Communion without priest?

[YADA]

YES,

I am aware of the

Church’s ritual Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist Outside Mass.

Very famiiar with it…and still a commnion service should “Properly” not look or feel like “Mass” without the consecration…this from my formation director.

It is sad when we regularly have parishes with no resident priest.

We were instructed that the preference of the Church is to have the Liturgy of the Hours with Communion rather than a psuedo Mass look alike service…the hardship is that parish communities [as a whole - there are always exceptions] are not familiar enough with the Liturgy of the Hours [especially Morning and Evening Prayer] to offer that in the absence of the Priest.

We need to pray for preistly vocations and then be willing to encourage our own sons, grandsons, brothers, nephews to discern whether God is calling them to the priesthood.

I know people who decry the lack of priests [or having priests from foriegn countries they can’t understand]. But these same people want some one elses son to become priest not their son, they want grand children or they want their son to be a doctor or lawyer.

 

[THurifer2]

I disagree. Jesus is forever and eternally sacrificed for us, as in Revelation, there was a lamb, that appeared to have been slain. So, wherever Jesus is sacramentally present, the eternal and perpetual sacrifice on Calvary is present.

I believe that is a contradiction from the Catholic Encyclopedia excerpt below.

THe host contains the glorified risen christ which is the resultant product of the Mass the sacrifice of Christ must somehow result in a kenosis, not in a glorification, since this latter is at most the object of the sacrifice, not the sacrifice itself;

 

[japhy]

The readings and homily were all done by a middle-aged lady.

The only people allowed to give homilies are bishops, priests, and deacons.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Hmm.

So, I still have no idea what the difference is. Anyone? Am I just being dense? One person said Christ’s sacrifice is not present, one person said it is, and one person said they’re not even close.

A Communion service allows a person to receive the Blessed Sacrament outside of Mass.

The Mass is the most perfect form of prayer and worship. We are made present at the foot of Christ’s Cross outside of time. We witness the Sacrifice He made for us and we re-enact the Last Supper with the actual words of Christspoken by the priest acting in the person of Christ, making Christ present in the Blessed Sacrament before our eyes. The Mass is the uniting of Heaven and earth, the Communion of Saints together. We also receive Christ in the Blessed Sacrament in Holy Communion.

 

[Yes]

…We were instructed that the preference of the Church is to have the Liturgy of the Hours with Communion rather than a psuedo Mass look alike service…

The Church has an approved ritual for communion services – Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist Outside Mass. You may have been instructed differently at a local level, but that does not mean that the instructions you received were valid, nor do they in any way invalidate the aformentioned Church approved ritual.

 

[YADA]

I do not believe that I said it was invalidated…Perhaps the movement is in a different direction, as we were also receiving instruction in the GIRM before the reforms were actually being introduced at the parish level…I am fully aware of what the Ritual Book says and the general practice in the parish…

That said, the OP concerns is probably why the Curch would prefer that Communion Services not look like a Mass…

And the Liturgy of the Hours is an official ‘work’ of the Church and officially its ‘prayer’

It is sad that so few laity are familiar with the Liturgy of the Hours. Most of the laity can pray a Rosary, even those who rarely participate in this ‘personal’ devotion. They should be more familiar with the Liturgy of the Hours [IMHO].

And for the record my masters degree and formation instruction was orthodox, approved by the diocese, and in no way heretical…like I said, in addition to the Rites and Rituals, we were [and may have been] receiving instruction in the direction the church is going, and the reasons why change [or, in some cases, reversion to previous practice or to correct an imporper practice, etc].

My scripture classes and formation were excellent, so to those on Church history, Liturgy, parish management, etc.

However, with my aologies, I may not always be able to quickly write as concisely, completely and inexhaustably on a topic in this forum as I would like… fiirst of all my typing is not that good or that fast, then it is after all a message board…

 

[John_Lilburne]

In the “Directory for Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest” dated 2 June 1988, the Congregation for Divine Worship has:
“33. Particularly to be kept in mind is the possibility of celebration some part of the liturgy of the hours, for example, morning prayer or evening prayer, during which the Sunday readings of the current year can be inserted. For “when the people are invited to the liturgy of the hours and come together in unity of heart and voice, they show forth the Church in its celebration of the mystery of Christ.” [footnote 31: General Instruction of the Liturgy of the Hours, no. 22]. At the end of such a celebration communion may be given (see no. 46).”

“46. For the communion rite the provisions given in The Roman Ritual for communion outside Mass are to be observed. [footnote 38: See The Roman Ritual, Holy Communion and Worship of the Eucharist outside Mass, ch. 1]. The faithful are to be frequently reminded that even when they receive communion outside Mass they are united to the eucharistic sacrifice.”

The Directory ends with saying it was “approved and confirmed by Pope John Paul II, who also ordered its publication.”

In the 1973 liturgical book “Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist Outside of Mass” there is no description of combining the distribution of Communion with the Liturgy of the Hours. The ceremony is similar to the Mass:
Greeting,
Penitential Rite
Celebration of the Word of God
Lord’s Prayer
Sign of Peace
“This is the Lamb of God …”

Here is the description from the book of the “Celebration of the Word of God”:
“29. The Liturgy of the Word now takes place as at Mass. Texts are chosen for the occasion either from the Mass of the day or from the votive Masses of the Holy Eucharist or the Precious Blood, the readings from which are in the Lectionary. A list of these passages can be found in nos. 113-153 of this Ritual. The Lectionary offers a wide range of readings which may be drawn upon for particular needs, such as the votive Mass of the Sacred Heart. See nos. 154-158 below.
There may be one or more readings, the first being followed by a psalm or some other chant or by a period of silent prayer.
The celebration of the word ends with the general intercessions.”

It is nothing like the Liturgy of the Hours.

The General Instruction of the Liturgy of the Hours (n. 93-97) includes ways of joining it with Mass, but not with a Communion Service. It has in n. 12 “The Liturgy of the Hours is in itself an excellent preparation for the fruitful celebration of the Eucharist because it fosters those dispositions necessary, such as faith, hope and love, devotion and a spirit of sacrifice.”

Perhaps this is what was meant by the Directory for Sunday Celebrations, n. 33 “… At the end of such a celebration communion may be given …”. First the Liturgy of the Hours. Then start the ceremony for the distribution of Communion, with its greeting and penitential rite.

The Australian Catholic Bishops Conference issued a document (I think in 2003) called “Sunday Celebrations in the absence of a priest: directives for the dioceses of Australia”. It includes:
“11. The rite of the distribution of holy communion outside Mass may be added to the conclusion of the Liturgy of the Word. It is not usual to add a communion service to the Liturgy of the Hours.”
(Pastoral Handbook for the Dioceses of Australia, National Liturgical Commission, 2004, ISBN 1-875522-14-X, page 21.)

 

[Yes]

I do not believe that I said it was invalidated…Perhaps the movement is in a different direction, as we were also receiving instruction in the GIRM before the reforms were actually being introduced at the parish level…I am fully aware of what the Ritual Book says and the general practice in the parish…

That said, the OP concerns is probably why the Curch would prefer that Communion Services not look like a Mass…

And the Liturgy of the Hours is an official ‘work’ of the Church and officially its ‘prayer’

It is sad that so few laity are familiar with the Liturgy of the Hours. Most of the laity can pray a Rosary, even those who rarely participate in this ‘personal’ devotion. They should be more familiar with the Liturgy of the Hours [IMHO].

And for the record my masters degree and formation instruction was orthodox, approved by the diocese, and in no way heretical…like I said, in addition to the Rites and Rituals, we were [and may have been] receiving instruction in the direction the church is going, and the reasons why change [or, in some cases, reversion to previous practice or to correct an imporper practice, etc].

My scripture classes and formation were excellent, so to those on Church history, Liturgy, parish management, etc.

However, with my aologies, I may not always be able to quickly write as concisely, completely and inexhaustably on a topic in this forum as I would like… fiirst of all my typing is not that good or that fast, then it is after all a message board…

What “movement?” The Church has provided a ritual for communion services, and that’s what should be followed. Your little CV means nothing to me – but the Church’s instructions mean a great deal.

 

[prv]

A lay person or a deacon (or for that matter a priest) may lead a communion service. Only a priest (bishop, presbyter) may celebrate Mass (consecrate the Eucharist).

That being said, Mass has the special advantage of not only having the consecration of the Eucharist, but also the Eucharistic prayers which accompany them. In short, there is nothing unacceptable about the communion service you described as long as the (arch)bishop authorizes it, and as long as the hosts are not simply taken out the unconsecrated altar bread and distributed to the people as the Body of our Lord. In this case, as you describe, it was not. Also, a lay person may give a brief reflection (not a homily) during such a service, though I think one could also possibly read a homily prepared by a cleric (I don’t know if this practice has gone the way of the dinosaur, if permitted at all).

Just know that the Holy Mass is the preferable worship of the Church in which the sacred hosts are offered to the people.

 

[NaturalEnquirer]

OK, new dumb question. What’s the difference between a reflection and a homily? She did call it a reflection, I misquoted as homily. Mea culpa. But I sure couldn’t tell a difference.

 

[prv]

OK, new dumb question. What’s the difference between a reflection and a homily? She did call it a reflection, I misquoted as homily. Mea culpa. But I sure couldn’t tell a difference.

I don’t know the specifics, but I do know that a layperson’s reflection is supposed to be relatively short.

 

[Monica37]

I don’t mean to get something started, but, as far as reflection and homily goes… The last parish I attended, the homily was full of jokes, anecdotes and finally a little moral that tied them all together. The parish I’m in now, the homily is straight forward, quotes from the saints and the Gospel is referred to directly as well as the catechism. That sounds like a homily to me, so I ask with others, what is a reflection and what is a homily? BTW, I have waited sooo long to say this, so bear with me please… I Love my parish!!!:extrahappy: