Comparative Religion and General Faith Discussion

[ffg]

Mike - We see the fullness of Truth in all the Scriptures. Many writings show this to be so. A lot of meaning is Hidden and Hidden for a reason. If it was plain then Free Will can not be fully used. It is the ability to use free will to its capacity that allows for Pure Love or Stainless hearts to become manifest.

Of course such a pitiful explanation for why it is all so!

God bless and regards Tony

Hi Tony, I don’t think I responded to this one, sorry.

We know a very miniscule amount about God. A fraction so small, to consider it a fraction is too big.

What we do know is enough for us to:

1. know He is,
2. Know he Loves us,
3. know we must love Him back if we want a relationship with Him forever.
4. know if we reject Him we will be lonely forever.

Love by it’s definition is not forceful, so if we know those things above, there is not another thing in reality that is necessary for Free Will to be absolutely free.

Nothing.

Hidden, not hidden, Nothing.

Free will is, because of how love works and how God is love.

Take care,

Mike

 

[TonyBS]

A study of the Revelation of the Bab beings up many amazing observations about God and His Revelations.

The proofs this Revelation is from God is undebateable if one is just. The way the Revelation unfolded is uncanningly identical to that of Jesus the Christ, the Power of how it was Revealed is not matched in Religious History, the flow of the revealed word an unmatched torrent that continued on to Baha’u’llah.

It would be great to discuss the Birth of this Revelation as it is to date, The Greatest Story Ever Told!

Of course I may be a little bias

God bless and regards Tony

 

[eddie_too]

to servant 19,

yes, i love mohammed. yes, i believe mohammed was a real human being who lived in the fifth or sixth century after Christ.

i do not believe the koran came through the inspiration of almighty God.

in this respect, my love and belief concerning mohammed are very similar to my love and belief concerning joseph smith who founded the church of Jesus Christ and the latter day saints.

i believe joseph smith was a real human being who lived in mid 19th century america. he also taught that a spirit visited him and dictated the book of mormon to him. very much like mohammed’s claim that a spirit visited him and gave him the koran.

just as i do not believe the koran came through the inspiration of almighty God, i do not believe the book of mormon came through the inspiration of almighty God.

 

[ffg]

Dearest Mike. Can I call you Mike? Thanks for being so gentle and kind. if I fail to answer some questions its not deliberate so please forgive. I’ve got about 56 emails to answer and I miss one or two. Sincerest apologies. -David. love to be your friend

Also please understand from the outset my intention and focus is the oneness of mankind NOT to take anyone away from their religion. I am not just a Baha’i but a Christian as well. We just discuss and challenge point and counter point. It’s good spiritual exercise and we all learn but the BOTTOM LINE for me is if we can be friends and show to the world that religion is not about wars, conflict and division but even Baha’is and Christians can be friends without animosity. When people see religionists loving one another they might come back to God. That’s my real hope.

Love to you and your family and remember please. Regardless of however firm are my convictions I’m not in the slightest bit interested in converting you to my religion. I converted my self to Bahai no one did it so it’s a personal thing and we all must respect each other’s choice but that doesn’t mean we can’t have robust discussions to find out if it is tru that Christ returned or not as it is very important for Christians that it would be unthinkable to deny Jesus thus the need to be absolutely sure. So Baha’u’llah has made a claim and we are looking at that claim. But regardless I want to be friends with you and let the world see that Bahis and Christians can get along and show a good example of religion as religion has taken a bad hit from terrorism and other things.

Hi David (If I may),

Yes, you can call me mike, you can hold the dearest though, as I have one. (a joke, it really doesn’t bother me)

ffg stands for ‘fight for good’, a screen name I’ve had forever on other sites, which I think the software ‘disqus’ picked up as the login seems to work on sites where that is used. If I have a question for an Atheist, I occasionally ask over at strangenotions.com, that shows my name as fightforgood.

I think when I signed up for this site, it was taken.

You need not be concerned about me thinking you want to convert me.

I don’t share the effect that religious friendship has good effects for those on the outside, I think it is confusing for them.

I think when people start coming around to religion, it’s a hunt for truth. Religious friendship is nice, but doesn’t lead one searching, to the truth. I don’t think they find that aspect as a draw.

My best friend going back almost 30 years is an Atheist, though we never really talk religion (probably more appropriately for an Atheist, ‘talk truth’).

I like great challenging discussions too.

You may have noticed I haven’t used the name you give God (assumingly). for a few reasons:

1. I know God’s name is God and the second person of the trinity is Jesus and He is God, if for no other reason, because people use those names as swear words, which is the purpose of the 3rd commandment.
2. I don’t see anything about it in the Judeo-Christian lineage, so I can’t speak to it.
3. I don’t want to miss-use it, it’s not my place to use it.

Thanks for the kind note.

Take care,

Mike

 

[eddie_too]

we know that Jesus has not returned because Jesus is the man who died on the cross. Jesus is the man who was conceived of the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the man who was born of the Virgin Mary.

to date, that man has not appeared. many have appeared claiming to be Him. but, none of them were conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. none of them possessed a glorified body.

all of those who claim(ed) to be the return of Jesus were born of a human father and a human mother. all of them were buried and their bodies turned to dust.

 

[Techno2000]

Jesus is not God…Baha’u’llah is the return of Jesus who is now God.

 

[eddie_too]

from a bahai, "The proofs this Revelation is from God is undebateable if one is just. The way the Revelation unfolded is uncanningly identical to that of Jesus the Christ, the Power of how it was Revealed is not matched in Religious History, the flow of the revealed word an unmatched torrent that continued on to Baha’u’llah."

i think comparing the power of bab to the power of Jesus Christ results in having to face the fact that Jesus established a Church that has survived nearly two millenium while the bab founded nothing.

in doing our comparison, we should also face the fact that Jesus raised Himself from the dead through His own power and left His tomb empty, His physical body transformed while the physical body of the bab was placed in a grave and became food for worms (not meant to insult anyone, all of our bodies end up food for worms).

in our comparison, we should also face the fact that through the power of Jesus Christ His followers have worked many miracles down through the ages including raising the dead to life while the power of bab did no such thing.

in our comparison, we should also face the fact that through the power of Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Holy Trinity indwells in the Roman Catholic Church.

in our comparison, we should also face the fact that through the power of Jesus Christ human sins are forgiven while the bab possessed no such power.

in our comparison, we should also face the fact that through the power of Jesus Christ human beings were given salvation and mankind was redeemed while the bab’s power accomplished nothing of the sort.

i am sure others can come up with more examples of the immense difference in the power of Jesus Christ compared to the power of the bab.

 

[ffg]

Simply trying to distinguish between divine guidance and human opinion.

I cannot be convinced of my right but of the Word of God I can.

So no man knows the hour or day us true until it happens. The reason we are able to now know is because the event has come to pass. And the Books are now unsealed so we know with divine certainty what they mean.

I always mess up posts, I’m human so please forgive me. And I will make more mistakes and apologise in advance.������������������������

I’m just trying to ask the question about self certainty because many people who are absolutely certain have been absolutely wrong. So when I asked if people are absolutely certain Jesus couldn’t have come and the answer was yes I wondered how this certainty came about because I have seen Christ coming in the clouds with angels.

Of course Christ came to give life. The thief metaphor is only that He will come unexpectedly and may catch people off guard or asleep.

I think after this, I’m caught up, and this will probably be my last today. (I try not to be on here on the weekends, but sometimes I do a little from the phone).

Focus on the bold -

This is not what you asked, you asked specifically that we knew with absolute certainty that Jesus didn’t come back as what is taught in Bahai (assuming as, what Bahai call God).

That was why the confirmation ‘yes’ was easy.

Take care,

Mike

 

[eddie_too]

to servant19, you said this, "I would love to hear which question has been avoided so we can be of service here. And what are the goalposts?"

why do you not read my posts? they are filled with very specific questions and the other bahai seldom, if ever, answer any of them.

i recommend you go back and find my posts and answer my questions. it has been illuminating to me how diligently the bahai ignore my questions.

 

[TonyBS]

I think comparing the power of bab to the power of Jesus Christ results in having to face the fact that Jesus established a Church that has survived nearly two millenium while the bab founded nothing.

The Bab founded the 2nd most widespread religion on this planet and it took less than 150 years. The Bab and Baha’u’llah are Twin Manifestations with distinct revelations bound in One Faith for all time.

Only prejudice can seperate the Mission of Christ and the Mission of the Bab. The Life of Both, the Message and Sacrifice are mirrored in each of them.

Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

Hi Tony, I don’t think I responded to this one, sorry.

We know a very miniscule amount about God. A fraction so small, to consider it a fraction is too big.

What we do know is enough for us to:

1. know He is,
2. Know he Loves us,
3. know we must love Him back if we want a relationship with Him forever.
4. know if we reject Him we will be lonely forever.

Love by it’s definition is not forceful, so if we know those things above, there is not another thing in reality that is necessary for Free Will to be absolutely free.

Nothing.

Hidden, not hidden, Nothing.

Free will is, because of how love works and how God is love.

Take care,

Mike

What a beautiful and soul-stirring post Mike.

Thank you for sharing your perspective on true Catholic teaching

.

 

[worldcitizen]

Jesus is not God…Baha’u’llah is the return of Jesus who is now God.

Hi Joey,

Baha’u’llah is NOT God. Please clear that up in your mind. He is a Manifestation or reflection of God but not God Himself in essence.

He is God’s Representative or Mouthpiece. So when Baha’u’llah says “I am God” it is God saying that through Baha’u’llah’s Pen or Mouth.

Baha’u’llah was SENT by God and speaks for God but Baha’u’llah is NOT God and I cannot stress that enough.

We can pray to Baha’u’llah as long as in our minds there is the clear understanding that when we pray to Him it’s as a Manifestation of God not God Himself.

“Under no circumstances, however, can we, while repeating the prayers, insert the name Bahá’u’lláh where the word ‘God’ is used. This would be tantamount to a blasphemy.”

Shoghi Efdendi

Excerpt From: Hornby. “Lights of Guidance.” iBooks.

God is God and Baha’u’llah is Baha’u’llah. Two entirely different entities. But God chose Baha’u’llah to fulfill the prophecies and made Him the Father etc according to our beliefs

And I am David and you are Joey.

 

[Servant19]

to servant 19,

yes, i love mohammed. yes, i believe mohammed was a real human being who lived in the fifth or sixth century after Christ.

i do not believe the koran came through the inspiration of almighty God.

in this respect, my love and belief concerning mohammed are very similar to my love and belief concerning joseph smith who founded the church of Jesus Christ and the latter day saints.

i believe joseph smith was a real human being who lived in mid 19th century america. he also taught that a spirit visited him and dictated the book of mormon to him. very much like mohammed’s claim that a spirit visited him and gave him the koran.

just as i do not believe the koran came through the inspiration of almighty God, i do not believe the book of mormon came through the inspiration of almighty God.

Thank you dear eddie.

I wonder if you can let go of your mind, dig deep with a prayerful spirit, and gush out more love?

I know it’s in there, you are human. That reserve of love is definitely in there, it wil flood the world if the spirit is not restrained in any way

God bless you!

.

 

[JimmyDFG]

Only prejudice can seperate the Mission of Christ and the Mission of the Bab. The Life of Both, the Message and Sacrifice are mirrored in each of them.

Regards Tony

They are not “mirrored”.
Christ is responsible for Christianity. Bab and baha’u’llah are responsible for bahaism. Two different religions, two totally different teachings

 

[Techno2000]

Hi Joey,

Baha’u’llah is NOT God. Please clear that up in your mind. He is a Manifestation or reflection of God but not God Himself in essence.

He is God’s Representative or Mouthpiece. So when Baha’u’llah says “I am God” it is God saying that through Baha’u’llah’s Pen or Mouth.

Baha’u’llah was SENT by God and speaks for God but Baha’u’llah is NOT God and I cannot stress that enough.

We can pray to Baha’u’llah as long as in our minds there is the clear understanding that when we pray to Him it’s as a Manifestation of God not God Himself.

“Under no circumstances, however, can we, while repeating the prayers, insert the name Bahá’u’lláh where the word ‘God’ is used. This would be tantamount to a blasphemy.”

Shoghi Efdendi

Excerpt From: Hornby. “Lights of Guidance.” iBooks.

God is God and Baha’u’llah is Baha’u’llah. Two entirely different entities. But God chose Baha’u’llah to fulfill the prophecies and made Him the Father etc according to our beliefs

And I am David and you are Joey.

So can you explain to me why Servant 19 prays to Baha’u’llah ?

 

[Servant19]

to servant19, you said this, "I would love to hear which question has been avoided so we can be of service here. And what are the goalposts?"

why do you not read my posts? they are filled with very specific questions and the other bahai seldom, if ever, answer any of them.

i recommend you go back and find my posts and answer my questions. it has been illuminating to me how diligently the bahai ignore my questions.

Hi eddie,

I think you have been an active contributor to Baha’i threads for well nigh two years now

In that two years we have answered many (admittedly not all because you pose a lot of questions) of your questions as well as the questions of others.

Recently it is noted that you are repeating questions you have had answered in the past or the occasional unique questions you might ask have been answered in other posts to others.

We cannot be responsible for answering the same question a handful of times simply because the same question is posed by different posters on the same, or recent threads.

If the search into Baha’i is sincere, then a search on CAF will provide an answer.

I have not once seen any poster bring up a quote from a Baha’i written on a past thread, asking for further information.

I sense too many here are blinded by the motto “defend my Faith at all and any cost” which leaves gaps in your sincerity of questioning

.

 

[JimmyDFG]

Hi Joey,

Baha’u’llah is NOT God. Please clear that up in your mind. He is a Manifestation or reflection of God but not God Himself in essence.

He is God’s Representative or Mouthpiece. So when Baha’u’llah says “I am God” it is God saying that through Baha’u’llah’s Pen or Mouth.

Baha’u’llah was SENT by God and speaks for God but Baha’u’llah is NOT God and I cannot stress that enough.

We can pray to Baha’u’llah as long as in our minds there is the clear understanding that when we pray to Him it’s as a Manifestation of God not God Himself.

“Under no circumstances, however, can we, while repeating the prayers, insert the name Bahá’u’lláh where the word ‘God’ is used. This would be tantamount to a blasphemy.”

Shoghi Efdendi

Excerpt From: Hornby. “Lights of Guidance.” iBooks.

God is God and Baha’u’llah is Baha’u’llah. Two entirely different entities. But God chose Baha’u’llah to fulfill the prophecies and made Him the Father etc according to our beliefs

And I am David and you are Joey.

Don’t the baha’i worship baha’u’llah?

 

[Servant19]

They are not “mirrored”.
Christ is responsible for Christianity. Bab and baha’u’llah are responsible for bahaism. Two different religions, two totally different teachings

Only if one looks at names and worldly things Jimmy

In Spirit they are one and the same. The observing of names is a fleshly observation.

Look for the Spirit which gives life.

What do you understand from “looking for the Spirit”?

.

 

[Servant19]

So can you explain to me why Servant 19 prays to Baha’u’llah ?

I pray to Baha’u’llah because there is NOTHING more (not one dot) that I can possibly conceive about God other than the Person of Baha’u’llah

Even in heaven, my only comprehension of God is founded in the Person of Baha’u’llah

A human beings pinnacle of existence through all of eternity is to get closer to Baha’u’llah, “thus far and no further.” He is the Sadrat’ul-Muntaha (the Tree Beyond Which there is no Passing)

.

 

[Techno2000]

I pray to Baha’u’llah because there is NOTHING more (not one dot) that I can possibly conceive about God other than the Person of Baha’u’llah

Even in heaven, my only comprehension of God is founded in the Person of Baha’u’llah

A human beings pinnacle of existence through all of eternity is to get closer to Baha’u’llah, “thus far and no further.” He is the Sadrat’ul-Muntaha (the Tree Beyond Which there is no Passing)

.

So when Jesus manifested as Baha’u’llah, that is when Jesus became God too ?