Comparative Religion and General Faith Discussion

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Techno2000 said:
The Parable of the Ten Virgins is about those who are prepared for Judgement day, and those who are not.
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Judgement Day has come. We are being judged now by our acceptance or rejection of Baha’u’llah.
 
in light of these words of someone who purports to be a follower of bahaullah, “Thank you. I made my choice. I cannot fathom a love deeper than the sacrifices Baha’u’llah made for me to instil a pure, sincere love for all, not just for my own co-religionists.”, i ask, what could be more convincing that the bahai do not know the real Jesus Christ?

a bahai cannot fathom a love deeper than bahaullah getting imprisoned and forced to live in a mansion for the last 12 years of his life. does that sound like someone who understand the Passion and Crucifixion of Jesus Christ? does that sound like someone who understands the scripture that says, greater love than this has NO man, than to lay down His life for His friends? what can we say about a person who thinks a man who has three wives and dies in a mansion is more significant and a better teacher of love than the Perfect Man who left heaven to submit Himself freely to all of the indignities of life in this world and ultimately to a death by extreme torture?
 
eddie_too said:
in light of these words of someone who purports to be a follower of bahaullah, “Thank you. I made my choice. I cannot fathom a love deeper than the sacrifices Baha’u’llah made for me to instil a pure, sincere love for all, not just for my own co-religionists.”, i ask, what could be more convincing that the bahai do not know the real Jesus Christ?

a bahai cannot fathom a love deeper than bahaullah getting imprisoned and forced to live in a mansion for the last 12 years of his life. does that sound like someone who understand the Passion and Crucifixion of Jesus Christ? does that sound like someone who understands the scripture that says, greater love than this has NO man, than to lay down His life for His friends? what can we say about a person who thinks a man who has three wives and dies in a mansion is more significant and a better teacher of love than the Perfect Man who left heaven to submit Himself freely to all of the indignities of life in this world and ultimately to a death by extreme torture?
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One question Eddie.

Do you love and believe in Muhammad?

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eddie_too said:
there is no evidence that bab or bahaullah understood or even competently knew the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

if they had, they would have explained how their teachings are in continuity with those of Jesus Christ.

if i recall correctly, when i first read of bahaism from its adherents here, maybe a year or so ago, the bahai were claiming that in John 16 Jesus reference to a paraclete or advocate was a prophesy that bahaullah fulfilled.

now the adherents of bahaullah are claiming that bahaullah is the second coming of Christ.

even the most ignorant person who reads John 16 would not conclude that the advocate or paraclete promised by Jesus is His Second Coming.

this is what i call sophism. when the bahai’s conception of John 16 as referring to a new manifestation was opposed and rejected for its errors, the bahai quickly pivot and now claim that bahaullah is Jesus Christ.

for me, and i do not intend to speak for others, that is weird nonsense. a year ago, the bahai claim that bahaullah is the fulfillment of Jesus promise in John 16. today, according to the bahai, bahaullah is the Second Coming.

teachings cannot get any more inconsistent that this.

words seem to mean next to nothing to the followers of bahaullah. certainly reason and logic is a low priority for the bahai.

i expect that the bahai will come up with even more verbal juggling to explain this contradiction away. be prepared those of you who find it rewarding providing logic, reason, facts and history to support your beliefs to people for whom logic, reason, facts and history have little importance.
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The evidence is the same as the evidence that existed in the time of Jesus. Why have the Jews been able to reject the messiah to this day? Because they misread the signs and assumed that their knowledge was sufficient. Today it’s the same. Only those who have eyes to see and ears to hear can recognise Baha’u’llah. You cannot judge Baha’u’llah by earthly knowledge as it is imperfect.

If your spiritual eyes were open you would see Christ coming in great glory with the Angels but as they are not we can do nothing. If you took enough open minded oil in your lamp maybe you would have seen Him.

The Paraclete was Muhammad. The return of Christ, Spirit of Truth is Baha’u’llah. Without the seals being opened its impossible to have the correct interpretation of the Apocalypse and Bible prophecies. Baha’u’llah is mentioned in many, many verses in the Bible too many to list here. He is God’s Throne in Elam, Persia modern day Iran. Jeremiah 49:38

Baha’is have the true correct and authoritative interpretation of the prophecies as they have gotten it from the Lamb that was slain, the Bab and the lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David - Baha’u’llah Who was descended from the father of David, Jesse and Abraham.

Denial is a dime a dozen. People always deny the truth. Assertion is also a weak argument. Only an authoritative interpretation is able to unravel the mysteries which can only be obtained from the Revelation of Baha’u’llah. The Bab, Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi.

All other interpretations are guesses, stabs in the dark with neither substance nor infallibility as they come from man’s mind which errs greatly.

The source for Baha’is comes directly from infallible sources such the Book of Certitude, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, Some Answered Questions by Abdul-Baha, Lights of Guidance - Shoghi Effendi, the Hidden Words of Baha’u’llah, the Most Holy Book of Baha’u’llah, Tablets of Baha’u’llah after the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, Selections from the Writings of Abdul-Baha, God Passes by Shoghi Effendi, and many more all infallible and authoritative. And the Bible and Quran.

But just as to a person without physical sight cannot see the sun so a person without spiritual insight cannot see the Coming of the Father, Baha’u’llah.
 
Servant19 said:
No we don’t. 🙂

We are a lot more humble than that.

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Careful here, your actions in writing this contradict the statement.

But I understand what you are saying, it does sound over the top to constantly see or read ‘we have the fullness of truth’.

Certainly, on its own, is baseless. I think there is enough information, not hidden or secret, of which one can evaluate the depth of the statement.

But absolutely, perhaps we can grow a bit in how often we use the term.

Take care,

Mike
 
ffg said:
Careful here, your actions in writing this contradict the statement.

But I understand what you are saying, it does sound over the top to constantly see or read ‘we have the fullness of truth’.

Certainly, on its own, is baseless. I think there is enough information, not hidden or secret, of which one can evaluate the depth of the statement.

But absolutely, perhaps we can grow a bit in how often we use the term.

Take care,

Mike
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Hi Mike,

I apologize if it is lacking humility to post what I did, but it is very important that no one assign “fullness of Truth” or “absolute Truth” to the Baha’i religion, which was asserted by Techno.

We feel it lacks humility for any human being other than a Manifestation of God to assert such a thing.

If that offends people, I apologize, but we don’t shy away from our human reality which is nothing before God. 🙂

We know for a fact that many many Manifestations of God will continue to appear to the human race and reveal gradually more and more Truth over time…

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Servant19 said:
Hi Mike,

I apologize if it is lacking humility to post what I did, but it is very important that no one assign “fullness of Truth” or “absolute Truth” to the Baha’i religion, which was asserted by Techno.

We feel it lacks humility for any human being other than a Manifestation of God to assert such a thing.

If that offends people, I apologize, but we don’t shy away from our human reality which is nothing before God. 🙂

We know for a fact that many many Manifestations of God will continue to appear to the human race and reveal gradually more and more Truth over time…

.
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No apologies needed. I think there is an old saying to be careful trusting someone who claims they are (insert virtue here).

Let others claim virtue of you, this is how folks will know.

I’m glad to see your note though because it clarifies a point. I won’t stop trying to explain the Catholic view of fullness, but until I hear differently from a Baha’i, I will not claim Bahai thinks it has the fullness of truth.

Thanks for clarifying.

Take care,

Mike
 
ffg said:
Thanks worldcitizen for the questions.

I’m going to focus on the one where you and Tony seem to be perfectly aligned.

What kind of oil? What kind of Gas?

For both parables, both of you are focused on something that is unrelated to the point of the parable.

Though, this gives us good insight into how our Bahai friends develop their thought process.

For your answer, look at the end of Matt 25 when Jesus is explaining how we love him. Remember - to prepare for God and to love God are the same acts.

I left in that last part of your post because I almost fully agree with what you wrote (with the caveat that the use of the word ‘believe’ as you use it, is not the pregnant ‘believe’ in the Bible, which has a deeper more fruitful meaning, which includes doing what is asked of us / instructed to us)…

Just drop the ‘over time’ bit, because we can see that over long periods of time people don’t believe.

But one thing is for sure - every person will eventually know God is, regardless of their acceptance of Him.

In that way, using a basic version of ‘belief’, yes, every person will believe.

To make sure this is very clear, and not interpreted as ‘everyone goes to heaven’…

Satan and his band of evil spirits know God is, just as much as the Angels and Saints.

Take care,

mike
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Dearest Mike. Can I call you Mike? Thanks for being so gentle and kind. if I fail to answer some questions its not deliberate so please forgive. I’ve got about 56 emails to answer and I miss one or two. Sincerest apologies. -David. love to be your friend

Also please understand from the outset my intention and focus is the oneness of mankind NOT to take anyone away from their religion. I am not just a Baha’i but a Christian as well. We just discuss and challenge point and counter point. It’s good spiritual exercise and we all learn but the BOTTOM LINE for me is if we can be friends and show to the world that religion is not about wars, conflict and division but even Baha’is and Christians can be friends without animosity. When people see religionists loving one another they might come back to God. That’s my real hope.

Love to you and your family and remember please. Regardless of however firm are my convictions I’m not in the slightest bit interested in converting you to my religion. I converted my self to Bahai no one did it so it’s a personal thing and we all must respect each other’s choice but that doesn’t mean we can’t have robust discussions to find out if it is tru that Christ returned or not as it is very important for Christians that it would be unthinkable to deny Jesus thus the need to be absolutely sure. So Baha’u’llah has made a claim and we are looking at that claim. But regardless I want to be friends with you and let the world see that Bahis and Christians can get along and show a good example of religion as religion has taken a bad hit from terrorism and other things.
 
JimmyDFG said:
Luke 18:14
I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted
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It was a joke Jimmy 🙂

Please, go back and look at when I posted a Kramer gif.

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ffg said:
No.

your logic above is completely disconnected from your question.

You asked if folks are sure Jesus did not come back as something else that does not exist per anything that has been revealed or taught either through the good soil that is Judaism, or the vine that grows from that soul, Christianity.

Did you google ‘I came so that’ yet?

Just so you know, better to ask why then do what you did here, and put words in someone’s mouth. Follow Tony’s example there.
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Simply trying to distinguish between divine guidance and human opinion.

I cannot be convinced of my right but of the Word of God I can.

So no man knows the hour or day us true until it happens. The reason we are able to now know is because the event has come to pass. And the Books are now unsealed so we know with divine certainty what they mean.

I always mess up posts, I’m human so please forgive me. And I will make more mistakes and apologise in advance.😈😈😈😈

I’m just trying to ask the question about self certainty because many people who are absolutely certain have been absolutely wrong. So when I asked if people are absolutely certain Jesus couldn’t have come and the answer was yes I wondered how this certainty came about because I have seen Christ coming in the clouds with angels.

Of course Christ came to give life. The thief metaphor is only that He will come unexpectedly and may catch people off guard or asleep.
 
eddie_too said:
a bahai cannot fathom a love deeper than bahaullah getting imprisoned and forced to live in a mansion for the last 12 years of his life. does that sound like someone who understand the Passion and Crucifixion of Jesus Christ? does that sound like someone who understands the scripture that says, greater love than this has NO man, than to lay down His life for His friends? what can we say about a person who thinks a man who has three wives and dies in a mansion is more significant and a better teacher of love than the Perfect Man who left heaven to submit Himself freely to all of the indignities of life in this world and ultimately to a death by extreme torture?
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I think most Baha’is I know see comparisons in ministry of the Bab … Siyyid Ali Muhammad and Jesus of Nazareth… Both were young in Their early thirties… Both were harshly persecuted and condemned by the religious establishment of the time in which They lived. Both were martyred and after an unjust trial… There are some ways in which the Bab made the way for Baha’u’llah similar to the John the Baptist preparing the way for Jesus. Baha’u’llah also lived His life mostly imprisoned although His family had high position with Muhammad Shah. His feet were whipped and He was forced to walk bare footed… He was cast into prison and heavy chains bound Him that left impressions on His frame… Attempts were made to poison Him and kill Him.

The following are just a few summaries of the life of Baha’u’llah:

bahai-library.com/compilation_suffering_bahaullah

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1’u’ll%C3%A1h

Moses was persecuted and driven out into the desert, Abraham was banished, Muhammad took refuge in caves, the Báb was killed and Bahá’u’lláh was exiled and imprisoned forty years. Yet all of Them desired fellowship and love among men. They endured hardships, suffered persecution and death for our sakes that we might be taught to love one another and be united and affiliated instead of discordant and at variance.
(Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 234)
 
ffg said:
No apologies needed. I think there is an old saying to be careful trusting someone who claims they are (insert virtue here).

Let others claim virtue of you, this is how folks will know.

I’m glad to see your note though because it clarifies a point. I won’t stop trying to explain the Catholic view of fullness, but until I hear differently from a Baha’i, I will not claim Bahai thinks it has the fullness of truth.

Thanks for clarifying.

Take care,

Mike
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Totally agree with everything you posted here Mike.

God bless you and thank you!

Kam
 
worldcitizen said:
HimKam where did everyone go?
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Im confident my Middle Eastern humour isn’t offensive to our Catholic brothers and sisters.

I certainly didn’t imply immorality or inhumane qualities upon them.

They are beautiful resilient souls. They will assuredly return to the conversation.

I must say though that they have many times said we move goalposts and do not answer questions.

I would love to hear which question has been avoided so we can be of service here. And what are the goalposts?

God bless all our Catholic friends here 🙂

.
 
worldcitizen said:
HimKam where did everyone go?
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Sleep.

I’m in USA eastern time zone, though in a state that scratches it’s head about being Midwest or east.

I’d say Mideast is reality, but someone already has a claim to the term.

I’ll answer hopefully in a few hours.

I don’t like using the phone here unless it’s fairly quick, since mistakes are easier, as I saw above soul went in for soil.

Take care,

Mike
 
I want to talk about something very, very, very, close to my heart, soul and mind and spirit.

I read today that a Buddhist monk was attacked by someone thinking he was a Muslim. Very upsetting.

kval.com/news/local/buddhist-monk-apparently-mistaken-as-muslim-attacked-in-hood-river

He was not a Muslim of course and even if he was he was innocent. Now I was also abused today rather severely. I’ll post the story in a minute. But I’m terribly, terribly concerned what’s being taught to today’s religionists. Superiority! Supremacy? Love?

Now, if love is being taught then why are these hate attacks becoming so common & increasing?? And how do we stop them? I DONT experience them here but clearly religions must educate their people better that everyone is human first and also how to handle verses like Romans 12 :9 because otherwise we have pretexts for hate.

Here’s the post…

I was abused online today. Very upsetting. Told I was evil and to get out of a forum and that my religion was false. The persons both were Catholic and quoted some Bible verse saying to ‘hate evil’ and that I was that evil and a liar. they know I’m a Baha’i so they linked to a website saying our religion is false etc. I can ignore them but where are these hate crimes having their origin? Are people being taught this in church or secretly??

Romans 12:9

Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. (Said I was that evil)

This is the website they quoted that we Baha’is are from the ‘**pits of hell’ **how nice.

jesus-is-savior.com/False…s_of_bahai.htm

**You won’t find on all the internet one Bahai website condemning Christianity or Catholicism and never ever will. **

I thought Christ taught to love one another but is this teaching receding into the background and not emphasised anymore or not much?

Very disappointing that religion is being used as a tool to hate people of other religions.

Whatever differences people have doctrinally shouldn’t be allowed to manifest itself in hate crimes or hate speech and more needs to be done to educate people that this is not the way of God.

LOVE TO ALL you’re ALL TERRIFIC!!❤️❤️❤️
 
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