Comparisons between Legion of Mary and The Knights of Columbus

[MariaChristi]

Dear Krisdun,

Thanks so much for asking! Our Parish has both. The “difference” perhaps is in why each was founded. From what I’ve read and learned from the Knights their emphasis is more on the Corporal Works of Mercy, although they are concerned about Spiritual works, the Knights are more involved in the material needs of people. Amount of time devoted may vary among members - some can give more than others; a pure heart is most important .

As an Active Member of the Legion of Mary for many years, I have experinced doing some Corporal Works but am far more involved in the Spiritual Works of Mercy. Weekly Meetings begin with Prayer to the Holy Spirit and the Rosary, prayer midway, ending with a prayer written by Frank Duff. Our Spiritual Director gives the final blessing. (Some Spiritual Directors are Pastors – more often they’re Deacons ).

Legion Handbook, p.6 - quotes words to Legionaries by Pope St. John Paul II:

…Yours is an eminently Marian spirituality, not only because the Legion glories in carrying Mary‘s name as its unfurled banner, but above all because it bases its method of spirituality and apostolate on the dynamic principle of union with Mary, on the truth of the intimate participation of the Virgin Mary in the plan of salvation

In other words, you intend to render your service to every person, who is the image of Christ, with the spirit and the solicitude of Mary…

…For its birth and growth, apostolic work looks to her who gave birth to Christ, conceived by the Holy Spirit. Where the Mother is, there too is the Son. When one moves away from the Mother, sooner or later he ends up keeping distant from the Son as well. It is no wonder that today, in various sectors of secularised society, we note a widespread crisis of faith in God, preceded by a drop in devotion to the Virgin Mother…

A much shorter definition of the Legion’s purpose is in the Handbook written by the Founder, Servant of God, Frank Duff in the same Handbook, p. 11:

The object of the Legion of Mary is the glory of God through the holiness of its members developed by prayer and active co-operation, under ecclesiastical guidance, in Mary’s and the Church’s work of crushing the head of the serpent and advancing the reign of Christ.

Two forms of Membership: Active - attend weekly meetings and do at least two hrs weekly Legion work pray the Maginificat of Mary dail). Auxiliary - Daily Rosary and small leaflet of Legion Prayers daily. Men and women may join Adult groups; children 8 to 18 c join a Junior Legion. Hopefully you’ll look into visitig both organizations - perhaps joining one or both. One of our Auxiliaries is also a Knight and his wife is a Columbiette.

 

[Ardent_Fire]

I believe Legion of Mary differs as it is prayer centered and knights are works driven

The Legion is not exclusively a prayer group. We do work every week in addition to the regular prayer.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Is the the KoC more of a North American organisation? Or is it that the KoC tend to be more ‘secretive’ (similar to the masons)?

The Knights of Columbus indeed started off as a US organization. I believe it may have chapters in other countries now. It was started as a fraternal organization where Catholic men, mostly immigrants to USA in the 1800s, could get life insurance. There were a lot of such organizations springing up, many were Protestant, and the founder, Venerable Michael McGivney (notice he is well along the path to sainthood so we can forget all that claptrap about the name of the organization), wanted to start an organization that would accept Catholics and that Catholics could join with a clear conscience. The organization grew from there.

 

[Krisdun]

Thank you for explaining this to me. It really helped! I am going to read more about the two organisations, possibly attend meetings if possible, and then I can decide which may suit me better.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I personally find the posts about the name of the Knights of Columbus to be disrespectful as well as off topic for the thread. I have flagged accordingly.

Regarding the name of the organization, at the time the organization was founded in the 1800s, Christopher Columbus was a revered figure in the USA among the Protestants who were already established in the country. He was also an Italian “immigrant” of sorts. The organization was founded for Catholic immigrants to the USA, many of whom were Italian, and many of whom were discriminated against for being Catholic and immigrant. Therefore the organization named itself after an “immigrant” who, unlike themselves, was held in high esteem by the Protestants, in order to make a point. Obviously the name has become entrenched through branding over more than a century and it would not be an easy matter to change it at this point. Imposing your late-20th-century social conception of history onto the 1800s founders of the organization, which does nothing wrong and does not go around holding up Columbus as a saint (Indeed I have seen more reverence towards Columbus from business people and secular civic groups who erected statues of him in many places in the past), is not appropriate and shows disrespect for and bias against Catholics on this forum.

 

[MariaChristi]

Dear Krisdun,

Thanks for letting me know my post helped. I tried not to make it too long You may also be helped by reading more from the Official Handbook of the Legion of Mary - click on the link I gave in my post. . It has several quotes from Popes but I chose St. JPII because his words are so appropriate today, but another quote I like very much is:

“The Legion of Mary presents the true face of the Catholic Church.” - Pope St. John XXIII ( p.11)

And one last link: The Official Website of Mary’s Legion is: https://www.legionofmary.ie

May the Lord guide you on your path to holiness through Mary!

 

[commenter]

How are Grand Knights selected? Do they need to be authorised by a local Bishop or Priest?

The Grand Knight, top leader of the Council, is elected by the members. The priest chaplain is nominated by the GK and approved by the bishop.

The K of C is mainly active in the US, Canada, Mexico, Philippines, and now Poland. Individuals live in other countries as well.

When I was a young man, I tended towards intense spiritual movements, didn’t consider the K of C. But then I noticed the renewal movements were mostly attracting the same kinds of people, over and over. The prayer group was two thirds Cursillistas, the Cursillo group was two thirds Mission people, the Mission group was two thirds…

The great majority of Catholics were unaffected. I later joined the K of C because of its prolife position. But I find it touches many “average” Catholics unreached by other means.

It doesn’t so much attract renewed people, it renews them a little.

 

[Katie777]

The knights were formed by Father Mcgivney for widows and destitue.

 

[dochawk]

It was started as a fraternal organization where Catholic men, mostly immigrants to USA in the 1800s, could get life insurance.

At the time, Catholics had the most dangerous jobs and a large number of widows and orphans.

It took a few yeas to get the insurance going. In the original group, before that, it was expected that each member would contribute $5 whenever anther member died, for the relief of the widow and orphans. Taking care of them is still a major part of our existence, and is the reason for our insurance program.

prior to starting the KofC, Fr. McGivney was involved with the Ancient Order of Hibernians in America. The AOH itself was formed in Ireland to hide priests from the British army, who was executing them.

The Irish were the only group where the women preceded the men to America (as opposed to the men going, and sending money back to send the women), and the AOH asked the Irish in the US to form the AOH in America to protect the women (among the top of the list was from marrying protestants!).

Irish, particularly Catholic Irish, were the bottom of the social ladder–below even slaves in many ways, and were used for dangerous labor that one wouldn’t want to risk a valuable slave, such as draining swamps.

Anyway, Fr. McGivney wanted something like the AOH for all Catholics, and thus the KofC.

 

[7_Sorrows]

@MariaChristi

Hi Maria. I am an auxilliary member and have been for many years. I was an
auxilliary member when I was wanting to sit in and observe.
The woman who told me I could no longer attend had just taken over as the leader or president so maybe she was just unsure. I was really broke at the time
and drove a car that did not get good gas mileage and we met at a location quite
far from where I lived - about 15-20 miles so I couldn’t make a commitment to join
yet, but I had read the handbook and was interested in seeing what the meetings were like and what they did. It did hurt my feelings, but I let it go.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Oops, I thought Uriel1 was the OP.

 

[MariaChristi]

Dear sister in Jesus through Mary, 7 Sorrows,

Thanks so much for your reply! What a joy to know you are an Auxiliary Member of Mary’s
Legion. I thank God for the grace He gave you to “let it go” as you said of the “hurt feelings”. Mary our Mother wants all of us to do as she did in listening to Jesus from His Cross say: “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do”. Being a new President, she may have been unsure of what to do.

Certainly you’ve been blessed by your commitment to Jesus through Mary. You have been and continue to be a blessing to all the millions of Legionaries all over the world by your faithfulness to praying the Rosary and the Legion prayers daily. The Rosary is such a powerful prayer – for it includes all of us sinners, all over the world. No wonder Mary asked the children at Fatima and all of us to pray the Rosary daily.

All of us need to mean the words we say in praying the prayer Jesus taught us, “Our Father…forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us”. Please let us continue to pray for one another, for the Church and for all those in most need of God’s Mercy, through Mary. Totus Tuus!

PS Not sure if you have been watching the miniseries on EWTN on St. Louis de Montfort’s “True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin”. Fr. Fred Miller will give his fourth and final presentation tonight May 7, at 5:30 PM. Perhaps you’ve already read the book as I have more than once, but each time I read it, I learn more. If you’ve never read the book The link will take you to the online version. A few years ago, our Praesidium read the book for our weekly Spiritual Reading and those who had never Consecrated themselves to Jesus through Mary did so. Praying and seeking to live St. Louis de Montfort’s Total Consecration to Jesus through Mary has been a great Grace in my life. Thanks again, dear sister, for your sweet reply to me!

 

[AlbMagno]

I remember some quotes about Columbus talking in favour of slavery. I would argue that the ones who brought the True Faith were the religious founding missions, mainly the Jesuits, Dominicans and Franciscans.

 

[commenter]

I remember some quotes about Columbus talking in favour of slavery. I would argue that the ones who brought the True Faith were the religious founding missions, mainly the Jesuits, Dominicans and Franciscans.

Columbus absorbed some of the blind spots and assumptions of his era. In the future, Catholics will look back on us and wonder…

The religious played an indispensable role, but a layman with a dream, intelligence, and daring gave them a ride, found new places where they could minister.

 

[Krisdun]

I have heard that Columbus is regarded as a saint in some Christian churches but not sure whether there is any truth to this? In an indirect way he did open up the Americas to the RCC but the manner in which he did this will be the focus of much debate.

 

[commenter]

Before Columbus, no Bible or Mass in New World. After Columbus, Bible and Mass continuously present.

Before Columbus, slavery was present, but no known anti slavery movement on this hemisphere. After Columbus slavery became controversial, eventually banned as a result of the ideology he brought over.

Before Columbus, human sacrifice in some regions. After, it was ended.

Before Columbus occasional wars and exploitation. After Columbus, wars and exploitation. But also he carried the ideology that wars and exploitation are wrong.this was new.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I have heard that Columbus is regarded as a saint in some Christian churches but not sure whether there is any truth to this?

He’s not a saint in the Catholic Church, nor has he been considered for that honor in recent times, nor will he be considered for it. I think there was a petition for his sainthood back at the time of the First Vatican Council, which was in the mid-1800s. At the time Columbus was generally well-regarded. The petition didn’t go anywhere.

Under current standards he doesn’t meet the criteria for being a saint. He didn’t live a life of heroic virtue. Nor was he a martyr.

Most “other Christian churches” do not have saints. The major exception would be the Anglicans / Episcopalians. I don’t know what their stance is on Columbus.

 

[AlbMagno]

It wasn’t solely because of him, that’s like saying Judas was responsible for our salvation.

Here we aaaaalways talk about not romanticizing non-canonized men, but this is exactly what you do.

 

[commenter]

It wasn’t solely because of him, that’s like saying Judas was responsible for our salvation.

In the past, the tendency was to prejudice to Native Americans.

In recent decades the Left, as well as religious liberals and secularists, have demonized Columbus the man, because of the whole exchange or process he precipitated. Like Rousseau they idealized the state of pre Columbian America, natural people living in harmony with spirituality, nature, and each other. Then the White man came with his guns, crucifixes, dogmas, like the snake entering the garden.

This analysis, which is the dominant one now in education and media, is why they are pulling down statues of Columbus. The percentage of current Native Americans who are Christian is almost certainly higher than the percentage of professors promoting this idea.

Columbus wasn’t perfect but the current demonizing of the man needs to be refuted. The most dangerous prejudice is always the current one.

The attack on “Columbus” is a subtle attack on Christianity.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I have the book, but have not read it. I did not know about the EWTN presentation.