Comparative Religion and General Faith Discussion

[ffg]

Dear Catholic friends,

The other day I wrongfully posted a link to an anti Catholic website on this forum and I want to apologise and say sorry if I upset anyone and ask your forgiveness.

I was quoting what they were saying about Bahai and had no idea they were anti Catholic until I was informed by the moderator, if I knew I would never have posted that here.

Sincere apologies

David

Thanks David,

I thought I saw a longer one that I didn’t get to, but it seemed to be missing when I was going to get there.

At least I know I’m not going nuts, yet.

Though, my wife might think differently.

Take care,

Mike

 

[worldcitizen]

To unravel the mysteries of the Bible and it’s verses, purity of heart is required not academic learning or theological training.

One clear example of this is where Christ’s symbolical spiritual concepts were understood by unlearned disciples but baffled the theologians of that day the, academically learned Pharisees and Sadducess.

Today it’s the same. Many in the world who are academically trained and theologically learned cannot see who Baha’u’llah is but simple people without any previous training can see it as clear as the sun. And bask in the glory of Christ’s return.

Purity of heart is not something gained from theological or academic training which can often be an obstacle and a veil to seeing the truth.

That is why we must strive to be worthy in order to see the truth and look with an open and unbiased mind at what Baha’u’llah says perhaps we may be given some insight and understanding we did not previously have.

 

[ffg]

To unravel the mysteries of the Bible and it’s verses, purity of heart is required not academic learning or theological training.

One clear example of this is where Christ’s symbolical spiritual concepts were understood by unlearned disciples but baffled the theologians of that day the, academically learned Pharisees and Sadducess.

Today it’s the same. Many in the world who are academically trained and theologically learned cannot see who Baha’u’llah is but simple people without any previous training can see it as clear as the sun. And bask in the glory of Christ’s return.

Purity of heart is not something gained from theological or academic training which can often be an obstacle and a veil to seeing the truth.

That is why we must strive to be worthy in order to see the truth and look with an open and unbiased mind at what Baha’u’llah says perhaps we may be given some insight and understanding we did not previously have.

Those who walked with Jesus, didn’t necessarily understand, but through seeing signs (miracles), they knew they might if they kept learning from Jesus. That’s why during the hardest teaching, they said through Peter something to the effect, ‘to whom shall we go, we believe you know what you are saying, so we’ll keep hanging out with you and you can keep trying to get us to understand.’

I don’t think understanding necessarily came until the last supper, where they could say, ’ ah! Got it, if you are God, you can do anything. What love and humility to make yourself accessible in bread and wine. Now that whole gnaw on You makes sense, though odd. You are God we will do this in memory of you.

Take care,

Mike

 

[Techno2000]

That is why we must strive to be worthy in order to see the truth and look with an open and unbiased mind at what Baha’u’llah says perhaps we may be given some insight and understanding we did not previously have.

That’s the part I’ve been waiting for, understanding and insight please tell us what you have found that has made you become enlightened.

 

[MartinJordan]

The Mass was established to commemorate the Last Supper as Christ had said to do in remembrance of Him. Many Christian churches break bread in different ways to commemorate it.

No. The Mass was not established to commemorate the Last Supper.

MJ

 

[worldcitizen]

Those who walked with Jesus, didn’t necessarily understand, but through seeing signs (miracles), they knew they might if they kept learning from Jesus. That’s why during the hardest teaching, they said through Peter something to the effect, ‘to whom shall we go, we believe you know what you are saying, so we’ll keep hanging out with you and you can keep trying to get us to understand.’

I don’t think understanding necessarily came until the last supper, where they could say, ’ ah! Got it, if you are God, you can do anything. What love and humility to make yourself accessible in bread and wine. Now that whole gnaw on You makes sense, though odd. You are God we will do this in memory of you.

Take care,

Mike

Beautifully put Mike.

God gives unconditional love to all. Even those who reject Him He gives light and the sun, moon , stars, rain, food and comforts and He never asks for anything in return. What a true Friend, He even sent His Son to die for us His precious Son He sacrificed that we may learn this unconditional love yet we crucified Him

Today man is absorbed in things and fads and has forgotten that beautiful unconditional selfless love which Christ taught. Today the only medicine for a war tired, confused world is that pure unconditional love which can only come from God.

The world must be saturated with unconditional love then it can be healed. Then will tears be transformed into joy and happiness. The world needs this love badly. Imagine if we can all just see the Face of God in each other and nothing else how we could come together and work together for peace and helping the poor and educating souls.

I am English, he is Muslim, they are democrats and with that we have a world divided against itself. The only common denominator the world has is God and our humanity. If we cannot turn to God then we can all celebrate our common humanity and find peace in that until we find God.

I see the world and the religions and people blaming each other and killing each other when everything they have is given to them by a God who wanted to teach us what unconditional love is.

The sun shines on both the good and the wicked. All the atoms in existence are united and bound together by the law of attraction which is love.

There is nothing in existence which doesn’t teach love. Yet we fight over anything and everything we can find to exalt one over the other. I just want you and me to try and have unconditional love as God loves us. And then spread that unconditional love everywhere until it stops wars and has birds singing in trees everywhere and humanity is at peace.

God has taught us this unconditional, selfless love for thousands of years but we have yet to learn it. I believe we can learn it because we are all created in His Image so we can do it.

Love to you brother.

 

[JimmyDFG]

But for a Baha’i we refer to the Book that we believe broke the seals of Daniel and Revelation and apply it’s meanings to the Bible as we believe it was written by the Lion , the Root of David and explains the true meanings.

I apologize for interrupting and off topic …

worldcitizen, Can you explain on the above statement please.

 

[eddie_too]

the books of sacred scripture were not written to or for people without the faith or belief that produced them. they were written to specific faith communities. they were not written to persuade non-believers. they were written to strengthen the faith of believers.

that is why those without that faith cannot comprehend the meanings those books were written to convey. that is why when those without that faith read the books they come away with false interpretations. the books of sacred scripture serve to confuse the faithless and we see this constantly in these forums where much of the discussion is false interpretations by non-believers and corrections of those false interpretations by faithful believers.

trying to educate non-believers in the faith is fruitless, although God is always able to use error to His advantage and i have no intention of limiting God’s power, mostly because they do not enter these conversations to learn. you cannot learn, in any effective sense, about what you refuse to believe. you can memorize what others believe and repeat it back, but you cannot understand what you refuse to believe.

always, belief precedes understanding.

for example, i do not believe either bab or bahaullah were directly inspired by God. consequently, i cannot understand why the bahai believe that Jesus’ teachings needed to be changed. i cannot understand why the bahai believe in bab or bahaullah because i see nothing i need in the teachings their followers proclaim that i had not already received through my faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ…

i can believe and understand my need for the forgiveness of sins provided to me only through Jesus’ sacrificial death and that without that forgiveness there is no way to be with God. i can believe and understand that the only effective way for human beings to be united and at peace with one another in this world is through the fruits of the indwelling of the Third Person of the Holy Trinity; and that said indwelling exists only because it was freely given to mankind by Jesus.

i have asked the question before of the bahai, why should i believe bab or bahaullah were sent to mankind by God.

i have been saved through the Cross (i use Cross here in the same sense as i have before usedthe phrase the Gospel of Jesus Christ) of Christ. i have been united with mankind through the Cross of Christ. i live in peace with others through the Cross of Christ. i lack nothing in this world if i place my faith in the Cross of Jesus Christ.

why should i put bab or bahaullah between myself and Jesus?

 

[eddie_too]

to make the point of my last post more succinctly, only those who profess the faith that produced the sacred scriptures can adequately understand them.

 

[Techno2000]

Sorry for interrupting but this is exposing the Bahai concept of prayer in detail

“…We must not be rigid about praying; there is not a set of rules
governing it; the main thing is we must start out with the right
concept of God, the Manifestation, the Master, the Guardian – we can
turn, in thought, to any one of them when we pray. For instance you can
ask Baha’u’llah for some thing, or, thinking of Him, ask God for it.
The same is true of the Master or the Guardian. You can turn in thought to
either of them and then ask their intercession, or pray direct to
God. As long as you don’t confuse their stations, and make them all equal,
it does not matter much how you orient your thoughts.”
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual
believer, July 24, 1946)

More confusion… who is the “Master” and “the Guardian”… which one is equal… to whom one asks through intercession only…and to whom one asks directly ?

 

[TonyBS]

That’s the part I’ve been waiting for, understanding and insight please tell us what you have found that has made you become enlightened.

I think it is The Oneness of God in The Heart.

I lot of Baha’is have told me that they thought if there was a God, then it stood to reason he would look after all mankind at The same time.

The dead in Christ rise first may be because we have not formulated ant pre conceived ideas re Jesus the Christ or in fact any Messenger. Thus when we find a message written that says God is One and in all, the prior thought of the Oneness of God in all appears to resonate in ones Soul.

It is pure bounty though as God searches for the most wayward of people and offers them His message. Why?

Well it is written that in this way it shows that complete transforming power of Gods Word, that people so unworthy embrace the new Message and become a new race of men.

Of Course some of the learned do accept and they become the giants and hero’s of Faith.

Many Divines accepted the Bab and this was a unique thing about His revelation.

God bless and regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

More confusion… who is the “Master” and “the Guardian”… which one is equal… to whom one asks through intercession only…and to whom one asks directly ?

Baha’u’llah Son was known as the Master and His Grandson was Shoghi Effendi. Both were appointed through the Covernant of Baha’u’llah. After Shoghi Effendi came the Universal House of Justice.

Both Abdul’Baha and Shoghi Effendi had conferred Infalability.

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

I apologize for interrupting and off topic …

worldcitizen, Can you explain on the above statement please.

The book David would refer you to is Tue Kitab-i-iquan, The Book of Certitude.

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

the books of sacred scripture were not written to or for people without the faith or belief that produced them. they were written to specific faith communities. they were not written to persuade non-believers. they were written to strengthen the faith of believers.?

That is so wrong that it needs to be pointed out.

Regards Tony

 

[eddie_too]

perhaps a person needs to learn more about the books of sacred scripture and their authors.

for example, all of the letters of st. paul were written to specific communities of believers and were intended by st. paul to benefit them. that is why they were preserved by these communities and ultimately made part of the canon of sacred scripture by the Church to which these communities belong.

the same is true of the prophets, such as jeremiah and ezechiel.

 

[JimmyDFG]

The book David would refer you to is Tue Kitab-i-iquan, The Book of Certitude.

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/

Regards Tony

How does this “broke the seals”?

 

[TonyBS]

Those who walked with Jesus, didn’t necessarily understand, but through seeing signs (miracles), they knew they might if they kept learning from Jesus. That’s why during the hardest teaching, they said through Peter something to the effect, ‘to whom shall we go, we believe you know what you are saying, so we’ll keep hanging out with you and you can keep trying to get us to understand.’

I don’t think understanding necessarily came until the last supper, where they could say, ’ ah! Got it, if you are God, you can do anything. What love and humility to make yourself accessible in bread and wine. Now that whole gnaw on You makes sense, though odd. You are God we will do this in memory of you.

Take care, Mike

Mike - This was well put and I would like to add another thought as well. It was their struggle to understand what Christ was telling them that adds merit to the explanation of the Resurrection of Christ from the Bahai Writings

"Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ’s resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost, for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it. Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection. reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-23.html

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

perhaps a person needs to learn more about the books of sacred scripture and their authors.

for example, all of the letters of st. paul were written to specific communities of believers and were intended by st. paul to benefit them. that is why they were preserved by these communities and ultimately made part of the canon of sacred scripture by the Church to which these communities belong.

the same is true of the prophets, such as jeremiah and ezechiel.

Perhaps one needs to have in their Heart that Jesus the Christ is for all Humanity and His Word likewise was for all Humanity. It matters not that the letter was addressed to one individual of a group of people or even a nation. The Word is all Embracing to guide every Man. It can be thought of as no less, if we do we take away from the Word of God as Given by Jesus the Christ.

It must also be considered that to consider in any other way is not the “Fullness of Truth” as keeps getting quoted on this site.

God bless and Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

How does this “broke the seals”?

This book was written to the Uncle of the Bab that questioned how His nephew could be the Promised One.

The explanation broke the seals to all the Religions of the Past. It explains how each of the Revelations came from God by starting with the first and working up through the Revelations, until it proves the mission of the Bab. It also foretells of His own Revelation that was to come after the writing of this Book.

This book cements for all time what is the Oneness of God.

Regards Tony

 

[JimmyDFG]

Which teaching of the Baha’i Faith is not the same. Let’s focus on some of them, one at a time.

.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
1384
The Lord addresses an invitation to us, urging us to receive him in the sacrament of the Eucharist: "Truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you

1385
To respond to this invitation we must prepare ourselves for so great and so holy a moment. St. Paul urges us to examine our conscience: "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself."Anyone conscious of a grave sin must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion.

This is not of the baha’i faith