Comparative Religion and General Faith Discussion

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Techno2000 said:
So all nine are distinct individual persons in Heaven ?
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Don’t mean to answer for Tony, but according to Hinduism. they are absolutely distinct individual persons in Heaven (however I don’t count the two Bahais among them as ‘Sons of God’).

Also, I personally believe, that although all of them still remain ‘Sons of God’ in heaven, the ‘Son’ separates from them upon their death.
 
openmind77 said:
Don’t mean to answer for Tony, but according to Hinduism. they are absolutely distinct individual persons in Heaven (however I don’t count the two Bahais among them as ‘Sons of God’).

Also, I personally believe, that although all of them still remain ‘Sons of God’ in heaven, the ‘Son’ separates from them upon their death.
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Lol, I like when everybody jumps in, the more the merrier … so did they have their own individual ideas and thoughts ?
 
Techno2000 said:
Lol, I like when everybody jumps in, the more the merrier … so did they have their own individual ideas and thoughts.
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They do have their own individual ideas and thoughts, but when the divine ‘Son’ descends into them, their thoughts become as God’s thought - perfectly correct and beyond reproach.

So it was with Jesus - everything Jesus himself has said is the truth and so it was with the Buddha. But they are still two distinct individuals, but Manifestations or Avatars of the same ‘Son’
 
openmind77 said:
They do have their own individual ideas and thoughts, but when the divine ‘Son’ descends into them, their thoughts become as God’s thought - perfectly correct and beyond reproach.

So it was with Jesus - everything Jesus himself has said is the truth and so it was with the Buddha. But they are still two distinct individuals, but Manifestations or Avatars of the same ‘Son’
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It’s wonderful to see you are sharing the Message of Baha’u’llah to all far and wide, and using His terminologies such as “Manifestations”…

This indeed is a sign of the Second Coming 😉

God bless you brother 🙂

.
 
openmind77 said:
Don’t mean to answer for Tony, but according to Hinduism. they are absolutely distinct individual persons in Heaven (however I don’t count the two Bahais among them as ‘Sons of God’).
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THat’s interesting openmind.

Can you please share with me where in Hinduism it states what you write here please?

That all Sons of God/Avatars are distinct individual persons in heaven, where is that stated?

Thanks 🙂

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Servant19 said:
THat’s interesting openmind.

Can you please share with me where in Hinduism it states what you write here please?

That all Sons of God/Avatars are distinct individual persons in heaven, where is that stated?

Thanks 🙂

.
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There is no need to have such a specific statement. We have two Avatars Rama and Krishna whom Hindus worship and we** never, ever** confuse the two or say they are in any way the same. They are completely separate two individuals. This is true for all incarnations of the Son. They are totally separate distinct individuals. Jesus is not the Buddha and the Buddha is not Krishna.
 
openmind77 said:
There is no need to have such a specific statement. We have two Avatars Rama and Krishna whom Hindus worship and we** never, ever** confuse the two or say they are in any way the same. They are completely separate two individuals. This is true for all incarnations of the Son. They are totally separate distinct individuals. Jesus is not the Buddha and the Buddha is not Krishna.
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Thankyou brother.

So what links the Avatars? Is there a shared commonality between Rama and Krishna and other Sons/Manifestations? If so what is it?

And if there are any Hindu sources to this, I would appreciate it. Thank you 🙂

.
 
openmind77 said:
There is no need to have such a specific statement. We have two Avatars Rama and Krishna whom Hindus worship and we** never, ever** confuse the two or say they are in any way the same. They are completely separate two individuals. This is true for all incarnations of the Son. They are totally separate distinct individuals. Jesus is not the Buddha and the Buddha is not Krishna.
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Did you read this link? reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-22.html

If you do read the link, is not the Twofold Station describing the same thing you are as per your following post
openmind77 said:
Techno2000, I know your question was addressed to the Bahais, but let me try to answer it in Hindu terms.

Abraham, Krishna, Rama, Zoroaster, Buddha, Confucius, Jesus are distinct human beings and are in no way related to each other. However during their life on earth, the Second Person of the Trinity (or the Son) descended into them making them ‘Manifestations’ or ‘Sons of God’ or Avatars. So they are definitely not the same but they are similar. Although they are all Manifestations of God, they are distinct persons.

Actually, I don’t believe that Bab and Bahaullah are Manifestations of God.
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Regards Tony
 
Techno2000 said:
Lol, I like when everybody jumps in, the more the merrier … so did they have their own individual ideas and thoughts ?
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So Joey even you don’t mind it when I jump in?? Yes They all have their distinct qualities, personalities and characteristics.
 
Servant19 said:
Thankyou brother.

So what links the Avatars? Is there a shared commonality between Rama and Krishna and other Sons/Manifestations? If so what is it?

And if there are any Hindu sources to this, I would appreciate it. Thank you 🙂

.
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I thought I already said in previous post.

The Godhead is a Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Son (named Vishnu in Hinduism) descends into each of these Avatars during their lifetime. That descent of the Son is what is common among all these Avatars. The idea that Rama and Krishna are incarnations of Vishnu is a common one in Hinduism, you can just google incarnations of Vishnu.

In Christian terms you would call them incarnations of the Son, but they are still separate incarnations. Jesus is not the Buddha and the Buddha is not Krishna, but the Son descended into each of them.
 
TonyBS said:
Did you read this link? reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-22.html

If you do read the link, is not the Twofold Station describing the same thing you are as per your following post

Regards Tony
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I am not sure what you mean, just read this link. Just because there is some link and it describes Incarnations of the Son in the same way, does not make the Bab and Bahaullah incarnations of God. I could create a webpage and describe some Twofold station about any two persons, that will not make them incarnations of God.

But the reason I don’t believe in their Avatarhood as I said before is, for instance the Bab taught that all books should be burnt except his own. Then he taught that everyone who did not follow him should be killed. Then when he was questioned by the authorities, he recanted all his teachings. Bahaullah claimed to base his teachings on the Bab’s, but actually rejected them - now the Bab’s original followers (Bayanis? Azalis?) are making all kinds of accusations against Bahaullah and the Bahai. A lot of sordid stuff - basically these two persons are not ‘Sons of God’, you need to accept that.
 
So the Bible has nothing to do with Mohammed right?

MJ

Revelation 12 is specifically about the appearance of Muhammad. I have already mentioned this somewhere else but will repeat it here for your convenience.

REV12.1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

The woman is the law of God, religion or revelation of God.

The Sun and Moon represents Muhammad and Ali Who were the Sun and Moon of the Muhammaden Revelation

And also the sun and moon are the emblems of Persia and the Ottoman governments which were under Islam

The crown upon her head of twelve stars represents the Twelve Imams

The large part history of Islam is summarised in Revelation 12 and I can go into much more if you so wish. The dragon, the Child etc very clever, in fact so clever, almost all biblical scholars have never given it a thought how Revelation explains Islam and its history.
 
worldcitizen said:
Hi ericc,

The God answer is not so simple and needs more clarification but basically yes we do not believe Christ is the essence of essence of God but God’s Perfect Manifestation.
  1. Yes Jesus was not Almighty God Himself ‘in essence’ is our belief
  2. He revealed God’s Revelation but can be prayed to and revered
  3. The disciples did the right thing. I myself would throw myself at the feet of Jesus if I met Him. Why not? Didn’t Jesus say to only to worship God in spirit not flesh??
  4. I believe in the spiritual resurrection of Jesus. That is, when He died there was uncertainty He was from God then after the disciples experiencied visions and dreams they realised He was not just an ordinary man and it took them 3 days to realise that. So I agree just understand it differently.
5.Yes I accept Jesus is the Son of God but spiritual not physical son. God never got married or had children.

6.Jesus said He was one with the Father but that isn’t equivalent to saying ‘I am God’ Jesus also prayed that we would be all one with the Father and Him.
  1. Jesus was the Son of God and a Prophet and the Bread of Life and had so many titles. They are all right and don’t contradict each other. He said He was a prophet as well as the Son of man. So He was not a hoax or a false prophet but true.
8 I don’t remember you asking me about Muhammad and Ali in the Book of revelation. Maybe I missed the email in my inbox. Sorry Muhammad and Ali are there but which Ali question are you referring to?
  1. I would give my life for Jesus in an instant Not saying He is God I can clarify to your satisfaction in another post which I’m sure will help a lot - REMIND ME.
Islam, Muhammad and Ali the Bahai interpretation.

Revelation chapter 12

The Women is the religion of God or the Law of God. The Sun and Moon under her feet has a material and spiritual definition.
Spiritual definition us that Muhammad is the Sun and Ali the Moon
Physical Definition is that the Sun and moon were the emblems of Persia and Ottoman Empire the two governments under the religion
The Crown of Twelve Stars over Her Head are the Twelve Imams

The pregnant Woman fled into the wilderness and awaited 1260 days. In the Bible a day is a year so 1260 years she waiting before giving birth but as we are speaking about Islam the calendar is 1260 years of the Muslim not Christian calendar so after 1260 years she gave birth to the Bab in 1844

If you go to any Muslim AH calculator you type in 1260 you will get 1844 of the Christian calendar.

islamicity.com/prayertimes/hijriconverter1apartner.htm

There are even more prophecies about Ali and how Islam was destroyed by the Umayyands in the Book of Revelation and if you understand this you will,be amazed just how the Bible so accurately foretold these events and is not just a Book as many people think.

Which Ali question did you ask?

All these interpretations I find prove the authority of the Bible as how could the Bible miss an event like Islam? It’s impossible that the Bible missed Islam just people haven’t seen it yet because they haven’t realised that the Books have been unsealed.

Thanks for your patience. Sorry if I make mistakes or miss something. please forgive me for that.
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Why is this here, when we already have this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=991039&page=11

MJ
 
openmind77 said:
I am not sure what you mean, just read this link. Just because there is some link and it describes Incarnations of the Son in the same way, does not make the Bab and Bahaullah incarnations of God. I could create a webpage and describe some Twofold station about any two persons, that will not make them incarnations of God.

But the reason I don’t believe in their Avatarhood as I said before is, for instance the Bab taught that all books should be burnt except his own. Then he taught that everyone who did not follow him should be killed. Then when he was questioned by the authorities, he recanted all his teachings. Bahaullah claimed to base his teachings on the Bab’s, but actually rejected them - now the Bab’s original followers (Bayanis? Azalis?) are making all kinds of accusations against Bahaullah and the Bahai. A lot of sordid stuff - basically these two persons are not ‘Sons of God’, you need to accept that.
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As I have said you are free to read the web sites you choose, from your comments I see which ones you have chosen to pursue. 😉

I like this one as a gem of nonsense “Then when he was questioned by the authorities, he recanted all his teachings”. But of course the Muslim Clergy would love for everyone to think He had and made all attempts to prove He had.

I would consider if it was actually so, why was He executed by Firing Squad 🤷

If you read more reliable links you will find a more balanced findings of the Trials. When ones still sees the rubbish that is coming out of Iran about the Baha’i’s, I know which side I would not to look too if I was searching for truth in this matter.

About the Bab, Baha’u’llah has written;

"Another proof and evidence of the truth of this Revelation, which amongst all other proofs shineth as the sun, is the constancy of the eternal Beauty [the Bab] in proclaiming the Faith of God. Though young and tender of age, and though the Cause He revealed was contrary to the desire of all the peoples of earth, both high and low, rich and poor, exalted and abased, king and subject, yet He arose and steadfastly proclaimed it. All have known and heard this. He was afraid of no one; He was regardless of consequences. Could such a thing be made manifest except through the power of a divine Revelation, and the potency of God’s invincible Will? By the righteousness of God! Were any one to entertain so great a Revelation in his heart, the thought of such a declaration would alone confound him! Were the hearts of all men to be crowded into his heart, he would still hesitate to venture upon so awful an enterprise. He could achieve it only by the permission of God, only if the channel of his heart were to be linked with the Source of divine grace, and his soul be assured of the unfailing sustenance of the Almighty. To what, We wonder, do they ascribe so great a daring? Do they accuse Him of folly as they accused the Prophets of old? Or do they maintain that His motive was none other than leadership and the acquisition of earthly riches? (Baha’u’llah, Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 230-231)

Regards Tony
 
openmind77 said:
I thought I already said in previous post.

The Godhead is a Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Son (named Vishnu in Hinduism) descends into each of these Avatars during their lifetime. That descent of the Son is what is common among all these Avatars. The idea that Rama and Krishna are incarnations of Vishnu is a common one in Hinduism, you can just google incarnations of Vishnu.

In Christian terms you would call them incarnations of the Son, but they are still separate incarnations. Jesus is not the Buddha and the Buddha is not Krishna, but the Son descended into each of them.
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Hi openmind, I was wondering what is the Hindu source for your understanding that the “Son descends” upon the Avatars?

Thankyou

.
 
worldcitizen said:
So the Bible has nothing to do with Mohammed right?

MJ

Revelation 12 is specifically about the appearance of Muhammad. I have already mentioned this somewhere else but will repeat it here for your convenience.

REV12.1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

The woman is the law of God, religion or revelation of God.

The Sun and Moon represents Muhammad and Ali Who were the Sun and Moon of the Muhammaden Revelation

And also the sun and moon are the emblems of Persia and the Ottoman governments which were under Islam

The crown upon her head of twelve stars represents the Twelve Imams

The large part history of Islam is summarised in Revelation 12 and I can go into much more if you so wish. The dragon, the Child etc very clever, in fact so clever, almost all biblical scholars have never given it a thought how Revelation explains Islam and its history.
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Wrong. Read the verse before it. Plus nothing is “clever” in the Bible. It is Holy.

MJ
 
Servant19 said:
Hi openmind, I was wondering what is the Hindu source for your understanding that the “Son descends” upon the Avatars?

Thankyou

.
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Hindus have a Triad of three main Gods and Christians also have a Trinity. Hindus say Vishnu incarnates into humans, Christians believe the Son incarnated as Jesus. The Son is a Christian term that does not exist in Hinduism (since it is much older than that term). The Hindu source says that Vishnu descends into the Avatars.

Just fyi, the word avatarana means ‘to descend’ in Sanskrit/Hindi.
 
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