Complex family/girlfriend issue - need help

[whatevergirl]

The “demanding girlfriend” is now entering into the picture to defend herself since apparently she is the only one who is going to do it. Plus, I don’t think it’s fair for my side of the story to not be represented.

I have clearly stated to my boyfriend that I did not think the appropriate or even Christian thing to do was to completely cut his father off. It’s unfortunate that seems to be the message that has been put out there. I have simply said that I don’t think it is appropriate to act completely buddy buddy with him, and let him be the Disney World Dad he so desires to be.

And my boyfriend told me several months ago that he agreed with my position. The reason I brought it up so many months ago was so that I could see if we were on the same page before things progressed between us. I knew it was an issue I felt strongly about, so I tried to handle it in the best way a 23 year old can.

I think that saying I am placing unfair demands on my boyfriend, is very unjust. He told me that he agreed with the way I said I thought it should be handled. I think I should be able to have my thoughts and feelings about situations like these. Especially when it is something that is going to be a part of my every day life if I choose to marry this man.

The mother of my boyfriend has advised my boyfriend to never leave his children alone with his father, in the fears that they may be sexually abused. Does that say anything about the father having changed his life? Am I supposed to want to be intimately involved with someone who is a potential sexual abuser? I would think that anybody in their right mind wouldn’t walk into a situation knowing that, let alone bringing children into the picture.

I would appreciate it if you all would say some prayers for us.

*For what it’s worth, I could see where you were coming from, and I stand by my advice to gumby, your bf. I think that his family’s dynamic will most certainly affect your life, which is why I said what I said. Keep in mind, sometimes, we don’t receive the other side of the stories we read, so people are just giving advice based on what they read.

Again, hoping things work out, somehow. God bless! *

 

[Lynn123]

*For what it’s worth, I could see where you were coming from, and I stand by my advice to gumby, your bf. I think that his family’s dynamic will most certainly affect your life, which is why I said what I said. Keep in mind, sometimes, we don’t receive the other side of the stories we read, so people are just giving advice based on what they read.

Again, hoping things work out, somehow. God bless! *

I really, really appreciate your support. I have been reading over your replies, and I am glad that at least one person can see my position and my side.

 

[Lynn123]

I think your girlfriend needs to let you handle your dad the way you see fit. I think she sounds rather demanding, and a bit on the controlling side in all honesty. She is basically saying she’s not sure she can be in a relationship with you if you don’t handle your family relations the way she wants you to. Will this be the case as other conflicts arise? Your father is your father and you’ve already made your feelings clear in the past. She needs to let you be a man and make your own decisions on how to handle your family. It is not her place to insist you cut off relations.

I agree with others that there is a red flag with her behavior, and would seriously look to see if this a pattern your girl friend has on how she handles conflict.

Actually, I was not saying that I’m not sure I can be in this relationship unless it is handled as I see fit.

I have talked to gumby on SO many occasions about this situation. I told him how I felt about it months ago.

And he has told me time and time again that we are on the same page. He told me he was going to do something about it, and failed to do so.

He could have told me way back when that he didn’t agree with me, but the point is, he didn’t. And even if he had, I wouldn’t have been so demanding as to put a threat on him that I was going to break up with him if he didn’t change his stance.

I have been nothing but supportive to him throughout all of this. I have spent countless hours of my life talking to him about it. I have showed him that I understand his situation and that I feel bad that he is in it. We have talked about it from all different angles and perspectives.

The reason I have put my foot down in the last few days, is because he told me he was going to handle it, and instead did absolutely nothing about it.

 

[Thomas63116]

The “demanding girlfriend” is now entering into the picture to defend herself since apparently she is the only one who is going to do it. Plus, I don’t think it’s fair for my side of the story to not be represented.

I have clearly stated to my boyfriend that I did not think the appropriate or even Christian thing to do was to completely cut his father off. It’s unfortunate that seems to be the message that has been put out there. I have simply said that I don’t think it is appropriate to act completely buddy buddy with him, and let him be the Disney World Dad he so desires to be.

And my boyfriend told me several months ago that he agreed with my position. The reason I brought it up so many months ago was so that I could see if we were on the same page before things progressed between us. I knew it was an issue I felt strongly about, so I tried to handle it in the best way a 23 year old can.

I think that saying I am placing unfair demands on my boyfriend, is very unjust. He told me that he agreed with the way I said I thought it should be handled. I think I should be able to have my thoughts and feelings about situations like these. Especially when it is something that is going to be a part of my every day life if I choose to marry this man.

The mother of my boyfriend has advised my boyfriend to never leave his children alone with his father, in the fears that they may be sexually abused. Does that say anything about the father having changed his life? Am I supposed to want to be intimately involved with someone who is a potential sexual abuser? I would think that anybody in their right mind wouldn’t walk into a situation knowing that, let alone bringing children into the picture.

I would appreciate it if you all would say some prayers for us.

Lynn, welcome to the forums, under what I’m sure must be very trying circumstances. I hope that my post did not come off as dismissing you or your perspective on this issue. You are absolutely entitled to your thoughts and feelings on this, especially as it relates to any possible children you and the OP may have should you decide to marry.

You are understandably upset, especially because you thought that the two of you had settled on how to move forward on this several months ago, but now things have not progressed in the way you thought the two of you agreed.

Frankly, there is very little that the rest of us as strangers on an internet forum can add to this discussion for the two of you. You need to have a long, serious, and detailed discussion between the two of you about how each of you really feels about this situation, and what each of you can (or cannot) live with. You are certainly in my prayers as you work through this.

 

[dulcissima]

Would you mind telling me (the girlfriend), what it is that you think I am being so pushy and extreme about?

How is it that you happen to now be involved in this thread where your boyfriend had been trying to get some outside perspectives?

I do find it rather alarming that a girlfriend would instruct her boyfriend to write an email to his father in which she dictates the circumstances under which he can interact not only with his father but also other members of his family. I wrote what I did based on your boyfriend’s post in which he sounds rather uncomfortable with not being able to handle things in his own way.

His father is not a convicted pedophile. His sisters have never claimed that they were molested, and as adults choose to have a relationship with their father. PLENTY of men have struggled with pornography and masturbation and that does not equate them with pedophiles, particularly pedophiles who would molest their own grandchildren. From the description of this man, I would tell you that I am very familiar with the type, having been married at one time to someone similar. I definitely would not advocate maintaining a close or frequent relationship with such a man. However, children…even adult children…have a need to have a father in their lives. My kids have been to counseling to work through their issues so that they can have a relationship with their dad on their own terms. In a divorce, parents should not make their problems with their spouse their children’s problems. His mom shouldn’t have confided so much to him, and neither his mom nor you should dictate to him the conditions upon which he may see his father, especially when it involves a gathering that includes the rest of the family. If you were married, you would have every right to set some conditions upon how he would be welcomed in your home or the contact that you had with him, but for now, it sounds like you are out of line. Re-read what he wrote. He was not comfortable with your demands and that is why he came here, for some outside perspective.

Men aren’t the only ones who can be controlling. Personally, I have to wonder about a 23 year old who has such a take charge attitude with her 30 year old boyfriend.

 

[SaltySirena]

I’m falling on Lynn’s side of the fence here. I sure would not want to have children with a man I knew was going to take them over to grandpa’s porn-den without hesitation! I am fairly certain he’s not anymore careful with where he keeps it now then he was when his own 10 year old found it.

Also, an unrepentant psychological abuser is not a person I would want around my children, either.

You don’t just marry the person, you marry the family too. And I think Lynn is completely justified in looking at this and saying, “This is not a family to whom I want to be attached for the rest of my life!”

Since it’s clear that her boyfriend does want to remain attached, well, then it might be a dealbreaker. And that does not make Lynn a controlling b****, it makes her a reasonable woman realizing that her current guy is just not a match.

 

[whatevergirl]

*Here’s my take…when you’re dating, you have to decide…can I tolerate ‘xyz’ whatever that might be, in marriage. If the answer is no–it’s ok. As long as it’s not as trivial a matter as he talks with his mouth full or something. But, it’s gumby’s gf’s ‘right’ for lack of a better word, to end the relationship if she feels this is too much. I can see her point, from the sense that …down the road, should they marry…she will look like the bad guy, if she doesn’t want her kids sleeping over the dad’s house, and she will look like the bad guy for not wanting to hang out with gumby’s dad, bla bla…So, I find her to be mature to an extent, to want to hedge that off.

From her jumping in, she seems to be understanding. Gumby seems to be a nice guy, too. I think that if they truly love each other, and want a marriage together, they have to find a way to work this stuff out. But, if Lynn truly feels she just can’t accept this type of family dynamic, then it’s her choice to leave.

It doesn’t matter what WE might put up with, we’re not her. It’s what she sees HERSELF dealing with.

Anyways, just my two cents. *

 

[whatevergirl]

I’m falling on Lynn’s side of the fence here. I sure would not want to have children with a man I knew was going to take them over to grandpa’s porn-den without hesitation! I am fairly certain he’s not anymore careful with where he keeps it now then he was when his own 10 year old found it.

Also, an unrepentant psychological abuser is not a person I would want around my children, either.

You don’t just marry the person, you marry the family too. And I think Lynn is completely justified in looking at this and saying, “This is not a family to whom I want to be attached for the rest of my life!”

Since it’s clear that her boyfriend does want to remain attached, well, then it might be a dealbreaker. And that does not make Lynn a controlling b****, it makes her a reasonable woman realizing that her current guy is just not a match.

*I agree. How many times do women post here, complaining about their spouse, or family dynamic, and then the question will be posed to her…well, did you know this going in? :ehh:

She sees what the future might hold for her, should she marry gumby and his family…and it’s her choice to speak her mind. But, it’s gumby’s choice to say bye, or hers.

Personally, if this were me and I had this much angst over moving forward someone, I wouldn’t. Barring what the reasons were, I wouldn’t move forward if I had this much anxiety over the person’s family. That’s just me, though. *

 

[belmontmac]

Lynn and the OP I can relate somewhat. I come from a very disfunctional family, my wife does not(well sorta but different). While we were engaged she approached me with specific problems she saw down the road. My Dad and Mom divorced and he remarried outside the Church to the woman he had been having an affair and 4 children with before he was even divorced.I work for my Dad, so not to specifically point out the problems, they are all coming true as my wife predicted years ago, but I was too dumb and blind to see, and I also brushed them off as I was a loyal employee, and son, to my Dad. I believed what he told me, he was my Dad. Long story short she wished she’d listened to her gut and pushed me harder to pursue my own career. I can relate, your issues WILL be problems down the road, son’s always try to please their Fathers, just the way we are wired, acceptance I guess. Good luck, this is a life lasting decision to make, you are in my prayers.

 

[gumbygo1]

I thought I’d chime in one more time.

I never meant for this to be framed as “me vs. my girlfriend, and who strangers on the internet would side with.”

The main reason wrote the original post was to get some perspective on how to handle all the different things I was trying to balance – how to handle my father, and how to approach the whole situation in a way that is sensitive to everyone, including my girlfriend.

For the record, I don’t think my girlfriend is overly controlling. She is honestly concerned for our future marriage if/when we get there. Also, I did tell her I would address this whole issue months ago and I’ve procrastinated. She has reason to be upset. With my personality, “addressing things on my own terms” often translates to “put it off as long as possible because it’s difficult to do.”

To be fair, I share my girlfriend’s concerns about our future children being around my father. For example, what if they found pornography? (along with a host of other concerns).

I appreciate everyone’s advice and perspectives. “Lynn” and I will need to talk about things some more and work this out – And I need to work out some boundaries with my father and family vacations.

 

[Lynn123]

How is it that you happen to now be involved in this thread where your boyfriend had been trying to get some outside perspectives?

I do find it rather alarming that a girlfriend would instruct her boyfriend to write an email to his father in which she dictates the circumstances under which he can interact not only with his father but also other members of his family. I wrote what I did based on your boyfriend’s post in which he sounds rather uncomfortable with not being able to handle things in his own way.

His father is not a convicted pedophile. His sisters have never claimed that they were molested, and as adults choose to have a relationship with their father. PLENTY of men have struggled with pornography and masturbation and that does not equate them with pedophiles, particularly pedophiles who would molest their own grandchildren. From the description of this man, I would tell you that I am very familiar with the type, having been married at one time to someone similar. I definitely would not advocate maintaining a close or frequent relationship with such a man. However, children…even adult children…have a need to have a father in their lives. My kids have been to counseling to work through their issues so that they can have a relationship with their dad on their own terms. In a divorce, parents should not make their problems with their spouse their children’s problems. His mom shouldn’t have confided so much to him, and neither his mom nor you should dictate to him the conditions upon which he may see his father, especially when it involves a gathering that includes the rest of the family. If you were married, you would have every right to set some conditions upon how he would be welcomed in your home or the contact that you had with him, but for now, it sounds like you are out of line. Re-read what he wrote. He was not comfortable with your demands and that is why he came here, for some outside perspective.

Men aren’t the only ones who can be controlling. Personally, I have to wonder about a 23 year old who has such a take charge attitude with her 30 year old boyfriend.

I happen to now be involved in this thread because my boyfriend told me to read it.

I don’t think it’s out of line to want to defend myself in a thread where I am being beaten down, represented in a false light, and told that I am out of line for having my own opinions.

I DID NOT instruct my boyfriend to write the email to his father. He told me he WANTED to do it.

I find it funny how he has now disappeared out of this thread. I have told my boyfriend once and I will tell him again in front of you so you will get off my back:

“You should handle the situation as you see fit. It is not my place to dictate to you how, when, and what to do.”

And that is what I have been saying all along. You can either believe it, or not believe it. God knows the truth.

 

[flyingfish]

I don’t think its appropriate for your girlfriend to tell you to tell your father that he is a sinner and that you don’t approve of his lifestyle.

He may not be perfect, but he is still your father. You have already told him in the past that you did not agree with his choices. Spending time with him now doesn’t mean you approve of his lifestyle.

By her logic, all Catholics should tell their sinful family members that they are sinners and you don’t approve, or otherwise they get the message that you approve of their lifestyle.

That is just so immature. Telling someone “oh by the way, you’re living in grave sin and I can’t go on the paid vacations you’ve invited me to (presumably out of love for me and a desire to be close to me, your son), and to make sure you know: you’re a sinner and I abhor your lifestyle”.

I think it’s fair to say that your dad knows your position, you’ve made it clear before, you don’t have to do it again. I mean, would she want you to remind him that you think he’s a sinner every few months just so he knows you didnt change your mind? You can choose to have a relationship with your father despite his failings. (And sleeping in the same place during vacations doesn’t mean you approve of what he is doing.)

The decision of how to be in your father’s life or not should be yours, not hers. If she is afraid that your future children may be harmed by him, well that is easily resolved by never letting your future children be with him unsupervised.

 

[chevalier]

And he has told me time and time again that we are on the same page. He told me he was going to do something about it**, and failed to do so**.

Lynn, do you know how that sounds? It sounds as if you’re giving him a performance assessment. If it’s really his idea, then the process is up to him and it’s not for you to to give him a debriefing on. By contrast, if it’s your demand of him, it should be clearly named as such without being presented as his own choice. I may obviously be mistaken here, but it does sound to me like you might be confusing the two to some extent.

It is perfectly understandable that you’d be upset and perhaps disappointed in your situation, but I can’t defeat the impression from your tone that this you’re debriefing and assessing your boyfriend the way a mother or a boss does. I don’t want to tell you how to treat your boyfriend (which would make me do exactly what I were suggesting you didn’t do, which would be ridiculous), but I would suggest reviewing your attitude towards him. You must clearly understand that you are not his mother, employer or similar figure. I’m sorry if this sounds insensitive, but in my experience beating around the bush brings even more pain in the end.

 

[Lynn123]

Lynn, do you know how that sounds? It sounds as if you’re giving him a performance assessment. If it’s really his idea, then the process is up to him and it’s not for you to to give him a debriefing on. By contrast, if it’s your demand of him, it should be clearly named as such without being presented as his own choice. I may obviously be mistaken here, but it does sound to me like you might be confusing the two to some extent.

It is perfectly understandable that you’d be upset and perhaps disappointed in your situation, but I can’t defeat the impression from your tone that this you’re debriefing and assessing your boyfriend the way a mother or a boss does. I don’t want to tell you how to treat your boyfriend (which would make me do exactly what I were suggesting you didn’t do, which would be ridiculous), but I would suggest reviewing your attitude towards him. You must clearly understand that you are not his mother, employer or similar figure. I’m sorry if this sounds insensitive, but in my experience beating around the bush brings even more pain in the end.

So when someone tells you they are going to do something and then they don’t, you don’t get upset?

I’ve told him several times that in the end, it is his choice. In fact, I just got off of the phone with him, and the last thing I told him was that it was his choice. I told him I wanted him to make the decision based on what he saw to be right, not on what I saw to be right.

That is all I ever wanted him to do. Granted, I stated my opinion about the situation, but I never once told him that I was going to break up with him if he didn’t do A and B. Sometimes people don’t agree on the way things should be handled. I don’t think it’s far for me to be expected to be a carbon copy of how he feels, just as he shouldn’t have to be a carbon copy of how I feel.

 

[gumbygo1]

I’m gonna jump in here one more time.

I appreciate everyone giving their two cents. I made a bit of a misstep by sharing the URL with my girlfriend. I intended her to read the first few posts (mainly whatevergirl’s first post) to share with her what I thought was some really good advice and perspective. whatevergirl’s post really solidified my girlfriend’s concerns in my mind.

I didn’t anticipate the various opinions about my girlfriend being “too controlling.” After she read them, she felt quite upset. Had I anticipated that, I would have spared her that pain.

I would appreciate it if posters could hold their comments about my girlfriend being “too controlling”. I know the situation quite well and I can say she is not too controlling. She is sincerely concerned about how things will be handled when we are married, and concerned for future/potential children we have.

I mainly came here for advice on how best to handle the issue with my father, and how best to set boundaries with respect to family vacations. I also wanted to sanity check my own perspective to make sure I wasn’t on the wrong track. I’m more interested in how others have balanced their family life in similar situations (a family member or parent living in an invalid marriage).

 

[SaltySirena]

chevalier, women need a man they can count on. He’s showing her that she can’t count upon him to do what he says he’ll do. How is that husband material?

gumby, if someone is a threat to your family, there is no “balancing.” You, as a man, decide if you allow that threat near your family or not. And your girlfriend has the right to assess your husband-potential based on whether she thinks you’ll allow threats near your family. That fact that the threat’s name is “Dad” means nothing. I can’t see anything good from allowing your future children around him.

Tell him that when he’s willing to clean the porn out of his house and treat people decently and with respect, then you will spend time with him. The marriage issue is not really anything you can do much about…

 

[gumbygo1]

chevalier, women need a man they can count on. He’s showing her that she can’t count upon him to do what he says he’ll do. How is that husband material?

Amen to that. I failed. I told her I would address the issue, but I put it off instead. The issue rose to the surface again because my family is visiting and I spent time with them w/o addressing the issue. A real man does what he says he’ll do… so I’m trying to do that now, but the issue is quite complex.

gumby, if someone is a threat to your family, there is no “balancing.” You, as a man, decide if you allow that threat near your family or not. And your girlfriend has the right to assess your husband-potential based on whether she thinks you’ll allow threats near your family. That fact that the threat’s name is “Dad” means nothing. I can’t see anything good from allowing your future children around him.

At this point, I’m not willing to sever all connections with my dad (as it seems you are suggesting), but I do want to protect my future children from harm. I certainly have no intention of leaving them in his care.

It sounds like the best solution is to establish boundaries. Don’t sleep at his house or in the same condo on vacation, pay for my own food and activities. Make it clear that I disapprove of his invalid marriage.

 

[Thomas63116]

I mainly came here for advice on how best to handle the issue with my father, and how best to set boundaries with respect to family vacations. I also wanted to sanity check my own perspective to make sure I wasn’t on the wrong track. I’m more interested in how others have balanced their family life in similar situations (a family member or parent living in an invalid marriage).

I don’t have direct experience with a parent in an invalid marriage, so I can’t really offer any personal experience. I have a number of other relatives who are in possibly invalid marriages, but I don’t know enough of the details to really judge, and I’ve never considered it my place to do so.

From what you have posted, there seem to be two separate but related issues with your father. One is the invalid marriage, the other is the abusive and destructive behavior that underlay his failed marriage with your mother and which he has not fully resolved.

You keep mentioning the invalid marriage as if it is the biggest issue. However to me, the underlying abusive, manipulative, and destructive tendencies are the much, much more serious problem. That’s what you will need to protect yourself, your future wife (whether that turns out to be your current girlfriend or not) and your kids from. If it were just a matter of the invalid marriage, I would say that you made your feelings clear, and there is no need to continue beating a dead horse. But what I think, what your siblings think, and what your girlfriend thinks is not nearly as important as what you think. (I realize that is what you are trying to sort through).

Why is it that family vacations are such a flash point of contention and an area where you feel a particualr need for boundaries?

 

[Thomas63116]

At this point, I’m not willing to sever all connections with my dad

And it doesn’t seem like your girlfriend is asking you to do that either.

but I do want to protect my future children from harm. I certainly have no intention of leaving them in his care.

Again, the two of you seem to agree on that point, and from everything you have posted, this seems very reasonable.

It sounds like the best solution is to establish boundaries. Don’t sleep at his house or in the same condo on vacation, pay for my own food and activities.

This is the point where I, personally, get confused about why this is important to you and what it is that you are trying to accomplish. But if it makes sense to you, that’s what really matters

Make it clear that I disapprove of his invalid marriage.

From what you have posted, I think you have already done so.

 

[gumbygo1]

Why is it that family vacations are such a flash point of contention and an area where you feel a particualr need for boundaries?

At first it wasn’t much of an issue. But as my girlfriend and I talked about it, I came to realize that the nature of our family vacations and my level of participation could be sending the wrong message to my dad. For example:

-My dad rents a large condo for me, my siblings, and their spouses. My sleeping there seems to convey acceptance of my dad sleeping with his “wife”.
-My dad pays for large dinners and activities that everyone attends. My participation could be construed as acceptance of my dad’s destructive behaviors because nobody in the family talks about it and everyone just pretends everything is wonderful and perfect. Also, I refrained from participating for 5 years and now I just started participating again.

I agree with your other comment: The invalid marriage isn’t the biggest sticking point. The destructive behavior is a bigger threat to my future children. I don’t know how much of it is still going on, which seems like another reason to confront the issues.