that your ministry will end”

Redemptionis Sacramentum:

1. …] Furthermore, when recourse is had out of necessity to the functions of extraordinary ministers, special urgent prayers of intercession should be multiplied that the Lord may soon send a Priest for the service of the community and raise up an abundance of vocations to sacred Orders.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Even with many more priests, I see it as highly unlikely that this will go away without other changes. Parishes are now so large that most will have far more people than one priest can handle by himself. So, unless they are going to tear down all of these mega parishes they have built and go back to small ones, or put three priests and three deacons at every Mass, the problem will still exist.

Regardless, we need the vocations, that is for sure.

Well we have 3 priests and 2 deacons assigned to our parish, and another priest in residence. However, with 5000 families in the parish (mega for sure), we still use EMHCs because not every clergy is available for every Mass.

We do not offer the Precious Blood at any Masses. It would cause serious traffic jams because of the layout of the church and the fear of spilling the Precious Blood in those circumstances is too high.

There are two other large parishes within 10 miles of this parish. They also use EMHCs. I guess we have the proverbial embarrasment of riches in the number of Catholic families in the area!

 

[Brendan]

To nitpick your nitpick of my nitpick, no one in the Latin Church receives the clerical state except those who possess at least the diaconal order. I have no idea about the Eastern Churches or the various religious orders.

In the Eastern Churches, and in a few Roman religious orders, the clerical state is entered when one is tonsured and ordained to the Minor Order of Porter. An ordained Reader (or Acolyte) in such a religious order is a cleric, even if they have not yet (or will) receive Holy Orders.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I personally am getting a little tired of people not in authority wanting to decide what is best for others as far as Church discipline goes, and also underestimating the intelligence and sincerity of their fellow Catholics.

There is no reason to assume that most Catholics who practice their faith do not believe that the host contains the entire Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity just because they prefer to take the Blood when offered to them. Show us proof of this assumption. Provide us with the proof. Every single Catholic I know who attends Mass regularly knows this. Why should we average church attending Catholics be deprived of the Precious Blood because some people don’t like the use of EMHC’s? I know full well that the Eucharist is complete with the host only, but I prefer the fuller sign when I am able to take it, and have every right to it. My Bishop and Pastor have allowed it, the Church has said it is a fuller sign and permits it, the case is closed. One should never presume that their judgment is better than the Church’s–and that is exactly what is going on here, even though people deny it. The person in charge is the local Bishop, not some members of CAF.

It is very disheartening to read these forums and read the low opinions many people who frequent these forums have of their fellow Catholics, the average person in the pews, and also of the clergy. It also leaves a very bad impression on lurkers and those who are fence-sitting. Is this how we want to present ourselves to the world?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with receiving the Eucharist under both species, and there is nothing wrong with having enough people to distribute it under both species, even if it means using enough EMHC’s to do it in a timely and orderly fashion. The Church has spoken, they have given the guidelines. And nobody should even be presuming that the EMHC’s are just seeking attention, or playing the priest, or are otherwise insincere about their duties or are motivated by anything other than the love of Christ and wanting to serve Him in the Church.

 

[jwinch2]

To nitpick your nitpick ( ) , Acolytes ARE ordained in the Eastern Catholic Churches, and some of the religious orders have Papal Permission to ordain men into the minor orders.

They are ordained, but have not received the Sacrament of Holy Orders, but are entered into the clerical state.

So yes, some Acolytes ARE ordained, and are clerics, just very few of those in the Roman Rite

To my understanding, in the Roman Church, some are, some are not. Or perhaps it would be better to say, some have been, some have not been.

Regardless, it is understood that they are installed in some way to minor orders, and are probably more well trained to assist in the distribution of Holy Communion then the average EMHC is. That is really the issue at hand.

 

[Sirach2]

My Bishop and Pastor have allowed it, the Church has said it is a fuller sign and permits it, the case is closed. One should never presume that their judgment is better than the Church’s–and that is exactly what is going on here, even though people deny it. The person in charge is the local Bishop, not some members of CAF.

It is very disheartening to read these forums and read the low opinions many people who frequent these forums have of their fellow Catholics, the average person in the pews, and also of the clergy. It also leaves a very bad impression on lurkers and those who are fence-sitting. Is this how we want to present ourselves to the world?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with receiving the Eucharist under both species, and there is nothing wrong with having enough people to distribute it under both species, even if it means using enough EMHC’s to do it in a timely and orderly fashion. The Church has spoken, they have given the guidelines. And nobody should even be presuming that the EMHC’s are just seeking attention, or playing the priest, or are otherwise insincere about their duties or are motivated by anything other than the love of Christ and wanting to serve Him in the Church.

[sign] Amen! Well said! [/sign]