Comparing 2018 and 1918...Are we happier?

[Tis_Bearself]

Once again, if everybody was so moral, why did we have organized movements going on in many countries at that time trying to basically destroy the Church?

Why did we have lynching going on all over the place in USA, and Klan rallies bigger than a Super Bowl parade (there are photos of these)?

Why did we end up having not one, but TWO World Wars?

Why did Our Lady of Fatima appear talking about how we all better do penance for the massive sins going on? I don’t think she was saying “Everything is okay now but just wait till the 2000s, people will have seriously gotten so much more sinful.”

People have ALWAYS been rampantly sinful and immoral. If anything, it was worse 100 years ago because we had no insight into anything happening outside our local area and little means or motivation to do anything about it.

I can understand wishing for a simpler life even if it means you physically labor all day growing food, weaving cloth, and walking 10 miles to graze your sheep, but people weren’t more moral. More tired, yes, more moral, no.

 

[alice24]

says who…?
A 14 hour working fabric worker has most of his day faced only a noisy machine and some minutes his wife in the evening - if he was able to marry.
A deeper faith is a sweet wish. Don´t mix faith and the position of religion in a state. Especially the beginning of the 20th century was a time of fast and deep going secularization, splitted families caused by poverty and urbanization and uprsing secular ideas as social democracy and psychonanalysis in the “better circles”. Not really a humble time. Very human.

 

[alice24]

People have ALWAYS been rampantly sinful and immoral. If anything, it was worse 100 years ago because we had no insight into anything happening outside our local area and little means or motivation to do anything about it.

This!!! The avalability of world news on our phones may persuade us to think the world back then wasn´t big, complicated and ill-faithed. But it was.

 

[angel12]

I’d give you a like but I"m out of them.

I gave him one for you

 

[alice24]

when they could is exactly the point here - many couldn´t. I had to read so many heart touching letters from those people around 1900 who write in extremely long distances and weren´t able to visit each other. They simply weren´t able to take a day off. The working circumstances were often horrible. Many people had to work far away from their families who stayed on the plain land and didn´t saw them often. Modern communication didn´t exchanged face-to-face talks, it filled a gap. It´s like this today in many poorer counries. I have family in the middle east and they aren´t able to visit their wifes when working in the towns - a mobile phone was a blessing for their family connections.

 

[Pup7]

Right, but now it’s far more widespread as relativism advances.

I would say it’s only “far more widespread” because of social media. All this stuff went on back then - we haven’t invented the wheel when it comes to immorality. I think you’d be surprised at how things were in that time. Remember, the legal code was different back then, even if the moral code appeared to be different. We have a lot of things now that have been legislated and are therefore prevented.

Child labor was, by my reckoning, pretty immoral - but it was only beginning to be seen as a massively bad thing. The Triangle Shirtwaist Fire had only happened seven years before, where doors were locked to keep people - specifically women in this case, mostly Jewish and Italian women in the NY garment district at that time - from leaving their workspace.

Eugenics was okay, as Alex mentioned, and racism was closed to codified - not just in the US, but around the world.

We actually do much better today - it’s just in your face 24/7.

 

[Pup7]

1918 might not be the best year to use as a comparison. 1918 saw the end of World War I, one of the bloodiest wars in history. It also saw the start of the Spanish Flu epidemic, which (if the Wikipedia article is accurate) killed 3% to 5% of the world’s population. Not exactly a great year.

I’ve done a lot of research into the 1918 Spanish flu. I love epidemiology.

It killed about 650,000 people in the US alone. Horrible. 1918 was its zenith.

 

[Kei]

Sure we have it MUCH MUCH MUCH better than back then, but are we happier? It is in mans nature to not be satisfied with things of the earth.

 

[Pup7]

I agree. And happiness is relative and can be colored by experience. I was probably happier as a kid than I am overall now - but now I’m an adult with all that entails, so my perspective is different.

 

[Alex337]

In Australia we actually had a codified eugenics program I’m sad to say. It fell under the White Australia policy and was an organised, not hidden, legal attempt to eradicate the indigenous population.

It involved taking children who looked “mixed” off their parents and sending them to work homes or forced adoptions for those who were white enough to pass. The sheer amount of governmental organisation that went into it was hideous.

 

[DarkLight]

I’m interested; how has other people gaining the same rights lessened their rights?

To be fair, that can happen. For example, I no longer have the right to demand a seat on the bus if a black person happens to have gotten there first.

I mean, that’s not exactly a right that I can have without taking someone else’s rights away. But in 1918 it’s a legal right I would have had as a white woman.

I’m sure it’s nice to be allowed legally to take other people’s rights if they don’t work for you. Not right, but it could definitely make your life easier.

 

[StephieNorthCo]

My parents were alive in 1918. Because they were Catholic, they had to be extra careful. There were cross burnings going on. KKK was more active than now.

 

[DarkLight]

That was right after Birth of a Nation was released. I’ve been meaning to watch that - we always talked about that film in aesthetics class. It made for a good discussion on whether artistic merits can be separated from moral aspects of the work.

 

[Theban]

I think that if you’re going to look for an ideal time in history, the 20th Century is a bit too late. After the Industrial Revolution the living standards of the common people fell to unprecedented low levels, and that is something that has only recently been remedied (though only in the West).

The closest thing to an ideal age would probably be Europe after the invention of castles in the 10th Century (much safer from bandits and warlords) up until the Reformation, which created the uber-rich Oligarchs who have ruled society since. Life was pretty good then for most people, especially after the Black Death had run it’s course, and the peak living standards of that time match even our own today.

With that said, however, I would like to add that wishing back to a former time is absurd, seeing as how, when God made us, he did not have a pre-made timeline to simply place us along in different eras. The time we live in is an intrinsic part of who we are, and changing it would be like changing our DNA, we would cease to be ourselves and could not exist as God intended.

 

[Pup7]

That was right after Birth of a Nation was released. I’ve been meaning to watch that - we always talked about that film in aesthetics class. It made for a good discussion on whether artistic merits can be separated from moral aspects of the work.

Holy cow. I want to see it too, for that reason.

Where can you find it?

 

[Pup7]

The closest thing to an ideal age would probably be Europe after the invention of castles in the 10th Century (much safer from bandits and warlords) up until the Reformation, which created the uber-rich Oligarchs who have ruled society since. Life was pretty good then for most people, especially after the Black Death had run it’s course, and the peak living standards of that time match even our own today.

Cholera, open sewers, disease.

I’ll pass. Give me our modern problems.

With that said, however, I would like to add that wishing back to a former time is absurd, seeing as how, when God made us, he did not have a pre-made timeline to simply place us along in different eras. The time we live in is an intrinsic part of who we are, and changing it would be like changing our DNA, we would cease to be ourselves and could not exist as God intended.

It’s not absurd. It’s part of human curiosity. No one is lamenting the era in which we live to the point that we’re closing the curtains and crying in the darkness.

 

[Theban]

Cholera, open sewers, disease.

I’ll pass. Give me our modern problems.

Malaria, lack of clean drinking water, pollution.

See how that works?
But of course there were major issues at that time as well, I’m not denying it.

It’s not absurd. It’s part of human curiosity. No one is lamenting the era in which we live to the point that we’re closing the curtains and crying in the darkness.

What I mean with absurd is that the phrase: “I wish I was living in another time…” is an oxymoron, as a part of the definition of who you are lies in the time you live in.

 

[Pup7]

Malaria, lack of clean drinking water, pollution.

See how that works?

But of course there were major issues at that time as well, I’m not denying it.

United States: no malaria, access to clean water (even if bottled), pollution without open sewers and with modern plumbing.

Context. See how that works?

Give me our modern problems. My modern problems.

 

[Theban]

Haha, of course it all depends on where you set the limit. If you mean that you individually is better off than the average 14th century peasant then I won’t argue, but because that wealth rests on the shoulders of the poor in the Third World, I think it’s more than fair to include them when talking about the problems of our world structure.

 

[Pup7]

Then look no further than the deep Gulf for your malaria, Appalachia for your poor plumbing, Flint for your bad water, and out your front door for the pollution.

You don’t need the Third World. We have all that grandness right here.

I believe it was understood we were speaking of basically where we are right now, but 100 years ago.