Comparisons of the "AFTERLIFE"

[Pophead]

Ladies and Gentleman,

I have been searching everywhere for a **detailed comparison **of the Afterlife. I am primarily interested in detailed comparisons between the following:

Ancient Egyptian / simply Egyptian / both
Ancient Greek / simply Greek / both
Ancient Jewish / simply Jewish / both
Ancient Christian / simply Christian / both
(obviously I am interested in the divisions as well - incorporating religions and cults: Roman Catholic, Mormon, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Brethren.)

There are a few others that intrigue me as well:

Native American Indian - just a few tribes if possible (but very detailed.)
Maori
Aborigini
African Tribes

I think that about does it. My main interest in the comparison is regarding the destinations, not the religious qualifications for the specific destinations, but if that is included I don’t mind. It is just that I am really focussing on the details. I have been to my library, my second hand shops and surfed the olde net and have found bits and pieces, but no really comprehensive study.

Love,
Pophead.


ps. I am hoping and praying that ye University or Seminary students who have done full courses in Comparitive religion will be able to hook me up the information or at least give me some authors and names of books, which I can run by my library. Obviously, if you are just someone like myself who is interested in the mysterious and fantastical, come along for the ride and let’s see if we can get enough wind in the sails to fly this boat to the sun.

If you are going to just put up your own studies so far, or segments thereof, please grant me the priviledge of knowing the sourses. The internet is full of good stuff, but tons of it is unqualified and hearsay, upon hearsay, upon hearsay…

 

[Pophead]

Wow, I never expected this one to drop so suddenly. Well, as my little boat is sinking like a stone, I hope that someone has an interest in this an not me alone.

Peace,
Pophead.

 

[PaulDupre]

Just one comment, Pophead: We Catholic Christians don’t like to be lumped with Mormons and JWs - both of which are non-Christian religions. That’s certain to have a chilling effect on any thread.

You weren’t really calling us a cult, were you?

God love you,
Paul

 

[QuietTimes]

Thank you Paul you read my mind…
We are not a cult.

 

[Pophead]

Just one comment, Pophead: We Catholic Christians don’t like to be lumped with Mormons and JWs - both of which are non-Christian religions. That’s certain to have a chilling effect on any thread.

You weren’t really calling us a cult, were you?

God love you,
Paul

(from my opening post)
Ancient Christian / simply Christian / both
(obviously I am interested in the divisions as well - incorporating religions and cults: Roman Catholic, Mormon, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Brethren.)

Hold on a minute both of you.

I really struggled to create useful divisions here.

Firstly, I agree The Roman Catholic Church is a Christian Religion. It is too big to be called simply a denomination, ***and though some regard it as a cult, I do not. *** - it is Ancient Christian.

Mormon / The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints - it now too big to be called a Christian cult - It is a Christian Religion - false or true is a matter of debate, that has not yet been resolved, for there are ongoing discussions. I am of the view that there is trememdous freshness of insight that is emerging from LDS apologists and scholars. - for now I am willing to let them be in the category Christian. (I am open to thoughts as to why they should not be included. Especially from Mormons)

Obviously, the Jehovah’s Witnesses are a Christian cult. Over the years they have been changing dramatically. I know that they have many beliefs that would put them outside of that division, but then one needs to consider if false beliefs were the issue, then nearly every single denomination and religion in Christendom might be consider a false christian religion or cult. Hard thought. - Christian cult.

Brethren - I enjoyed this particular one because it is so extreme in it’s ideas, and was a pioneer work. - Christian (not that ancient)…‘In 1948 the Church of the Brethren joined the World Council of Churches as a charter member and was a forming member of the National Council of Churches in 1950.’

Of course, I am not just interested in a comparison between these four Christian - religions Ancient and Modern and cults. It is just that if I were to have every denomination, it would be a bloated comparison. **I personally know that there are genuine children of God in all these four, and so we need to find ways to explore our unity not express our division. **
I am interested in specifics relating to the AFTERLIFE…I already have a pretty good understanding of Roman Catholic beliefs, though I would be interested in reading a 100% uptodate presentation of this.

As to the LDS or Mormons, well that I have learned bit for bit and have a pretty good idea. They believe in and AFTERLIFE.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses are a difficult Christian cult and they have some ideas that are unique to their Organisations teachings. But they are in flux, continually changing with the times and the students. (I might have included the Christadelphians and the Bible Students here, but I did not want to bloat the comparison) - and the Seventh Day Adventists…I know these as well as the New Apostolic and Old…and many, many denominations both false and other within the category Ancient Christian / Christian / both.

My prime interest is really in the

Ancient Egyptian / simply Egyptian / both
Ancient Greek / simply Greek / both
Ancient Jewish / simply Jewish / both

There are a few others that intrigue me as well:

Native American Indian - just a few tribes if possible (but very detailed.)
Maori
Aborigini
African Tribes

I realize I should have been more specific in my divisions. I am sorry if I offended you, it was never my intention.

Ancient Christian - Roman Catholic
Christian - Brethren, The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints
Christian Cult - The Jehovah’s Witnesses

So let’s see what you have ?

 

[cheddarsox]

What do you mean by

Ancient Egyptian/simply Egyptian ?

what is "simply Egyptian?

First, while you are doing your searching, the time period we call Ancient Egypt spans more than two thousand years. A lot of development took place in their religion over the time period. It wouldn’t be possible to come up with a single cohesive ideology of their understanding of afterlife.

And if you are referring to modern Egypt, there are muslims, jews and Christians there now.

If you want more info on Ancient Egyptian beliefs, you might want to explore Kemetic Orthodox faith, it is a recon religion based on the old Egyptian beliefs and they do do their history.

 

[Pophead]

Hi Cheddarsox,

I am really grateful for you (name removed by moderator)ut.

First, while you are doing your searching, the time period we call Ancient Egypt spans more than two thousand years. A lot of development took place in their religion over the time period. It wouldn’t be possible to come up with a single cohesive ideology of their understanding of afterlife.

Yes, I am aware of this. Hence I am looking for the earliest deciphered information 1500 BC (approx.) and then a detailed study of it’s evolution.

And if you are referring to modern Egypt, there are muslims, jews and Christians there now.

No, simply Egyptian. I mean other than Ancient…what it evolved into. I have seperate categories for Ancient Jewish and Ancient Christian already. I mean before the beliefs fragmented.

If you want more info on Ancient Egyptian beliefs, you might want to explore Kemetic Orthodox faith, it is a recon religion based on the old Egyptian beliefs and they do do their history.

This is simply marvellous! Exactly the sort of thing I am looking for. I shall check the library as well…time to read a bit.

Pophead.
:coffeeread: Kemetic Orthodoxy

 

[KarenNC]

For Ancient Greek, your best bet is probably “Greek Religion” by Walter Burkert. It is, to the best of my knowledge, still considered the scholarly standard on the topic. It is still in print.

 

[puzzleannie]

can’t respond to OP because I can’t figure out what is being asked, what is the difference between ancient and simply. If you are a serious researcher on a topic why not begin with google and old fashioned library searches of your topics. If you want to include the Catholic point of view, go back to the CA homepage and do a library search for relevant articles. For other religions and cultures, go to their sites (although I don’t know if the ancients have blogs).

 

[Stephen_C]

Hey Pophead…are we (CAF members) doing your research for homework?

Edit: well I guess not since you are almost as old as me

 

[Pophead]

For Ancient Greek, your best bet is probably “Greek Religion” by Walter Burkert. It is, to the best of my knowledge, still considered the scholarly standard on the topic. It is still in print.

This is a great lead, thank you so much Karen.

Does he cover the subject of the Afterlife ? - I am hoping to get at least a chapter to read on this.

Grateful,
Pophead.

 

[Pophead]

I can’t figure out what is being asked, what is the difference between ancient and simply.

Ancient - roots
simply - it’s evolution and just before they started to fragment

If you are a serious researcher on a topic why not begin with google and old fashioned library searches of your topics.

That is precisely where I am, and I was hoping to share the experience with those who are interested in what the Ancient civilization believed about the afterlife. No harm.

If you want to include the Catholic point of view, go back to the CA homepage and do a library search for relevant articles.

As I said, I don’t have much problem accessing the information for the Ancient Christian views on the after-life. I am sure than that most Seniors on CAF could rap the entire mission from day one down until now, without so much as taking a breath. Apostle’s Doctrine to what is now held as the teaching of Rome about the afterlife. I am currently using the system you speak of and am getting along nicely, it is just sometime better to share the journey.

For other religions and cultures, go to their sites (although I don’t know if the ancients have blogs).

Hahahahaha…maybe ancient blocks… I have been doing this, but find that I need some really authoritive stuff. One site clashes with another, it is a madhouse out there. Especially when it comes to the Ancient stuff. I have a great one for the Egyptian beliefs on the Afterlife…big step there…

Now for Greek…and then the hardest one…for those Rabbi’s all had very different ideas, so I have to go really far back to the first one’s.

Then to the more exotic types…Native America Indian is going to be a blast.

Pophead.

 

[Pophead]

:coffeeread:

Hey Pophead…are we (CAF members) doing your research for homework?

Edit: well I guess not since you are almost as old as me

I have just finished and very long exploration of the entire New Testament and Old Testament. (I am a really slow reader). Most folks think that all you need to do is enter a word in the database and you have the whole story…but to explore the Scriptures properly, one has to go through it thoroughly, if one ever hopes to understand a particular topic. I used to just thumb up a group of passages in the Concordance and think, ‘well that is good enough’. It wasn’t until I started writing that I realised there is nothing worse than lying to you readers. (If you say you have read a book, better make sure you did and that you have fully grasped the topic you are attempting to explain.)

I guess this current exploration is a little lazy of me, but I know that there are specialists in these fields and I only want to glean from the best work and present a summary in the form of an introduction. I just don’t want to write a lot of rubbish, and so much stuff on the net and on forums is just that. So I am hoping to link up with the real researchers and then milk their minds for what is the best resourse, or book, etc. I intend to do the hard work of reading and summarizing. So I had to be fairly picky, in the end I think I will pick out the most fascinating one’s to me personally and shorten my work load. It is just so exciting and I was searching the net all alone and getting no where.

Now imagine for example if I bump into someone who is a total expert on Ancient Maori beliefs regarding the afterlife…normally I get a one liner…it is not enough, when you get four one liners and they all have a little bit of this and that. I had that experience with the Greek beliefs…fragments. It sort of made me think of how our own beliefs have been hemmed together into what we have today.

I am interested in the original ideas, even if they are not much to hold onto, at least that they are interesting enough and possibly authentic…it is just such a long process doing this alone.

So I hope that no one objects to me milking the CAF for what it’s worth.



:coffeeread:
“Greek Religion” by Walter Burkert < now all I have to do is to find out what this guy had to say they believed about the afterlife.

 

[Pophead]

Thanks for the help and inspiration. Since all your (name removed by moderator)ut I discovered a genuine expert in this field of research.

Professor and Chair of the Department of Religion at Rutgers University of Pennsylvania. I hope to secure two books that he wrote on the topic.

1. Death & The Afterlife: Perspectives of World Religion
2. Death & Eternal Life: Christian Ideas in Historical Perspective

These two along with the information from the Kemetic Orthodoxy site (Ancient Egyptian) and Greek Religion by Walter Burket should be enough to provide me with some really fine documentation.

Obviously, this thread is not closed for there is still the matter of ‘Ancient Jewish’ ideas concerning the afterlife, and how they have evolved to the point of disentergration or framentation.

I also am still searching for some accurate data relating to Native American Indian - just a few tribes if possible (but very detailed.)
Maori
Aborigini
African Tribes

A complete compartive study of Ancient religions in this regard does not seem to be freely available in a reliable form on the Internet.

Thanks, once again and good night to yer all.

I have some serious English to Afrikaans translation to do tonight.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Hi Cheddarsox,

I am really grateful for you (name removed by moderator)ut.

Yes, I am aware of this. Hence I am looking for the earliest deciphered information 1500 BC (approx.) and then a detailed study of it’s evolution.

No, simply Egyptian. I mean other than Ancient…what it evolved into. I have seperate categories for Ancient Jewish and Ancient Christian already. I mean before the beliefs fragmented.

This is simply marvellous! Exactly the sort of thing I am looking for. I shall check the library as well…time to read a bit.

Pophead.
:coffeeread: Kemetic Orthodoxy

There are translations of both the Pyramid Texts & the (slightly later) Coffin texts, both of which go back a thousand years before 1500 BC.​

For English translations of the “Book of the Dead” - AKA “the Papyrus of Ani” - the translation by Raymond O. Faulkner is preferable to that by E.A.W. Budge, though Budge’s is on the WWW.

The essays in James Allen’s “A Grammar of Middle Egyptian” are well worth reading.

The three volumes of translations of Egyptian texts by Miriam Lichtheim are probably as good a place to start as any - she includes several of the Pyramid Texts & Coffin Texts, as well as hymns & tales; all of which should be of help (as well as other texts, of course).

See also - A.K. Bowman, “Egypt after the Pharaohs”.

 

[Pophead]

There are translations of both the Pyramid Texts & the (slightly later) Coffin texts, both of which go back a thousand years before 1500 BC.​

Yes, I gathered as much.

For English translations of the “Book of the Dead” - AKA “the Papyrus of Ani” - the translation by Raymond O. Faulkner is preferable to that by E.A.W. Budge, though Budge’s is on the WWW.

Thanks, I have just printed out this information and am going to enjoy checking out both sourses. Great!

The essays in James Allen’s “A Grammar of Middle Egyptian” are well worth reading.

Okay.

The three volumes of translations of Egyptian texts by Miriam Lichtheim are probably as good a place to start as any - she includes several of the Pyramid Texts & Coffin Texts, as well as hymns & tales; all of which should be of help (as well as other texts, of course).

Yes, the ‘Egyptian Book of the Dead’ was so very important to them as it contained all the things they needed to do in order to even have and afterlife. The physical aspects of this were just as important but the book of the dead was essential to get through the difficulties that were presented in the afterlife. (right ?)

See also - A.K. Bowman, “Egypt after the Pharaohs”.

Oh, this is interesting. Thanks so much for the effort, Gottle of Geer.

:harp: