Communion

[Dokimas]

Dokimas;6112851:

You are missing a HUGE part of Paul’s thoughts on the Eucharist/communion. Hopefully not on purpose:

Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an un-worthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
- 1 Cor 11:27

A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup.
-1 Cor 11:28

For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.
- 1 Corinthians 11:29

Doesn’t sound like simple symbolism to me. Hopefully you can explain this instead of look over it. If it were a simple symbol…why would one have to examine yourself? Couldn’t you just eat a symbol that meant nothing more than a symbol? I think you could…if that is all it was. Not to mention the very fact that Christ’s own disciples left him due to his teaching on the Eucharist/communion. some of them at least They were appalled that he would say such a thing. Yet, Christ did not explain himself further, he stuck by what he said, it was not a parable it was meant as he said it was.

See John 6. 60: "Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?”

John 6. 66: “As a result of this many of his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him”

I’m not sure I missed those verses. A symbol of the Crucifixion of the Lord should not be taken lightly. Remember the so called ‘art’ exhibit that had a crucifix in a jar of urine. Was that offensive? Of course it was. It’s ‘only’ a symbol but what it symbolizes is the ONLY way of salvation given to humans by God.

 

[Teneas]

I don’t understand why non-Catholic Christians seem to think it is a symbol. Is it simply because the word “remembrance”? Is that one word out of the -entire- 6th chapter of John that powerful? It doesn’t make sense to me at all.

Christ clearly said “This is my body” as he broke the bread. He clearly said “This is my blood” as he poured the wine.

As I write this, I will admit I do understand the differences in why we believe what we believe. in Christianity It is because we are human, and we do and believe, what is easiest for us all. We react as any human does.

I pray for us all. All Christians, for war is upon us in the world, and with a split faith, we will not do well. Sure, the Bible tells us all that we will win, but what suffering we will go through until that point, simply because we refuse to move. Both sides are, of course, guilty of it.

As a Catholic, I believe 100% what the Church says is true. It is because of my research, thought, and faith.

As a human, I have many many doubts about it all. Questioning is good for the soul, and draws us closer if we look with open mind and heart.

God bless us all.

yes off topic, but had to be said somewhere

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

QUOTE=Dokimas;6115368]-
He did explain it; He said take communion ‘in remembrance of Me.’​

Paul went on to explain that communion proclaims His death until He returns.​

I find it interesting that catholics believe Mary had to be sinless to have Jesus in her womb, but they believe Jesus enters us sinners in the bread and wine.

]

The problem with your 20Th century interpretation of the biblical understanding of “remembrance” does not equate with what Jesus has just stated in “do this in remembrance of me”. This Hebrew understanding of remembrance is key to understanding the “New and everlasting covenant” of Jesus Christ “In his blood”.

Jesus commands his Apostles and their consecrated successors (see John 17:17- especially vs.20) to renew his covenant in his blood to every people and age until he returns. To renew a divine covenant is to “relive and make present” the divine covenant. The Eucharist is the fulfillment of the Jewish “Passover” feast.

For every Jew renewed God’s covenant by litterally making present in time what their ancestors experienced in the Exodus. God commanded them to remember his covenant and to keep it a “Perpetual sacrifice in his name”. Jesus has done so in his perpetual sacrifice made present in his body, blood, soul and divinity in his blessed sacrament of the Eucharist.

“Remembrance” is to make present God’s covenant, the Hebrew word is “Zakar” from the Old testament which in Hebrew faith is to “recall by making present” (quote by R.L. Wilken) in the remembrance of the covenant. God does not change, Jesus made an eternal reality of the old covenant in his blood, and never contradicts his Father in heaven, but fulfills the divine covenant in his own blood. Which the Catholic church renews this New covenant in Jesus True body, blood sacrifice to every people in every age since the resurrection, who makes himself present in the “anamnesis” of the New Covenant, to all the baptised children of God are the only ones who can partake of the eternal sacrifice who consumes the lamb sacrifice in the presence of our High Priest Jesus Christ. Another law fulfilled in this mystery in the Mass, True presence of Jesus Christ.

 

[Dokimas]

]

The problem with your 20Th century interpretation of the biblical understanding of “remembrance” does not equate with what Jesus has just stated in “do this in remembrance of me”. This Hebrew understanding of remembrance is key to understanding the “New and everlasting covenant” of Jesus Christ “In his blood”.

Jesus commands his Apostles and their consecrated successors (see John 17:17- especially vs.20) to renew his covenant in his blood to every people and age until he returns. To renew a divine covenant is to “relive and make present” the divine covenant. The Eucharist is the fulfillment of the Jewish “Passover” feast.

For every Jew renewed God’s covenant by litterally making present in time what their ancestors experienced in the Exodus. God commanded them to remember his covenant and to keep it a “Perpetual sacrifice in his name”. Jesus has done so in his perpetual sacrifice made present in his body, blood, soul and divinity in his blessed sacrament of the Eucharist.

“Remembrance” is to make present God’s covenant, the Hebrew word is “Zakar” from the Old testament which in Hebrew faith is to “recall by making present” (quote by R.L. Wilken) in the remembrance of the covenant. God does not change, Jesus made an eternal reality of the old covenant in his blood, and never contradicts his Father in heaven, but fulfills the divine covenant in his own blood. Which the Catholic church renews this New covenant in Jesus True body, blood sacrifice to every people in every age since the resurrection, who makes himself present in the “anamnesis” of the New Covenant, to all the baptised children of God are the only ones who can partake of the eternal sacrifice who consumes the lamb sacrifice in the presence of our High Priest Jesus Christ. Another law fulfilled in this mystery in the Mass, True presence of Jesus Christ.

I know, there’s always a problem with our non-catholic understandings.

 

[Apryl]

a-hem, the CC is not the trunk, Jesus is.

You say that like the two are not connected

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I know, there’s always a problem with our non-catholic understandings.

 

[Dokimas]

You say that like the two are not connected

Nope. Just putting the connection in the proper place.

 

[Dokimas]

]

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Amen; that is why Jesus makes himself present before us in every “Supper of the Lamb” (see Revelations 19) Mass, because only Jesus can save us, because he commands his Church and promises to be with her always. That is why Catholics have Holy Communion with the Father in heaven through our savior and Lord Jesus Christ.

Praise be Jesus Christ both now and forever;

 

[Dokimas]

]

 

[Dokimas]

Amen; that is why Jesus makes himself present before us in every “Supper of the Lamb” (see Revelations 19) Mass, because only Jesus can save us, because he commands his Church and promises to be with her always. That is why Catholics have Holy Communion with the Father in heaven through our savior and Lord Jesus Christ.

Praise be Jesus Christ both now and forever;

As wonderful communion is, Jesus promiced to be with all those in the Body of Christ. Hebrews 13:5 records that He will never leave us or forsake us. For that to be true and for your understanding of communion, we’d have to be taking communion every moment of every day. Not praticle, to say the least.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

As wonderful communion is, Jesus promiced to be with all those in the Body of Christ. Hebrews 13:5 records that He will never leave us or forsake us. For that to be true and for your understanding of communion, we’d have to be taking communion every moment of every day. Not praticle, to say the least.

**And who are “all those in the body of Christ”? **Those who partake of his divinity through Jesus sacraments, 2Peter4 Through these, he has bestowed on us the precious and very great promises, **so that through them you may come to share in the divine nature, **

Apart from the True presence of Jesus Christ, how can one be in the body of Jesus Christ? The sacraments of Baptism, Eucharist and Confirmation is what makes one fully initiated into the body of Jesus Christ. I have introduced to you the official biblical, Apostolic Catholic faith of Christian initiation into the Body of Jesus Christ.

Another aspect of this **communion is a fulfillment from the prophet Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of hosts. **. Because in Holy Communion the Catholic church as one body in Jesus Christ celebrates Communion from the rising of the sun to its setting everywhere in the World. We are not confined to just the sabbath, but every day from the rising of sun to its setting in every hour of the day, the Catholic Church offers the once and for all sacrifice of Jesus body and blood (zakar= in rememberance) which is a pure offering to God, when His name is great among all the nations in every Mass throughout the world, a fulfillment from the prophets.

There is much more to Holy Communion than what has been introduced here on these threads because it is a life long celebration in the True presence of Jesus Christ, when we become partakers of his divinity, this my friend is “Holy Communion” in the true sense of worship to God.

 

[Dokimas]

**And who are “all those in the body of Christ”? **Those who partake of his divinity through Jesus sacraments, 2Peter4 Through these, he has bestowed on us the precious and very great promises, so that through them you may come to share in the divine nature,

Apart from the True presence of Jesus Christ, how can one be in the body of Jesus Christ? The sacraments of Baptism, Eucharist and Confirmation is what makes one fully initiated into the body of Jesus Christ. I have introduced to you the official biblical, Apostolic Catholic faith of Christian initiation into the Body of Jesus Christ.

Another aspect of this **communion is a fulfillment from the prophet Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of hosts. **. Because in Holy Communion the Catholic church as one body in Jesus Christ celebrates Communion from the rising of the sun to its setting everywhere in the World. We are not confined to just the sabbath, but every day from the rising of sun to its setting in every hour of the day, the Catholic Church offers the once and for all sacrifice of Jesus body and blood (zakar= in rememberance) which is a pure offering to God, when His name is great among all the nations in every Mass throughout the world, a fulfillment from the prophets.

There is much more to Holy Communion than what has been introduced here on these threads because it is a life long celebration in the True presence of Jesus Christ, when we become partakers of his divinity, this my friend is “Holy Communion” in the true sense of worship to God.

Sacraments don’t make it possible to partake in the divine nature. God’s grace by faith as we obey God because of the Holy Spirit allows us to partake in the divine nature.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Sacraments don’t make it possible to partake in the divine nature. God’s grace by faith as we obey God because of the Holy Spirit allows us to partake in the divine nature.

It’s easy to deny what you don’t understand or know for certain what God himself has revealed to his Church 2000 years ago…

What you introduce by faith alone is a new Christian philosophy that Lacks the “fullness” of Truth.

Can you define a biblical Sacrament of Jesus Christ? The Sacraments (mysteries of God) are instituted by Jesus himself, not man, if you think man invented the sacraments then you have been gravely misinformed and dare I say “someone has lied to you”. Do you know the translation of the word Sacramentum and where it comes from? Sacraments is nothing new from biblical Hebrew and New Testament Christian faith. What is new is the denial of God’s mysteries.

**1Corinthians 4:1
Thus should one regard us: as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. **
2
Now it is of course required of stewards that they be found trustworthy.

2Cor.3: 16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord the veil is removed.
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
18 All of us, gazing with unveiled face on the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, as from the Lord who is the Spirit.

There is a fundamental difference of “obeying” here? What do you obey Jesus commanding you from 2000 years ago? “Obeying” is an action, faith is the beginning of obedience. So? are you telling me, that you believe in the Catholic teaching of “Faith and Works”? Because to obey is to take an action, and an action brought about from faith is a work.

2Peter4 Through these, he has bestowed on us the precious and very great promises, **so that through them **you may come to share in the divine nature

You are not translating Peter’s “these” and “through them” as faith? Can you tell me how you draw that conclusion that Peter our first Pope is talking about faith in his “through them” and “these” items? This is where I think one needs Apostolic sacred Oral Tradition to place these mysteries together, without knowing the practice of the Apostolic Traditions how do you conclude Peter is talkin about “faith only”?

Sacraments can only be adminstered by the Lord’s glory and power, is how grace is given freely, Faith cannot earn the gift of grace, when it is given freely by the glory and power of God himself,** these **are the (mysteries of God) sacraments taking place when they (them) are adminstered by the good stewards (priests, Bishops) of the mysteries of God.

 

[maryj]

He did explain it; He said take communion ‘in remembrance of Me.’​

Paul went on to explain that communion proclaims His death until He returns.​

I find it interesting that catholics believe Mary had to be sinless to have Jesus in her womb, but they believe Jesus enters us sinners in the bread and wine.

dokimas, do you now how the Isrealites celebrated Passover? It isn’t just in “remembrance” it was offer this memorial sacrifice, meaning bring to the present.

 

[maryj]

]

The problem with your 20Th century interpretation of the biblical understanding of “remembrance” does not equate with what Jesus has just stated in “do this in remembrance of me”. This Hebrew understanding of remembrance is key to understanding the “New and everlasting covenant” of Jesus Christ “In his blood”.

Jesus commands his Apostles and their consecrated successors (see John 17:17- especially vs.20) to renew his covenant in his blood to every people and age until he returns. To renew a divine covenant is to “relive and make present” the divine covenant. The Eucharist is the fulfillment of the Jewish “Passover” feast.

For every Jew renewed God’s covenant by litterally making present in time what their ancestors experienced in the Exodus. God commanded them to remember his covenant and to keep it a “Perpetual sacrifice in his name”. Jesus has done so in his perpetual sacrifice made present in his body, blood, soul and divinity in his blessed sacrament of the Eucharist.

“Remembrance” is to make present God’s covenant, the Hebrew word is “Zakar” from the Old testament which in Hebrew faith is to “recall by making present” (quote by R.L. Wilken) in the remembrance of the covenant. God does not change, Jesus made an eternal reality of the old covenant in his blood, and never contradicts his Father in heaven, but fulfills the divine covenant in his own blood. Which the Catholic church renews this New covenant in Jesus True body, blood sacrifice to every people in every age since the resurrection, who makes himself present in the “anamnesis” of the New Covenant, to all the baptised children of God are the only ones who can partake of the eternal sacrifice who consumes the lamb sacrifice in the presence of our High Priest Jesus Christ. Another law fulfilled in this mystery in the Mass, True presence of Jesus Christ.

dokimas, do you now how the Isrealites celebrated Passover? It isn’t just in “remembrance” it was offer this memorial sacrifice, meaning bring to the present.

I apologize Gabriel didn’t quite read to the end of the thread. You explained so much better. God Bless.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I apologize Gabriel didn’t quite read to the end of the thread. You explained so much better. God Bless.

No, I think you did. I can never develope the knack of a short response at the same time getting my point across as you elegantly did. Thank you, and peace be with you

 

[fbl9]

The problem with a symbolic communion,where the bread is just a symbol is that it doesn’t really remember just who Jesus Christ is,that is man and God…While it sugests spiritual communion it leaves out the physical aspect of Jesus Christ.
To seperate Christ from His flesh is to leave part of Him out of the picture.

 

[fbl9]

I find it interesting that catholics believe Mary had to be sinless to have Jesus in her womb, but they believe Jesus enters us sinners in the bread and wine.

Have you not washed your robe in His blood?
It is a grevious sin to partake in comunion when one is not in a state of grace,which is sinlessness.
It is part of man’s nature to be a sinner; so how could Christ take on human nature yet not have sin as part of His nature unless the one He took His nature from was one who had not sin in her nature.?