Complex family/girlfriend issue - need help

[chevalier]

chevalier, women need a man they can count on. He’s showing her that she can’t count upon him to do what he says he’ll do. How is that husband material?

And men need a woman who will not not give them an assessment of how they live up to expectations, including in relationships with their own family members. By your logic, when a woman feels threatened she’s free to take over. Since the OP is asking to cut the topic of control and focus on the dad alone, however. if you want to carry this further, we’ll need a new, general thread. I’ll gladly offer my perspective there.

Amen to that. I failed.

Respectfully, Gumby, you’re too quick and too happy to take the blame on yourself. You need to keep your word and you need to be more decisive in dealing with your dad, but you also need to be able to assess your blame accurately and get over the fear that triggers in the face of strong reaction by a woman.

 

[whatevergirl]

*Interesting, the different opinions here. I don’t think gumby’s gf was being controlling whatsoever. She explained, and he seemed to concur, that she and he have had numerous conversations about this. Feel like we’re all reading different threads. *

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Hmm… sounds like a tough situation. The thread is kinda long and I haven’t been able to go through it and read everyone’s suggestions, but I read a couple of responses and I agree with whatevergirl’s approach. To tell you the truth I think when I was discerning marriage with my dh I might have sounded pushy or whatever too with the things I may have said, but although I was more than willing to compromise and even totally give up my preferences for different things, I was not willing to budge in any moral issues, if I was sure about the morality behind them. I wanted to marry someone who was on the same moral plane as I was, so that was a no brainer. Now, to be honest, I may not agree with the idea that you have to stop attending everything etc, but I can see how she would want a future husband that wants what is right and doesn’t want to condone any behavior that is wrong, since once children come into the picture, the fact that I know that my husband disagrees with that lifestyle does not change the fact that the kids may not. I think Thomas raised some good points asking about how his behavior has or has not changed. If he is still a threat, then maybe I would agree with having extremely limited contact with him, especially once there are kids in the picture. If he doesn’t seem like a threat, then I would come up with some boundaries and discuss them with your gf. You aren’t discussing them with her because you have to do what she says, you are discussing them with her because you mentioned engagement was something you guys were contemplating and like it or not it is something that will affect her. DH and I felt like we might have marriage in the future when we were dating but I made it clear that I needed to meet his family first, and I wanted him to meet mine too. I think its important to find out any potential problems before getting married if possible and discuss them. I personally don’t agree with the idea about the email and am glad you didn’t send it. If you do feel like your participating in the activities seems like a silent condonation after the years of silence, I would approach him and mention something, but in a loving way and not anything in writing etc. Let him know you love him and want what is best for him, something along those lines. You shouldn’t do things to appease her either. Its good for her to see what type of decisions you would make, and for you to see what type of decisions she would make. Now is the time to see if you guys are compatible and agree on things in the moral arena, you owe it to each other to be honest and discuss what you each think is the best approach, and see if you could live with each others way of addressing issues, because once you are married, that’s it , no backing out .

 

[rayne89]

So when someone tells you they are going to do something and then they don’t, you don’t get upset?

Lynn I realize you are on the defensive now. Remember we could only go by your boyfriend’s information that he gave us until you joined this thread.

I’ve been with my hubby a long time, we’ve been married 18 years and have known each other 20 so my experience I think is seeing things that may not be so obvious to you. Your boyfriend agrees with you “in theory”, in theory he knows he may come across as condoning his dad’s behavior but in reality he simply would like to keep the peace.

He agrees you are right but is not comfortable going down the road of confrontation again -he prefers family peace but he doesn’t want to disappoint you or make you unhappy. He wants you to look at him as a moral and upright guy. He says he should, and even that he’s going to but inside of himself he really doesn’t want the conflict with the family anymore. And the part of keeping the peace instead being the “bad guy” in the family is winning. I don’t think that makes him a bad boyfriend, families are complex and you can’t make someone choose a moral path - it doesn’t look like his dad has any intention of changing his ways.

Now, since you are not married and don’t have children, this doesn’t affect you directly anyway. His father has never been accused of molestation by the sisters and they seemed to have made peace with him. If every child stopped talking to their father because their father looked at pornography there’d be a lot of fathers and children not talking. I’m not condoning pornography, I loathe it but I’m just pointing out a reality. If you do marry and have children and then fear they may be exposed to porn or experience abusive certainly supervised visits are completely reasonable.

It sounds like you are trying to help him make a choice that he implies or out right says he wants to make but in reality he just wants to keep family peace but also not look like a disappointment in your eyes. He wants you to be proud of him, so he says things he’s actually not ready to do. You think your helping because that’s the signals you’re getting from him and he’s saying things to you (that he actually is not ready to follow through on) because he wants you to see him as an upright guy and not just wishy washy or lax in morals.

Does that make sense?

 

[Thomas63116]

At first it wasn’t much of an issue. But as my girlfriend and I talked about it, I came to realize that the nature of our family vacations and my level of participation could be sending the wrong message to my dad. For example:

-My dad rents a large condo for me, my siblings, and their spouses. My sleeping there seems to convey acceptance of my dad sleeping with his “wife”.

I can see this point. But it could simply convey that you want to spend time with your family, despite your disapproval for some of their choices (especially your dad’s). I guess it just depends on how confident you feel that everyone knows your position, and what purpose is served by reiterating it.

-My dad pays for large dinners and activities that everyone attends. My participation could be construed as acceptance of my dad’s destructive behaviors because nobody in the family talks about it and everyone just pretends everything is wonderful and perfect.

Personally, I find this to be much more tenously linked. How does letting him buy you dinner or pay for an outing convey acceptance of his poor choices?

Also, I refrained from participating for 5 years and now I just started participating again.

I think this probably really gets to the heart of the issue. What were the circumstances of your re-entry into these family gatherings? Did you somehow express that you now accepted your dad’s bad choices and bad behaviors? Did he express that was how he was interpreting your re-entry? Unless something was expressed to the contrary, it seems to me that the most reasonable interpretation of your re-entry is that despite your (continued) disapproval of your dad’s actions, you still want to have some type of relationship with him.

I think it will be hard to have a relationship with him if you feel the need to constantly reiterate your disapproval and separate yourself from family activities. Personally, that sounds less like a relationship and more like an on-going lecture/guilt-trip. So while you and your girlfriend both seem to agree that you do not want to cut your dad out of your life completely, I think many of the people who have responded here have drawn the conclusion that this may be the logical result.

You have mentioned that you are 30 and your girlfriend has mentioned that she is 23. If I am doing my math right, your girlfriend is now about the same age that you were when you had cut your dad out of your life completely. It seems that as we get older, we have less of a need to emphasize our positions to other people. There’s a part of you that probably still feels the way you did when you were 23. And your girlfriend is reminding you of that point of view. But there is a part of you that seems to feel differently as well, and you just have to decide how it is that you really feel.

I agree with your other comment: The invalid marriage isn’t the biggest sticking point. The destructive behavior is a bigger threat to my future children. I don’t know how much of it is still going on, which seems like another reason to confront the issues.

You don’t know whether he is emotionally abusive and manipulative? I would think those things would be fairly easy to observe in your interactions with him. Or you don’t know to what extent he has overcome the sexual issues that played a role in breaking up his marriage with your mom?

I’m guessing it’s more the latter. Frankly I don’t have the slightest idea how you would broach that topic, or expect any conversation about it to go well. I think there are things in life that really should be left between spouses, their spiritual advisor(s), and a counsellor.

You seem to know more about the issues pertaining to your parents marriage, divorce, and anullment than you probably should, in all honesty. You can’t “un-know” these things now, and you have to act prudently given what you do know (as already noted, not leaving any children you may have in your father’s care seems very wise). But I have to wonder whether it would be prudent and what you would hope to gain by inserting yourself into a conversation about issues in your dad’s life that you perhaps should not have had as much knowledge of in the first place.

 

[EmBee]

Lynn I realize you are on the defensive now. Remember we could only go by your boyfriend’s information that he gave us until you joined this thread.

I’ve been with my hubby a long time, we’ve been married 18 years and have known each other 20 so my experience I think is seeing things that may not be so obvious to you. Your boyfriend agrees with you “in theory”, in theory he knows he may come across as condoning his dad’s behavior but in reality he simply would like to keep the peace.

He agrees you are right but is not comfortable going down the road of confrontation again -he prefers family peace but he doesn’t want to disappoint you or make you unhappy. He wants you to look at him as a moral and upright guy. He says he should, and even that he’s going to but inside of himself he really doesn’t want the conflict with the family anymore. And the part of keeping the peace instead being the “bad guy” in the family is winning. I don’t think that makes him a bad boyfriend, families are complex and you can’t make someone choose a moral path - it doesn’t look like his dad has any intention of changing his ways.

Now, since you are not married and don’t have children, this doesn’t affect you directly anyway. His father has never been accused of molestation by the sisters and they seemed to have made peace with him. If every child stopped talking to their father because their father looked at pornography there’d be a lot of fathers and children not talking. I’m not condoning pornography, I loathe it but I’m just pointing out a reality. If you do marry and have children and then fear they may be exposed to porn or experience abusive certainly supervised visits are completely reasonable.

It sounds like you are trying to help him make a choice that he implies or out right says he wants to make but in reality he just wants to keep family peace but also not look like a disappointment in your eyes. He wants you to be proud of him, so he says things he’s actually not ready to do. You think your helping because that’s the signals you’re getting from him and he’s saying things to you (that he actually is not ready to follow through on) because he wants you to see him as an upright guy and not just wishy washy or lax in morals.

Does that make sense?

–

 

[PPeterson]

I think there’s a more pressing “boundary” issue in your relationship right now. Sharing your problems with your girlfriend online then accidentally having her look at the URL after someone points out she is pushy, might be considered a tad passive aggressive. On the other hand, biting on this hook line and sinker, and storming your boyfriend’s online forum to defend yourself to total strangers raises the possibility of some troubling insecurities.
You guys might want to work out how you talk to each other before tackling the Dad issue.

 

[Jesus_123]

Gumby01 . . . our **Lord Jesus **gave crystal clear instructions in Sacred :bible1: Scripture regarding person’s lives . . . steeped in sin . . . such as the one your father is leading . . . the pattern for understanding how to act in such a deeply troubling situation is quoted below . . .

:bible1:The Holy Bible
****Matthew 18

15 But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. 16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

Your father is under holy disciplines set by the Church because of **mortal sin **. . . he has deliberately and willfully entered into mortal sin and flaunted his sin before God and the Church by his behaviour . . . deliberately and willfully entered further mortal sin by entering into an adulterous relationship and trying to present it as a legitimate marriage . . . which it is not . . . Your father is living in terrible and deep darkness and his immortal soul is in terrible jeapordy . . . your condoning his adulterous living situation and accepting it certainly isn’t “lifting up God’s standard” for your father . . . for the sake of his immortal soul . . . God doesn’t accept the deliberate willful sinful state your father is living in . . . neither does the Church . . .

St. Benedict in his **Holy Rule of St. Benedict **deals with this exact situation . . . following our Lord’s pattern quoted above in the Matthew portion of Sacred Scripture . . . and clearly shows the pathway that needs to be followed by God’s children when they encounter such a deeply sinful state of a soul in touch with their lives . . .

+:compcoff:
The Holy Rule of Saint Benedict - Chapter 28
Of Those Who Having Often Been Corrected Do Not Amend

March 5 - July 5 - November 4

If a brother hath often been corrected and hath even been excommunicated for a fault and doth not amend, let a more severe correction be applied to him, namely, proceed against him with corporal punishment.

But if even then he doth not reform, or puffed up with pride, should perhaps, which God forbid, even defend his actions, then let the Abbot act like a prudent physician. After he hath applied soothing lotions, ointments of admonitions, medicaments of the Holy Scriptures, and if, as a last resource, he hath employed the **caustic of excommunication **and the blows of the lash, and seeth that even then his pains are of no avail, let him apply for that brother also what is more potent than all these measures: his own prayer and that of the brethren, that the Lord who is all-powerful may work a cure in that brother.

But if he is not healed even in this way, then finally let the Abbot dismiss him from the community, as the Apostle saith: "Put away the evil one from among you" (1 Cor 5:13); and again: "If the faithless depart, let him depart" (1 Cor 7:15);** lest one diseased sheep infect the whole flock**.

Lynn . . . we are told clearly . . .
**"Beloved, believe not every spirit,
**but try the spirits whether they are of God: ****
because many
false prophets
are gone out into the world.
I John 4:1
:bible1:

Don’t believe anyone who tells you that you shouldn’t be examining in depth . . . gumbygo1 . . . **as a person and his life and his lifestyle. . . and his relationships . . . and the people whom he associates closely with . . . **this is NOT pushy . . . if you are thinking of a future with this man . . . and looking ahead to having children in his family . . . it is absolutely necessary and good holy common sense . . . for both your soul’s and life’s protection and for your children’s souls and lives protection . . . and what you have before you is a dreadful, sick unhealthy situation within his family . . . and the stench of hell on earth . . . that can only get worse as time goes on if this father continues on the path he has chosen . . . and this son continues to associate with him . . .

It is very disturbing that your possible future husband seems far more interested in maintaining his relationship with his father . . . who is living deep in incredibly dangerous waters of mortal sin . . . rather than **protecting you **from this sinful circumstance . . . he just keeps on staying in contact with the darkness and sin that his father is living in . . . **If he isn’t taking care of you and keeping your lives separate unto God . . . you can bet your bottom dollar he will not take care of your children . . . should you have any in the future with him . . . and will not be sensitive to danger for their bodies, souls and spirits and the protection of same ** . . .

Quite frankly Lynn . . . I would not walk . . . **I would run for the nearest exit in that relationship **. . . I don’t believe for a minute this man is good marriage material in the ambivilent state he is in right now . . . and his comments in this forum are neither sound nor healthy nor Christian nor caring for you and possible children that might come from your marriage together . . . the acceptance of vice and the associating with those involved in same . . . are RED FLAGS that should send you flying to the nearest exit . . .

**. . .

AND TO THE NEAREST CHURCH
AND INTO THE LOVING ARMS OF
OUR LORD
TO PROTECT, PRESERVE
AND KEEP YOU FROM EVIL
. . .**

Habitual mortal sin . . . is incredibly dangerous . . . beyond words to describe . . . for the sinner . . . *and for anyone in consistent contact with them *. . . it’s playing with fire . . . and is not God’s Will for anyone . . . anyone who advises you otherwise is not minding either God’s or the Church’s teachings . . .

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . Precious Blood Of Jesus
. . . in all Its Ancient Power
. . . cover all who have been in contact
with this CAF thread+
​

 

[emy]

Hello:

I am new to Catholic Answers, but this thread caught my eye. It’s probably because I have been in similar situations.

I am curious: How are you working on building the relationship with your father, besides the vacations that are so troubling to your girlfriend?

Is there any other contact where there may be an opportunity to talk to him on a deeper level? Because that has worked in some of my family situations, combined with a lot of prayer and sacrifice.

It sounds like both you and your dad need a lot of prayers. I am praying for you that you can get through this, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.