Communion without Confession

[just_me_1]

sorry to jump in here with a question from left field, but since we’re on the subject, what about being obligated to work during mass? (a job where animals depend on you to be there to feed/doctor them every day?) I work every other weekend and try, weather and time permitting to go on saturday nights on the weekends I work but that church is 50 miles away (my local parish only offers a sunday AM mass) and costly to drive and inconvenient so I miss some too… I should go to confession too before receiving communion when I can’t make it?

I never considered missing mass due to work or another reason aside from “I don’t feel like it” a mortal sin… seems I have recieved alot of communion I shouldn’t have!

 

[caudy]

It was not you who opened the can of worms - you’ve done everything exactly right, up to now.

Sorry for the off-topic stuff!

Hey, good for you. And I’m sorry for the tone here as well. Eight months ago I was in the same shoes as you…learning more about the Catholic faith. I used to miss mass quite a bit but I really enjoy going every week. I’ve also made it a practice to pray the rosary at least 3 times per week. Amazingly that has made the BIGGEST change in my life, reducing or eliminating many of the temptations and vices that were plaguing me.

Look, we can go around and around on debating with Paul. Obviously he is going to take a stance contrary to the catechism of our Church. Let’s look at it this way: If you really can’t except the teachings of the church then find a new religion there are plenty out there. Personally I don’t think the Catholic church is that demanding! All these “rules” only help to make us better people so we can hopefully face God some day.

 

[Paul_Brann]

Yes you are, you’re specifically saying that I’m in a state of Mortal sin. And, of course, a plenary indulgence doesn’t give licence to sin and still expect a place in heaven, and obviously it’s not possible to obtain a plenary indulgence whilst in a state of Mortal sin, but who is to say that that is where I’m at, or anyone else for that matter. We may even see Adolph Hitler in heaven…who’s to say!
How can anyone other than God judge me as being in a state of grace or in a state of mortal sin?
And, to maintain the thread, you’re saying that I’m in a state of mortal sin because I do not go to Mass every Sunday and I’m willfully blind to my sins.
Judge not lest you be judged springs to mind, or as I said several moments ago: “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”
I feel that you all want to stone me.
Paul Brann

 

[jmcrae]

sorry to jump in here with a question from left field, but since we’re on the subject, what about being obligated to work during mass? (a job where animals depend on you to be there to feed/doctor them every day?)

No, since the animals in your care depend on you to be there for them. This is definitely a valid reason to miss Mass, since this is the type of work where it is not possible to schedule a day off from it, just like medical and emergency workers.

I never considered missing mass due to work or another reason aside from “I don’t feel like it” a mortal sin… seems I have recieved alot of communion I shouldn’t have!

Don’t worry - in your case there is no sin. But if you feel the need for more reassurance, you could talk to a Confessor and ask him to give you a personal dispensation.

 

[caudy]

sorry to jump in here with a question from left field, but since we’re on the subject, what about being obligated to work during mass? (a job where animals depend on you to be there to feed/doctor them every day?) I work every other weekend and try, weather and time permitting to go on saturday nights on the weekends I work but that church is 50 miles away (my local parish only offers a sunday AM mass) and costly to drive and inconvenient so I miss some too… I should go to confession too before receiving communion when I can’t make it?

I never considered missing mass due to work or another reason aside from “I don’t feel like it” a mortal sin… seems I have recieved alot of communion I shouldn’t have!

My understanding is that you are NOT commiting a sin missing mass. You are obviously making an effort to go to mass when you are not working. My sister is a nurse and is required to work some weekends (12hr Sat and 12hr Sunday).

Again, making the choice to not go to mass when sitting at home surfing the internet is not ok.

 

[FM927]

Just out of curiosity I would like to know where does “FREE WIIL”
fit into all of the church’s teachings?
I mean if we MUST obey and follow everything the church says, doesn’t that nullify our FREE WILL?
Just because one Sunday I do not feel up to going to church, ((MY CHOICE) but from home I pray for God to forgive me and my prayer is from my heart, does that mean that God is not going to forgive me?

Everyone on this site is so prompt in making others who possibly express a slightly different point of view, feel as if they are the worst sinners in the world.

There is never a kind word for the people that do not see eye to eye with the rest.

I can’t believe how Caudy actually suggested that Paul Brann maybe is not catholic after all but is really Protestant.

How can someone make that call? No one really knows the true relationship that eachone of us has with God.

As Paul said " Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
well it seems to me that eveyone on this board although is going to say otherwise and not admit it, talks as if “they are without sin”

.

 

[caudy]

Just out of curiosity I would like to know where does “FREE WIIL”
fit into all of the church’s teachings?
I mean if we MUST obey and follow everything the church says, doesn’t that nullify our FREE WILL?
Just because one Sunday I do not feel up to going to church, ((MY CHOICE) but from home I pray for God to forgive me and my prayer is from my heart, does that mean that God is not going to forgive me?

Everyone on this site is so prompt in making others who possibly express a slightly different point of view, feel as if they are the worst sinners in the world.

There is never a kind word for the people that do not see eye to eye with the rest.

I can’t believe how Caudy actually suggested that Paul Brann maybe is not catholic after all but is really Protestant.

How can someone make that call? No one really knows the true relationship that eachone of us has with God.

As Paul said " Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
well it seems to me that eveyone on this board although is going to say otherwise and not admit it, talks as if “they are without sin”

.

I’m sorry for my tone, it should not be my position to suggest that someone is not who they claim to be. I am certainly not without sin and will not be throwing any stones. :blackeye:

Paul just seemed to be quoting a lot of Luther and the reformation so I wondered if he was perhaps a protestant in disguise. You are correct I do not know the true relationship anyone has with God.

Please keep in mind this is a Catholic Theology Forum. Do you not want to fully understand the catholic teachings? All anyone has been trying to do is DEFEND those teachings especially in regards to the question on keeping the sabbath holy and attending mass.

If anyone reading this feels it is ok to miss mass on Sunday because they feel like it go ahead. If anyone reading this feels that it is not ok to miss mass but acceptable to pray to God afterwords for forgiveness w/out going to confession…go ahead. I will not think bad of you and it is not my position to judge you.

If you truely believe your own rules are acceptable to God then great I’m happy for you. I don’t know your relationshiip with HIM.

However, I will stick to Church doctrine per the catechism as I understand it. If someone with more knowledge on the Church and its doctrine were to correct me on something I misunderstood, I WOULD BE OPEN TO THEIR ADVICE. I personally want to follow the Catholic faith to the best of my ability and I will not pick and choose which doctrine to follow, no matter how hard it is.

Noone ever said being a Catholic was supposed to be easy. But if we’re allowed to make our own rules to suit our needs then we need to take a closer look at ourselves.

 

[LilyM]

Just out of curiosity I would like to know where does “FREE WIIL”
fit into all of the church’s teachings?
I mean if we MUST obey and follow everything the church says, doesn’t that nullify our FREE WILL?
Just because one Sunday I do not feel up to going to church, ((MY CHOICE) but from home I pray for God to forgive me and my prayer is from my heart, does that mean that God is not going to forgive me?

Everyone on this site is so prompt in making others who possibly express a slightly different point of view, feel as if they are the worst sinners in the world.

There is never a kind word for the people that do not see eye to eye with the rest.

Let’s draw an analogy. If I get a gadget from the hardware store, I’m certainly free to ignore the instruction manual and try to use it any old way I see fit. If I know the guys who WROTE the instruction manual for that gadget, as well as the inventor, I’m free to ignore them if THEY try to tell me what the manual says and how the gadget should be used, and go by my own ideas again.

But how likely is it that I can do better WITHOUT reading the manual and listening to the guys who invented the gadget and wrote the manual? In fact how likely is it that I’ll even get the thing working, and not ruin it or blow it up?

If you substitute
the sacraments (including confession and the Eucharist) for the gadget
the Bible (and documents of the Church) for the instruction manual,
the Church (whose members wrote the Bible and who determined its table of contents) for the manual writers
and God for the inventor

you’ll see where I’m coming from.

 

[Paul_Brann]

David was hungry and ate the shew bread…the zealots condemned him, but what did Jesus say?
I’m hungry, hungry for God and a loving relationship with my maker and saviour and I eat the shew bread, possibly in an unworthy manner like David.
I’m not questioning the doctrine of the Catholic Church, I’m not deliberately throwing away the instruction book, but I’m challenging your authority to tell a man to stay away from the sacrament of Holy Communion. I’m challenging your authority to judge me a ‘non-Catholic’ and filled with Mortal Sin.
The assumptions that I sit at home surfing the internet instead of going to Mass (I did, in fact go last night to the 6pm which just happened to be a sung High Mass in Latin to the old rite and I received communion! Mea culpa), and all the other petty asides and nasty judgements show up the real character of the responders.
Oh Martha, Martha! Jesus cried.
God so loved the world that He sent His only son to die for me.
Paul Brann

 

[Paul_Brann]

To be more specific, for the die-hards and doubters, if I can say:“Domine, non sum dignus, ut intres sub tectum meum: sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea” with true humility and genuine sorrow, how can my God refuse me? Who are you to say that I’m incapable of genuine remorse, sorrow and make a genuine resolve to never to sin again? Who are you, Faith warrior, to say that I may not be a heratic but I’m probably in a state of Mortal Sin? Can you see inside my soul? Are you truely that inspired by the Holy Spirit that you can do God’s job for Him.
Love one another, keep my commandments, but love one another.
Jesus never condemned anyone for not going to the temple, but He condemned the chief priests who made impossible rules for the flock. He condemned their hardness of hearts. He even allowed divorce because their hearts were so hard and difficult to teach.
Paul Brann (a newcomer)

 

[LilyM]

He even allowed divorce because their hearts were so hard and difficult to teach.
Paul Brann (a newcomer)

Think He can’t refuse you or anybody? Think again. 'When that day comes many will say to Me 'Lord, Lord … I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’" Sounds like He’s got a particularly unsoft spot for those who scoff at the law, as well.

And you do know that presuming on God’s mercy (taking it for granted) is a sin, do you not?

Think His main focus was on being a lawbreaker and rebel? Au contraire. He had the deepest respect, for the most part, for the law. Which is why He told His apostles to OBEY the commands of the Pharisees even though He disapproved of many things they did. And it’s also why He sent all those lepers that He cured straight to the priests so that they could be pronounced ritually clean - as the law required.

As for the above comment, you have it entirely backwards. MOSES allowed divorce. Jesus did not condone his doing so, nor did He permit divorce Himself. Quite the opposite - ‘I say to you whoever divorces his wife … causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery’. (Matt. 5:32)

 

[Paul_Brann]

I am Paul Branns adopted daughter, Stephanie,
and although not a hard line catholic myself, i feel i am moved to reply to some of the comments that have been forwarded to Paul… Catholic as you all undoutedly know means ‘universal’, must i point out that this means the church, by its very name, is meant to accept and love all of God’s creatures? Even if - and i am aware this is a struggle - they disagree or have different opionions to your own.
The judgemental tone of this forum fills me with a deep sense of shame. I am but a child - barely 18, and without mother or father. Paul has taken me under his wing, and is the most spiritual (if stubbourn man) you could wish to meet. Although he would not want to say it, some of the attacks that have been made to him (accusing him of being a protestant for example, merely for making mention of Martin Luther) have caused him great hurt. Although this was not the intention, i beg of you all, Paul included, to think before you antagonise each other. This is a place for discussion of worship and acceptance of our lord, not to discuss the finer points of the Roman opinion.
The patronising undertones make me wince, why is Paul to be considered a dullard? The inference speaks loud and clear. Also, do not think the irony of me condeming your condemnations has been missed. With the illusion at eloquence I am attempting to point out that religion, and yes even Catholism, is subjective. Perhaps we all, like the church, need a devils advocate to still our toungs. Myself included.
I apologise from the bottom of my heart if i have been the cause of any upset, but seeing a loved one in such a state is difficult.

Rant over! please don’t reply, i just needed to vent that particular opinion, and please please accept it is only that. I simply can’t stand the sort of confrontation these sites can provoke. Ironic that i too have been ensnared by it! its a lovely way to meet other people from the catholic community, which can sometimes be hard, so i urge everyone to enjoy it! Don’t worry, you shant hear from me again. I’m his rotweiller at times!

God Bless. steph.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Well, Hi everyone, and thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut,
As I imagined there are some real sticklers here, just as there were in Jesus’ day when it came to the interpretation of ‘The Law’
They, too, used to stand in the front of the congregation and defend their righteousness, but the poor publican stood at the back and just said, “God forgive me, a sinner!” In fact Jesus was quite scathing about the Law makers causing encumberances for genuine faithful people.
It’s the defination of ‘Mortal Sin’ that I challenge, and I ask: Is it a mortal sin not to go to Mass on a Sunday? Surely only God can answer that one.
Paul Brann

He’s answered it: “Remember to Keep Holy the Lord’s Day.”

 

[Elizabeth502]

I am Paul Branns adopted daughter, Stephanie,
and although not a hard line catholic myself, i feel i am moved to reply to some of the comments that have been forwarded to Paul… Catholic as you all undoutedly know means ‘universal’, must i point out that this means the church, by its very name, is meant to accept and love all of God’s creatures?

Stephanie, I haven’t read all the posts on this thread, and I do agree with you on the point of the over-judgmental (and persecutorial) tone of some of the postings on CAF, in general, when they seem to overemphasize doctrinaire allegiance as higher in importance than gospel charity.

However, in this case (on this thread) some posters are engaging in some pretty inaccurate speculations and statements over the matter of Sunday obligation. It’s o.k. to correct with charity, & to do so firmly & swiftly when others could be misled by them. Lots of potential converts and RCIA candidates post and lurk on CAF.

Please understand that as embracing as Jesus was and is, he never embraced transgressions against God’s laws. When he corrected particular segments of his fellow Jews, he was admonishing them for disproportionality & distorted priorities, not for the fact that they were concerned about fidelity to Mosaic Law, Indeed, he was concerned, too – so much so that he went beyond the external requirements and insisted that desires of the heart (intentions, disordered passions, interior malice) were as sinful as the acts themselves. That was a stricter interpretation of Law than was held by the religious authorities he criticized for their lack of charity.

Thank you for posting.

 

[jmcrae]

Steph;

Nobody is trying to be “judgmental.” This site is called “Catholic Answers” and when someone posts an answer to an honest question that is not, in fact, the Catholic Answer to that question, it is really, really important to make sure that the person asking the question understands that any incorrect information that gets posted is not in line with what we as Catholics teach and believe.

Sometimes it comes across sounding harsh, but when it is a matter of clear communication, there is really not a lot of room for soft-pedal “nice” answers that could be taken either way - there is no time for the “gently lead” method, especially in a case where the original asker is making a decision right now about how to behave - it’s really important in a case like this to come straight out and label heresy and false teaching as heresy and false teaching.

This is in no way meant as a judgement on the person who posted the incorrect information, but simply to make it extremely clear to the original person who is looking for correct information, that that particular information is incorrect.

Let’s use an analogy - suppose you are working on your Algebra homework, and you are stuck on a problem. You need the answer in the next few hours because your homework is due this afternoon.

You go to an Algebra Answers forum, and you post your question. One person posts the correct answer, together with the correct formula on how to arrive at that answer.

Then, someone else posts an incorrect (but easier) answer. Would you not feel a bit confused, at that point? Since you actually don’t know which of the two answers you have received is the correct answer.

Would you not actually appreciate someone coming in and making it really clear to you, which answer is correct, and also the reasons why the other answer is incorrect?

Obviously, the person who posted the incorrect answer would be offended, and an argument would break out.

But since you, the original asker, only have a few hours to get the right answer and turn in your homework, you would most likely be grateful for the quick and clear response, so that you can get a good grade on your homework.

That’s why it goes like this, sometimes - for the sake of the person who is asking, so that they are given what they came here for - the correct answer to their question.

 

[Paul_Brann]

God permitted divorce, at that time, through his appointed one Moses, who had a direct line with his creator…hence the 10 commandments. Moses was interpreting Gods message to the Israelites, and at that time divorce was permitted, and of course Jesus said that it wasn’t like that at the begining…Distraction aside, and all the attempts to discredit me, I’m not doubting Gods law, nor the Church’s teaching, but to say that I am in a state of mortal sin because I failed to attend Mass on a Sunday is something that even my confessor would refrain from doing. LilyM, you are something else!
You may well not realise it but, like many, I suffer from bipolar affective disorder; I’m a manic depressive, and have good days, have bad days and sometimes have extraordinary days. Yes I’m mentally ill and I suppose that also affects my relationship with God and the church and others. If I had a broken back and could not move then I would not be expected to go to Mass if it was unrealistic. Because I loose touch with reality sometimes, struggle to see things in a rational way, and even struggle to get out of bed and fail misersably to even do that sometimes, I’m judged as being in a state of Mortal sin, and it is extraordinary just how vitriolic and hugely judgemental some of you zealots can be.
Yes, I shout at God…you’ve only got to read the psalms to see that I’m neither unique nor unusual in that respect, some of them echo my sentiments quite accurately.
And thanks for the words of encouragement from the few real Christians using this site.
Paul Brann

 

[LilyM]

Paul, no-one here would criticise you, or anyone, ever, for missing Mass when their health (be it mental or physical) prevents them going. That was said in the second post on this thread, and I believe repeated several times since.

That being the case, of course we’re not passing judgement on you, and you could’ve easily guessed that. You’re taking a shoe that doesn’t fit you and saying that we told you to wear it when we didn’t.

We are passing judgement rather on people who are perfectly healthy and well able to go to Mass but decide that other things are more important than worshipping God on Sundays as He has commanded us through the Church which He has given the power to bind and loose.

As for divorce - yes, He indirectly permitted that if you want to look at it that way. He also permits an awful lot of things that are contrary to His will and sinful. He permits every single act of evil that people do to each other, and every single sin that leads to people rejecting the salvation which He desires for all of us. These are all things He permits but does not desire.

 

[Seatuck]

Oooh, I seemed to have opened a can of worms here. BTW, I went to 4pm Mass today and did not receive Communion. I wasn’t comfortable receiving knowing that I missed Mass last week through my own fault. So as soon as I’m able, I will confess this sin (among others), and hope to receive Communion next Sunday.

Sorry if I’ve caused any trouble.

In Him,
Bobsey

 

[Tom]

You may well not realise it but, like many, I suffer from bipolar affective disorder; I’m a manic depressive, and have good days, have bad days and sometimes have extraordinary days. Yes I’m mentally ill and I suppose that also affects my relationship with God and the church and others. If I had a broken back and could not move then I would not be expected to go to Mass if it was unrealistic. Because I loose touch with reality sometimes, struggle to see things in a rational way, and even struggle to get out of bed and fail misersably to even do that sometimes, I’m judged as being in a state of Mortal sin, and it is extraordinary just how vitriolic and hugely judgemental some of you zealots can be.

O.K., please read your own words on this forum. You said:

Is not going to Mass just because you don’t want to go to Mass the same as Murder, adultery, or genocide?

You set the stage of missing Mass for no other reason than desire. NOT any physical problem, not any transportation problem, but simply because you didn’t want to. Then you said if you truly love God… well, if you truly love God you don’t arbitrarily decide to skip Mass. You have a physical reason to not attend? Show me where ANYONE here sauid that missing Mass for a physical reason was a sin! It isn’t! I miss Mass every other week, I work shift work, 14 hours per day every other Sunday. It’s not a sin.

 

[Ilroy]

I’m in the “not too sure but trusting the forgiveness of God camp”
Paul Brann

Wrong again…you seem more to be in the Presuming on the Mercy of God camp…there’s a big difference, and the difference can be damning.
Those here who have tried to correct you have simply been trying to help you along the difficult journey we are all on. Christ said to take up your cross and follow Him…sitting back and doing as you please doesn’t seem to fit into following that command…