Comparing and contrasting Catholicism and Tibetan Buddhism.

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He says he knows many Tibetan Buddhists who are not enlightened and suffer. In the same way I would not encourage Tibetan Buddhists to become Catholic.
That is not a healthy perspective for any Christian. Religious subjectivity does not exist; God lives and wants everyone to be Catholic, whether one is Italian or Japanese. There is no Nirvana(which supposedly cannot be obtained by a layman, by the way); salvation is only through Christ.
 
Young Thinker

Looking from SherabO’s perspective it is healthy, he is a Tibetan Buddhist.
What is it to be a member of the Body of Christ? SherabO does not appear hostile to Christian belief. He does not appear to suffer from invincible ignorance. I encourage him to become more Tibetan Buddhist. I refuse to limit Christ, I am not sure what you mean by religious subjectivity.

Stories are emerging of visions fitting the classic image of Our Lady to the American Indian pre-dating white settlement of America.
There are writings of Christ’s life and crucifixion found in ancient Tibetan Buddhist texts referring to him with great honour.
 
Young Thinker

Looking from SherabO’s perspective it is healthy, he is a Tibetan Buddhist.
What is it to be a member of the Body of Christ? SherabO does not appear hostile to Christian belief. He does not appear to suffer from invincible ignorance. I encourage him to become more Tibetan Buddhist. I refuse to limit Christ, I am not sure what you mean by religious subjectivity.

Stories are emerging of visions fitting the classic image of Our Lady to the American Indian pre-dating white settlement of America.
There are writings of Christ’s life and crucifixion found in ancient Tibetan Buddhist texts referring to him with great honour.
All right, Mr. Wilcox. As for religious subjectivity, it infers that all religions are valid, equal, true, etc. It is a major problem of postmodern thinking.
 
All right, Mr. Wilcox. As for religious subjectivity, it infers that all religions are valid, equal, true, etc. It is a major problem of postmodern thinking.
One way of looking at it. Not mine. Christ I see as Universal. Again I ask, what is it to be a member of the Body of Christ? If it is limited to being a member of the Roman Catholic Church by outward appearance our Faith becomes that of the Pharisee, works only.

Dogma: “If anybody says that the one true God, Our Creator and Lord cannot be known with certainty in the light of human reason by those things which have been made, anathema sit”

Rom 2:14,15: “For when the Gentiles, who know not the (Mosaic) law do by nature these things that are of the law; these, having not the law, are a law to themselves. Who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness to them, and their thoughts between themselves accusing, or also defending one another.”
 
One way of looking at it. Not mine. Christ I see as Universal. Again I ask, what is it to be a member of the Body of Christ? If it is limited to being a member of the Roman Catholic Church by outward appearance our Faith becomes that of the Pharisee, works only.

Dogma: “If anybody says that the one true God, Our Creator and Lord cannot be known with certainty in the light of human reason by those things which have been made, anathema sit”

Rom 2:14,15: “For when the Gentiles, who know not the (Mosaic) law do by nature these things that are of the law; these, having not the law, are a law to themselves. Who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness to them, and their thoughts between themselves accusing, or also defending one another.”
I am being not narrow-minded. For instance, I basically feel that any monotheist(including Akhenaton) who lived before Christ had a chance of entering Abraham’s Bosom(and later Heaven). There is neither justification by faith or works alone; both are needed for salvation. Some Eastern philosophies are not inherently incompatible with Christianity; Confucianism, for instance, could “fit” in with the True Faith. However, there should be no truly religious syncretism(sadly, most Haitian “Catholics” also practice voudou- a clear abomination to God and extremely dangerous to one’s soul). One can only serve one master.
 
I am being not narrow-minded. For instance, I basically feel that any monotheist(including Akhenaton) who lived before Christ had a chance of entering Abraham’s Bosom(and later Heaven). There is neither justification by faith or works alone; both are needed for salvation. Some Eastern philosophies are not inherently incompatible with Christianity; Confucianism, for instance, could “fit” in with the True Faith. However, there should be no truly religious syncretism(sadly, most Haitian “Catholics” also practice voudou- a clear abomination to God and extremely dangerous to one’s soul). One can only serve one master.
With what you post I have difficulty reconciling your argument with your footnotes. Your quoting of Descartes and Freud to justify your position intrigues me. Descartes and Freud,
and you rail against syncretism?

Descartes - "I entirely abandoned the study of letters. Resolving to seek no knowledge other than that of which could be found in myself or else in the great book of the world.’
Descartes declared he was “at war with the Jesuits” - “It is not that arithmetic and geometry are the only sciences to be learned, but that he who would progress on the road to truth must not delay over any object about which he cannot have a certainty equal to that given by arithmetical and geometrical demonstration.”
Can human knowledge be greater than Faith?
Descartes would have us believe God gave matter a first impulse and the rest followed nature, man working out his own salvation by his own reason.

Misguidedly, Freud was deeply appreciative of the wisdom he perceived in withcraft and other occult phenomena. On Saturday evenings he would frequently play tarack - a card game associated with the Kabbalah.
He saw religion as psychology projected onto the external world - as neurotic clinging to religious rituals, “and yet (this) may be true for it fits so well into the frame of my thesis…Religion is patently infantile, so foreign to reality. It is painful to think that the great majority of men will never be able to rise above this view.”

Before people convert to Roman Catholicism I encourage them to fully investigate where they are, what their practice holds for them. Converting is not easy, if we are not fully convinced where we are going is a true path the chances are we will not continue in conversion (consider Lot’s wife).
 
With what you post I have difficulty reconciling your argument with your footnotes. Your quoting of Descartes and Freud to justify your position intrigues me. Descartes and Freud,
and you rail against syncretism?

Descartes - "I entirely abandoned the study of letters. Resolving to seek no knowledge other than that of which could be found in myself or else in the great book of the world.’
Descartes declared he was “at war with the Jesuits” - “It is not that arithmetic and geometry are the only sciences to be learned, but that he who would progress on the road to truth must not delay over any object about which he cannot have a certainty equal to that given by arithmetical and geometrical demonstration.”
Can human knowledge be greater than Faith?
Descartes would have us believe God gave matter a first impulse and the rest followed nature, man working out his own salvation by his own reason.

Misguidedly, Freud was deeply appreciative of the wisdom he perceived in withcraft and other occult phenomena. On Saturday evenings he would frequently play tarack - a card game associated with the Kabbalah.
He saw religion as psychology projected onto the external world - as neurotic clinging to religious rituals, “and yet (this) may be true for it fits so well into the frame of my thesis…Religion is patently infantile, so foreign to reality. It is painful to think that the great majority of men will never be able to rise above this view.”

Before people convert to Roman Catholicism I encourage them to fully investigate where they are, what their practice holds for them. Converting is not easy, if we are not fully convinced where we are going is a true path the chances are we will not continue in conversion (consider Lot’s wife).
Indeed, it is not easy to become a Catholic, but it is certainly not impossible. I like those particular statements from Freud(who was, of course, an atheist whom had been raised in Judaism yet was fascinated certain aspects of the paranormal) and Descartes; that does not mean that I agree that all of their beliefs. For instance, I am probably more of a pessimistic Jungian than an “orthodox” Freudian. Also, I wish to note that the majority of people in Japan practice Buddhism alongside of Shinto (the traditional imperial faith); since Buddhism basically ignores deities, the two faiths are antagonistic of one another. That is an rather interesting phenomenon.
 
Indeed, it is not easy to become a Catholic, but it is certainly not impossible. I like those particular statements from Freud(who was, of course, an atheist whom had been raised in Judaism yet was fascinated certain aspects of the paranormal) and Descartes; that does not mean that I agree that all of their beliefs. For instance, I am probably more of a pessimistic Jungian than an “orthodox” Freudian. Also, I wish to note that the majority of people in Japan practice Buddhism alongside of Shinto (the traditional imperial faith); since Buddhism basically ignores deities, the two faiths are antagonistic of one another. That is an rather interesting phenomenon.
Be careful, you’re moving closer to syncretism. Do you think it possible to live as a Buddhist and practise as a Christian?

(I’m not going to now compare Jungian view with orthodox Catholic belief.)
 
Be careful, you’re moving closer to syncretism. Do you think it possible to live as a Buddhist and practise as a Christian?

(I’m not going to now compare Jungian view with orthodox Catholic belief.)
Oh, I know. But one can be a Jungian psychiatrist(I was intending to become a physician before realizing that I should become a priest) and a faithful Catholic; for one thing, Jung was not a dogmatist like Freud seems to have been. Anyway, no, a Catholic cannot never practice Buddhism. An essential part of Buddhism is reincarnation(with an emphasis social equality rather than that of Hinduism); reaching Nirvana is the ultimate goal of the Eightfold Path. Those core beliefs are utterly incompatible with Christianity. In addition, I was not saying that the common Japanese combination of Buddhism and Shinto is theologically healthy, and that practice was apparently forbidden under the Meiji Emperor.
 
Oh, I know. But one can be a Jungian psychiatrist(I was intending to become a physician before realizing that I should become a priest) and a faithful Catholic; for one thing, Jung was not a dogmatist like Freud seems to have been. Anyway, no, a Catholic cannot never practice Buddhism. An essential part of Buddhism is reincarnation(with an emphasis social equality rather than that of Hinduism); reaching Nirvana is the ultimate goal of the Eightfold Path. Those core beliefs are utterly incompatible with Christianity.
It’s good to meet a faithful Catholic priest;)
Freud, dogmatist? He talked his wife out of her orthodox jewish beliefs. Jung parted company with him because of Freud’s insistence on interpreting data in the way he saw fit rather than listen to the client. Maybe Freud was a dogmatist, but it was to his own dogma.

Buddhism and Catholicism incompatible? Have you discussed this with the Jesuit Zen Buddhist roshis (‘teachers’)?

The morality of the eightfold path is consistent with Catholic practise (if you haven’t yet done so, have a read.)

Buddhism is one of ethical practise.

It is questionable that reincarnation as Buddhism views it today was one of the primary teachings. Some think it slipped in to protect inheritence of material wealth. (A bit like marriage and the Catholic priesthood?)

Reincarnation in Buddhist dhamma - what is re-incarnated? Buddhist ‘doctrine’ is ‘no-self’, there is no self that is inherently existent. Nothing like a hermit crab climbing from one shell to another. This is a Hindu belief that Buddha parted company with. It all has to do with subtle vibration of energy.
When we die we pass on to an afterlife - Is this an interpretation of re-incarnation?
 
It’s good to meet a faithful Catholic priest;)
Freud, dogmatist? He talked his wife out of her orthodox jewish beliefs. Jung parted company with him because of Freud’s insistence on interpreting data in the way he saw fit rather than listen to the client. Maybe Freud was a dogmatist, but it was to his own dogma.

Buddhism and Catholicism incompatible? Have you discussed this with the Jesuit Zen Buddhist roshis (‘teachers’)?

The morality of the eightfold path is consistent with Catholic practise (if you haven’t yet done so, have a read.)

Buddhism is one of ethical practise.

It is questionable that reincarnation as Buddhism views it today was one of the primary teachings. Some think it slipped in to protect inheritence of material wealth. (A bit like marriage and the Catholic priesthood?)

Reincarnation in Buddhist dhamma - what is re-incarnated? Buddhist ‘doctrine’ is ‘no-self’, there is no self that is inherently existent. Nothing like a hermit crab climbing from one shell to another. This is a Hindu belief that Buddha parted company with. It all has to do with subtle vibration of energy.
When we die we pass on to an afterlife - Is this an interpretation of re-incarnation?
Well, I am certainly not ordained yet, but thank you! I have not spoken to any experts upon Zen Buddhism later, but I believe that I know a little about the subject. Yes, Buddhism is more ethical rather truly religious(and, as I have implied, I generally admire their morality), but whether or not reincarnation, per se, is equatible to a dogma as such as that which we have in Catholicism does not undermine its prevalence in the Buddhistic religion and in Eastern faiths as a whole(think of traditional Chinese ancestor-worship, for instance). The idea that enlightenment can be achieved by very few in this particular world(that is, basically by extremely well-mediated monks- like Kwai Chung Caine!) strongly suggests a central belief in transmitigation of some sort. If there is no true soul, then that which is being reincarnated is more akin that of an animal’s spirit(perhaps it can best be thought of as more or less pure energy attached by a mind, or brain if you will; thus, never going out of existence, just being transferred in one way or another). Transmigitation is clearly not the same as dying and going to Heaven or Hell, since the Western(not Platonian) concept of an afterlife always involves an actual soul that is separated from its body. The soul does not going into another body, since a soul has a clear identity which cannot be confused with another and is only associated with higher beings(namely man; interestingly, Buddhists are said to be among those who are the most willing to accept evolution in its entirety). To be reincarnated as a chicken(as in Hinduism) is, I believe, in stark contrast to the concept of a soul. In addition, the possibility of multiple reincarnations, if accepted by a self-identifying Christian, definitely undermines the importance of acceptance of Christ as Savior and good works in this life. Obviously, if one expects to be given “second” chances in later lives, why should one behave in this lifetime? With his mindset, accountability can, to an extent, be prolonged almost indefinitely. The idea of a judging God basically becomes worthless and distorted. Likewise, punishment for deeds in previous lives becomes problematic when dealing with Christian forgiveness and the like(remember the story of the blind beggar in the Gospels who was not being punished for his parents’ sins or his own but essentially to give God glory through later healing?). There is one life and one chance(though God can intervene in our lives, obviously- as He did in St. Paul’s). I could keep going “on and on” but I am really tired and, frankly, have some other things that I have do. Besides, I am probably beginning to not make any sense. As for Freud, he was indeed dogmatic(according to his own dogmas)- screaming or even hating with those whom he disagreed! Jung, on the other hand, was willing, for instance, acknowledge that his theories were not applicable for many cases and that Freudian or Adlerian concepts tended to be useful in such cases.
 
**Young Thinker **perhaps when you are a little less tired you might like to read arguments against Origens’ spirituality of reincarnation. Even a Church Father can get it wrong:)

I think Purgatory gives us a second chance.

Adler’s research is interesting, he only had one subject test case on which to base his theory:)
 
**Young Thinker **perhaps when you are a little less tired you might like to read arguments against Origens’ spirituality of reincarnation. Even a Church Father can get it wrong:)

I think Purgatory gives us a second chance.

Adler’s research is interesting, he only had one subject test case on which to base his theory:)
All right, but Purgatory is certainly not the same thing as being reincarnated. It is not really a second chance, just “finishing what was left off.” Also, Adler deliberately made his theory simple; that is one of the reasons for its appeal…
 
It is questionable that reincarnation as Buddhism views it today was one of the primary teachings. Some think it slipped in to protect inheritence of material wealth. (A bit like marriage and the Catholic priesthood?)
I do not know about that; the only instance that I can think of is the “succession-law” to Grand Lamacy through reincarnation. However, such ways of thinking seem to be common in the East, like the now-illegal Hindu practice of sutee, as related to rights of property. I do not believe that such a reason is behind clerical celibacy in the Church. However, that was a major reason why eunuchs were often so powerful in China, particularily during the Han Dynasty.
 
Buddhism is a philosophy. It is not a religion. However the ultimate is to achieve ‘Nirvana’ like ‘Heaven’ for Catholics and Christians. I wouldnt say achieving Nirvana is impossible for buddhists but it is nearly so. The reason being Buddhists have to achieve their salvation all on their own by themselves following the Buddha’s teachings, and during their entire lives they cannot break the Five Precepts as there is no forgiveness even if they are repentant for their sins. But being human beings made of flesh and blood this is hardly possible for man and the soul has to travel through ‘Sansara’ until perfection is achieved if it can be achieved.

Catholics and Christians believe in a Creator God and through the Crucifixion and Ressurection of Jesus Christ forgiveness for repentant sinners was made possible thereby making salvation so much easier. This is because of the all consuming never ending love God has for us. This love of our Lord even gives us the grace to turn back from the path of hell to heaven at the eleventh hour if we truly repent for our most horrible sins. Purgatory where we are further purified ensures our journey to our ultimate reunion with God.
 
One of the main reasons I didn’t remain a Buddhist. I recognise I need outside help.
Buddhists also recognize that.
If Buddhists didn’t recognize that they need help. they would not go for refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha.
 
Buddhists also recognize that.
If Buddhists didn’t recognize that they need help. they would not go for refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha.
The ultimate refuge for a Buddhist is in their own innate Buddha nature, their “tathagatagarbha.”
The refuge for a Christian is in a Trascendent God made Imminent in Christ.
 
The ultimate refuge for a Buddhist is in their own innate Buddha nature, their “tathagatagarbha.”
The refuge for a Christian is in a Trascendent God made Imminent in Christ.
In Buddhism, nothing is “your own”, not even Buddha-Nature.
 
In Buddhism, nothing is “your own”, not even Buddha-Nature.
This is an extreme view. Absolutism. That all is one.
The Buddhist dogma of “emptiness” holds both the individual and the collective view - interdendence:
I am individual and connected/part to all.

In your proposition the Buddha would not have us go away and ponder upon what he has said. In his attaining Enlightenment we would have all become Enlightened. There being samsara your view is contradicted.
 
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