Communist agenda alive in USA and Canada; WW II, did we join the wrong side?

[caesarjbsquitti]

Communist agenda alive in USA and Canada; WW II, did we join the wrong side ?

After the 2nd world war, Germany was divided half under the control of Russia and half under the influence of the West; but why did we not join Germany and fight the Communists…?

It was said, (you can’t believe anything you read) that Germany and Facism was against communism and homosexuality. It appears that Germany and Europe was under the attack of Comunism and Homosexuality, in fact Germany was the hotbed of immorality prior to the 1940’s, in fact that is why the ‘books were burned’, they were books that even today would be censored.

So why did the west join in attacking Germany ? Some say America was in fact supporting Germany’s war machine. No doubt alot of industrialists were behind the Facist movement, and against comunism.

Any coments ?

Anyway the communist ideology that ‘we are all equal’ (which is a deceptive half of a truth) is alive and well in North America…

So did the communist movement continue its way into North America under the disguise of some other label…ie socialism ?

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Communism… socialism… they’re all the same Godless -ism.

 

[Mystic_Banana]

Fascism is right-wing Darwinistic survivalism taken to it’s awful extreme, beyond the point where even Darwin would dare to contemplate (and ultimately, Hitler rejected even Darwin, since he conceived of the various ‘races’ he saw as being in battle with each other as being from a common source). There is less difference between the extreme left and right (and even those ideas are too limited to represent the ideological bases in play here) than the moderate tendancies of either - both are oppressive and dehumanizing.

Nazism = National socialism. And it was such, and had more similarities with Stalinist Russia than either had with your American right wing capitalism (extreme version of free marketering - not really the same direction as fascism) or liberalism, or socialism, or even monarchy!

 

[Peggy_in_Burien]

Communist agenda alive in USA and Canada; WW II, did we join the wrong side ?
What question are you asking here? Are you asking if the Communist agenda is alive in Canada and the US? Of course it is.
Are you asking if “we” (meaning the US and Canada, or just the US, joined the wrong side in WWII?
After the 2nd world war, Germany was divided half under the control of Russia and half under the influence of the West; but why did we not join Germany and fight the Communists…?
All of Europe was divided between the control of the Soviet Union and the NATO forces, not just Germany. There had been a huge race toward the end of the war in the European theater by each side to gain as much territory (and influence) as possible.

The US and the rest of the NATO allies have stood between the Soviet Union and the rest of Western Europe, including West Germany from 1945 until the present time. I spent a few years on that picket line myself.

Are you asking why the US didn’t join Hitler’s Germany to fight the Communists? There were many in the US, as well as other parts of Europe who did see the Communists as the greater threat than Hitler’s Germany. There was a civil war fought in Spain to that effect.

It was said, (you can’t believe anything you read) that Germany and Facism was against communism and homosexuality. It appears that Germany and Europe was under the attack of Comunism and Homosexuality, in fact Germany was the hotbed of immorality prior to the 1940’s, in fact that is why the ‘books were burned’, they were books that even today would be censored.Communism and homosexuality certainly were granted much leaway in pre-WWII Europe. However, remember that the Hitler regime was named the National Socialists. They were not right-wing conservatives as they have sometimes been portrayed by some modern-day socialists.

So why did the west join in attacking Germany ? The US had alliances with England and France. Canada, Australia, and New Zealand were part of the UK and therefore were drawn into the fray. The US engaged in Lend-Lease with England as well as the Soviet Union (still affecting us to this day), but did not formally enter the War until after the attack at Pearl Harbor. Some say America was in fact supporting Germany’s war machine.Well, that would be odd, since we bombed the hell out of their industrial complex! No doubt alot of industrialists were behind the Facist movement, and against comunism.
Do you have sources to cite for these statements?
Any coments ?

Anyway the communist ideology that ‘we are all equal’ (which is a deceptive half of a truth) is alive and well in North America…Are we not all equal under the Constitution and ideals of the US? Are we not all equal under the Eyes of God?
Karl Marx said “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.” Show me where the Communists practice equality.

So did the communist movement continue its way into North America under the disguise of some other label…ie socialism ? Communism has been in the US since the early 1920s and it hasn’t left, yet.

Hope this has helped you. But, please, cite your sources, and be more specific with the questions and statements.

 

[caesarjbsquitti]

Thanks for the reply…

According one American President, he stated that ‘we’ the Americans had joined the wrong side…perhaps we choose the worst of two evils…

Anyway most importantly here in Canda and in the USA…‘We are all equal before the law’ has been deceptively manipulated to mean ‘we are all equal’…and then with this statement sought to eliminate any inequalities…as in spouse, the opposite gender…to a spouse, or the marriage of two people of the opposite sex, to that of the marriage of two people…

In both cases we h ave literal half-truths…as magicians saw people in half,…these manipulators used the same process to corrupt our logic…

 

[Peggy_in_Burien]

Thanks for the reply…

You are most welcome.
According one American President, he stated that ‘we’ the Americans had joined the wrong side…perhaps we choose the worst of two evils…
Okay, but you still need to cite which American President. Then we can look this up and see what the context of the statement is.
Anyway most importantly here in Canda and in the USA…‘We are all equal before the law’ has been deceptively manipulated to mean ‘we are all equal’…and then with this statement sought to eliminate any inequalities…as in spouse, the opposite gender…to a spouse, or the marriage of two people of the opposite sex, to that of the marriage of two people…But how does this connect to which side the US fought on during the Second World War?

In both cases we h ave literal half-truths…as magicians saw people in half,…these manipulators used the same process to corrupt our logic…

Education is what will save you and the rest of us from the manipulators. I don’t mean the swill that is mostly taught now days instead of true history. Go seek out first person sources if you can. Read, read, and read. Don’t depend upon others to serve up what you should believe. Don’t depend just on what is currently on the TV news or the Internet. Read.

 

[Leela]

Nazism = National socialism. And it was such, and had more similarities with Stalinist Russia than either had with your American right wing capitalism (extreme version of free marketering - not really the same direction as fascism) or liberalism, or socialism, or even monarchy!

Mussolini’s definition of fascism:

“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism. It is the perfect marriage of the corporation and the State.”

Perhaps you can see why certain American extreme right-wingers are often associated with it.

If Nazism is Fascism and if Faccism is Corporatism, then it is quite a stretch to paint Nazism as a Leftist political movement. Faccism was a reaction against liberalism (against “liberty, equality, fraternity”). It opposed the sort of classical liberalism that modern American conservatives and liberals should all cheer for. It is the notion that George Washington was getting at when he said:

“As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality.”

Both Communism and Fascism are ideologies that placed the good of something else above the good of individual human beings. For Fascists, it was the corporation/state. For Communists it was the “worker’s paradise”/state. Both were authoritarian and claimed absolute authority. We all think that both ideologies erred in that regard. By contrast in liberalism, government gets it authority from the consent of the governed.

If we want to place Communism and Faccism on a one-dimensional continuum of American left and right economic politics, then Nazism is on the far right because of its emphasis on the coporation while Communism is on the far left with it’s emphasis on the worker.

If we want to put we want to put the terms on a continuum of authoritarianism versus liberalism, then they are both on the extreme of authoritarianism, but American conservatives would be closer to that end that American liberals would be with Libertarians (corporate-emphasizing right wingers) and Civil libertarians (worker-emphasizing left wingers) would both be on the opposite end with those putting the greatest emphasis of individual rights

The map I’m sketching here looks like this:

…Corporate rights (Rightism)
…+…3
…1…+…6
…+
libertarian--------------------------------------------authoritarian
… +
…2…5…+
…+… 4
…worker rights (Leftism)

1. Libertarians (Ron Paul?)
2. Civil Libertarians (the ACLU)
3. Nazis
4. Commis
5. Democrats
6. Republicans

Though I think conservatives are generally more authoritarian, it is not true on every issue. If I could make a 3-D graph or something I would distinguish the authoritarian-libertarian continuum with respect to whether we are taking about social programs (liberals more authoritarian and conservatives more libertarian) or traditional social roles (conservatives more authoritarian and liberals more libertarian).

I think it is good to consider this sort of analysis which situates the debate on various continuums to get past the notion that we are arguing about absolutes and all the thought-stopping name-calling that ensues from such thinking (Obama is a socialist! Bush is a fascist!). We are all trying to find the right balance between various interests (economics, morals, individual freedom, solidarity, justice, etc.) for the good of us all as we see it and as we think we can best achieve it.

Best,
Leela

 

[edwest2]

The Communist agenda has lived on even with the collapse of the U.S.S.R. General Patton was angry that the Russians were getting Eastern Europe. He advocating starting a war to push the Russians out. He was assassinated.

Winston Churchill drew up a study called Operation Unthinkable at the end of the war. His concern was that the Russians would sweep across Western Europe as well. His military planners told him they could not stop the Russians without reactivating part of the German Army and the Waffen SS.

Hitler was brought to power by industrialists and bankers. This historical connection is rarely made. Without their support, he could do nothing. When the Allies landed in Normandy in June 1944, an attempt was made to kill him the following month.

The Americans began breaking Russian codes in 1943. They didn’t trust our Ally even then.

God bless,
Ed

 

[curlycool89]

Hitler was brought to power by industrialists and bankers. This historical connection is rarely made. Without their support, he could do nothing. When the Allies landed in Normandy in June 1944, an attempt was made to kill him the following month.

Ok, the ridiculousness of this thread is off the scale, but that’s just factually wrong if you are insinuating that industrialists and bankers (Hitler’s “backers”) tried to kill him in the 20th July plot. The plot was mostly from officers from within the German Army itself, and had been planned long before Overlord (it did give them another reason to do it), including an attempt in 1943 (long before Hitler lost popularity). The assassin in the 20th July plot was the Catholic Colonel Stauffenberg.

 

[edwest2]

Ok, the ridiculousness of this thread is off the scale, but that’s just factually wrong if you are insinuating that industrialists and bankers (Hitler’s “backers”) tried to kill him in the 20th July plot. The plot was mostly from officers from within the German Army itself, and had been planned long before Overlord (it did give them another reason to do it), including an attempt in 1943 (long before Hitler lost popularity). The assassin in the 20th July plot was the Catholic Colonel Stauffenberg.

Factually wrong? How do you know that? What was the fourth largest company in the world in 1933? It was I.G. Farben. Never heard of it? Not surprising.

The author of the following book was chief of financial intelligence and liaison of the Finance Division of United States Military Government. From I.G. Farben by Richard Sasuly (1947).

“The people behind the July 20th plot were so influential that they would have stood a fair chance of turning Hitler out of office at any time after 1933.”

“They waited as long as they did because up till July, 1944, they had been satisfied with Hitler.”

God bless,
Ed

 

[Mystic_Banana]

Mussolini’s definition of fascism:

“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism. It is the perfect marriage of the corporation and the State.”

Perhaps you can see why certain American extreme right-wingers are often associated with it.

If Nazism is Fascism and if Fascism is Corporatism, then it is quite a stretch to paint Nazism as a Leftist political movement. Faccism was a reaction against liberalism (against “liberty, equality, fraternity”). It opposed the sort of classical liberalism that modern American conservatives and liberals should all cheer for. It is the notion that George Washington was getting at when he said:

“As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality.”

Both Communism and Fascism are ideologies that placed the good of something else above the good of individual human beings. For Fascists, it was the corporation/state. For Communists it was the “worker’s paradise”/state. Both were authoritarian and claimed absolute authority. We all think that both ideologies erred in that regard. By contrast in liberalism, government gets it authority from the consent of the governed.

If we want to place Communism and Faccism on a one-dimensional continuum of American left and right economic politics, then Nazism is on the far right because of its emphasis on the coporation while Communism is on the far left with it’s emphasis on the worker.

If we want to put we want to put the terms on a continuum of authoritarianism versus liberalism, then they are both on the extreme of authoritarianism, but American conservatives would be closer to that end that American liberals would be with Libertarians (corporate-emphasizing right wingers) and Civil libertarians (worker-emphasizing left wingers) would both be on the opposite end with those putting the greatest emphasis of individual rights

The map I’m sketching here looks like this:

…Corporate rights (Rightism)
…+…3
…1…+…6
…+
libertarian--------------------------------------------authoritarian
… +
…2…5…+
…+… 4
…worker rights (Leftism)

1. Libertarians (Ron Paul?)
2. Civil Libertarians (the ACLU)
3. Nazis
4. Commis
5. Democrats
6. Republicans

Though I think conservatives are generally more authoritarian, it is not true on every issue. If I could make a 3-D graph or something I would distinguish the authoritarian-libertarian continuum with respect to whether we are taking about social programs (liberals more authoritarian and conservatives more libertarian) or traditional social roles (conservatives more authoritarian and liberals more libertarian).

I think it is good to consider this sort of analysis which situates the debate on various continuums to get past the notion that we are arguing about absolutes and all the thought-stopping name-calling that ensues from such thinking (Obama is a socialist! Bush is a fascist!). We are all trying to find the right balance between various interests (economics, morals, individual freedom, solidarity, justice, etc.) for the good of us all as we see it and as we think we can best achieve it.

Best,
Leela

That’s an interesting quote… although I have suddenly become completely disillusioned with (political) Liberals, not least as a result of UK Liberals’ recent alliance with the Tories… plus seeing their policy on religious education, which doesn’t sound so much seculist as scientismically dogmatic - and thus, as far from any concept of liberal in a social sense as I could imagine

With quotes like that, I’m beginning to think there is the kind of difference between Nazism and Fascism that some people (not least modern Italian Fascists ) argue…

Your graph is interesting, since it shows the kind of multiple elements that are misrepresented by such simple binary measure as left-right - it’s that kind of message I’m trying to convey, here - although I think there are probably more elements than that!

 

[curlycool89]

Factually wrong? How do you know that? What was the fourth largest company in the world in 1933? It was I.G. Farben. Never heard of it? Not surprising.

The author of the following book was chief of financial intelligence and liaison of the Finance Division of United States Military Government. From I.G. Farben by Richard Sasuly (1947).

“The people behind the July 20th plot were so influential that they would have stood a fair chance of turning Hitler out of office at any time after 1933.”

“They waited as long as they did because up till July, 1944, they had been satisfied with Hitler.”

God bless,
Ed

Well I know that that’s wrong now, because the plotters tried to kill Hitler in March 1943, well before Hitler’s popularity dropped. I’d like to see any credible historian try and say otherwise.