Community Around the Altar?

[Semper_Fi_1]

I hope I dont offend anyone with this post. PLEASE forgive me if I do. My opinion, for what its worth (not much) is that listening to the arguements from both sides makes me think…One of the reasons I joined the ONE true Church because of the Traditions and traditions that the Church has and has had for 2000 years. I go to a parish that some could call a little on the liberal side sometimes but not because of the priests or the way Mass is celebrated but because of the way some people there treat coming to Mass. ex.- men wearing shorts and tanktops and women dressing in less than I’ve seen in my younger days in dance clubs:blush: . I’m not saying that we should all wear 3 pc suits and full length gowns, but some people should have a little more respect than what they do. I’m not perfect by ANY means but I try to dress me and my children respectfully when attending Mass. But that brings me to my point. I dont care which Mass you attend NO or TLM, there are guidelines for a reason. If we all got to decide how Mass was conducted, then we would be a Protestant church and not the Catholic Church. God set things for the Church in a hierarchy for a reason, so we couldnt screw it up!!! Some of the posts I’ve read in this thread amaze me and I understand where you are coming from, but the fact is that the Church does things for a reason and if you go against it then YOU are wrong. No matter how petty you think things are. If you dont like the color of the vestments this cycle or think that you should be allowed to dance around the altar or change the words of the liturgy, it DOESNT matter what you think or want. (No offense!!) Sometimes you follow tradition for tradition’s sake. When people let one thing go then the next one’s gets bigger and bigger and then we’ll have women priests and lay people running the show. And then you wont be able to tell the difference between us and everyone else…just a thought…

AMEN…

 

[ukdal1]

You’re not getting the joke. The “hierarchy” is made up of men. With fallen natures, like our own. Many who have historically had their own agendas, sinfulness, pride. Even Rome itself has frequently been cause of scandal in the 2000 years of Church history.

Yes, but the church’s direction through the Holy Father are INFALLIBLE whether you believe it or not…

The question is when it is truly “dead wrong”.

…see above response…

 

[chicago]

Yes, but the church’s direction through the Holy Father are INFALLIBLE whether you believe it or not…

No, when speaking on faith and morals as formal teaching in a particular manner, he holds the grace of infallibility. It is a negative protection which guards the Church against him binding what can not be. In most cases (and especially when it comes to offering guidance on practice of the faith) he is not acting or speaking infallibly. Let alone is some Roman dicastry… God help us! In many cases, the pope is merely offering his perspective of insight on the faith. And in most cases regarding dicastrial direction, even what they recommend as orthopractice certainly isn’t infallible, and in some cases can well be intellectually challenged with legitimacy. Even St. Peter had to be corrected by St. Paul.

 

[ukdal1]

No, when speaking on faith and morals as formal teaching in a particular manner, he holds the grace of infallibility. It is a negative protection which guards the Church against him binding what can not be. In most cases (and especially when it comes to offering guidance on practice of the faith) he is not acting or speaking infallibly. Let alone is some Roman dicastry… God help us! In many cases, the pope is merely offering his perspective of insight on the faith. And in most cases regarding dicastrial direction, even what they recommend as orthopractice certainly isn’t infallible, and in some cases can well be intellectually challenged with legitimacy. Even St. Peter had to be corrected by St. Paul.

I’m not saying that when he is giving his opinion he is infallible, I’m with you there… What I’m basically saying is that when there are changes made to the way we celebrate Mass and the Liturgy,(every hundred years or so ) we are to obey those changes. I do understand that some people want things to change and like to express those views and that’s fine, to each his own opinion, but on the same page until those changes are allowed from Rome, its not our decision to make to change things around on our own. I hope were on the same page now because all this going back and forth is killing me…:hypno:

 

[sphilomena]

I’m not saying that when he is giving his opinion he is infallible, I’m with you there… What I’m basically saying is that when there are changes made to the way we celebrate Mass and the Liturgy,(every hundred years or so ) we are to obey those changes. I do understand that some people want things to change and like to express those views and that’s fine, to each his own opinion, but on the same page until those changes are allowed from Rome, its not our decision to make to change things around on our own. I hope were on the same page now because all this going back and forth is killing me…:hypno:

As Semper Fi said, AMEN to this and what you previously wrote. Some people seem to forget that there are rules for a reason! Some years back I wrote a note to our previous pastor, comparing changing the Creed to a rock thrown into the water, when you see the rings continuing to drift outward: the effects of disobedience linger and multiply. (He thanked me!)

 

[chicago]

I’m not saying that when he is giving his opinion he is infallible, I’m with you there… What I’m basically saying is that when there are changes made to the way we celebrate Mass and the Liturgy,(every hundred years or so ) we are to obey those changes. I do understand that some people want things to change and like to express those views and that’s fine, to each his own opinion, but on the same page until those changes are allowed from Rome, its not our decision to make to change things around on our own. I hope were on the same page now because all this going back and forth is killing me…:hypno:

I think this is pretty much what I said earlier on the thread, actually. Though, historically, changes in the Mass never really come “from Rome” so much as they just happen to find their way into Masses around the world and are either eventually confirmed or proscibed by the authorities. The reality, therefore, over centuries of experience is that liturgical innovation is nothing new and won’t end with simple appeals to “don’t do that on your own initiative.” It will be with us always and is something which we need to learn how to deal with, even tolerate, and perhaps sometimes support.