Compline

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I want to start praying Compline every night but as I have issues with fatigue from my chemo treatments as well as other issues I would like to keep it to no longer than 15 minutes.

I do not want to use the Night prayer from the LoTH as I pray Morning and Evening prayer from there in community by the rules of my order. Our private prayers are not under such a rule and my being Byzantine I want to incorporate some Byzantine prayers into my day.

Compline can be very long so I was wondering if anyone knows of a Byzantine Compline that can be done in about 15 minutes.

Thanks!

 

[ciero]

Byzantine Compline is a very SHORT service. Even when done in full it takes about 15 to 20 min. You must be thinking about Great Compline, taken on the eves of Christmas and Theophany and during Lent which is a very LONG service (about 90 min).

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Byzantine Compline is a very SHORT service. Even when done in full it takes about 15 to 20 min. You must be thinking about Great Compline, taken on the eves of Christmas and Theophany and during Lent which is a very LONG service (about 90 min).

Unfortunatly I have packed away all my Byzantine (read Orthodox) prayer books. All I have is the Byzantine Prayer Book and the Melkite Publican Prayer Book. The latter does not have Compline and I do not think the former does either.

So any direction to a web resource would be appericated.

 

[ciero]

anastasis.org.uk/small_compline.htm

Hope this helps Br. David!

 

[ElizabethPH]

even the small compline looks long. But beautiful!! Perhaps leave out a psalm?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

even the small compline looks long. But beautiful!! Perhaps leave out a psalm?

I agree, that does look a bit long. When printed it is seven 8.5/11 pages.

Right now all I do is pray one of the seven penitential psalms.

 

[ciero]

Compline is the shortest of all the Byzantine offices, it takes 15 to 20 min to pray.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Compline is the shortest of all the Byzantine offices, it takes 15 to 20 min to pray.

I am looking for 15 or less.

But I will give yours a try though I think it will be more on the 20+ side of things.

 

[Aramis]

I am looking for 15 or less.

But I will give yours a try though I think it will be more on the 20+ side of things.

It really isn’t bad; once you get them memorized, due t the unchanging psalms, the psalmody goes quicker. We got daily vespers to about 20 min by antiphonal singing regularly.

 

[ciero]

It really isn’t bad; once you get them memorized, due t the unchanging psalms, the psalmody goes quicker. We got daily vespers to about 20 min by antiphonal singing regularly.

Wow a 20 min Vespers!! Never seen that. Did you do the Octoechos and Menaion?

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Dear Rev. Br. David,

May God and Our Lady of Mt Carmel envelope you in their embrace, Brother!

Here is a very doable outline for Byzantine Compline:

www.saintjonah.org/services/compline.htm

In the Byzantine tradition, as you will know, Compline is often said in the cell and can be replaced by either the reading of one Kathisma of the psalter or 400 Jesus Prayers (Great Compline - 700 Jesus Prayers with one or two Kathismata).

Compline usually includes a Canon to the Mother of God, but as the rubrics here indicate, this doesn’t have to be included. On the other hand, Compline can be lengthened with the inclusion of the daily Canons - Canon to our Lord Jesus, to the Mother of God, to the Guardian Angel and to the saint of the week with an Akathist or two. So take your pick as you like!

I find that when I’m tired, I can just relax with prayer rope in hand and recite the Prayers before an icon etc.

One may also simply say seven Our Father’s and seven Hail Mary’s to replace Compline in both East and West.

Asking for your blessing,

Alex

 

[Aramis]

Wow a 20 min Vespers!! Never seen that. Did you do the Octoechos and Menaion?

It really helps to have them on separate sheets. But yes, the standard propers, limited to 6 verses, per the minimums in the Cantor’s Companion.

If you know the verses, and by antiphony, don’t need to take breaths, and do abut 150bpm, and don’t have specific propers for the day, and are doing readers vespers (which eliminates the ektenie, replacing them with 12x Lord Have Mercy, per the Met. Cantor Institute adaptations)… When dad joins, it’s 30 min minimum… as, being a deacon, we use the deaconal form (experimental, on MCI as well) doesn’t eliminate the ektenie, and uses the longer dismissal.

At present there are at least 5 forms for vespers in English in the Ruthenian Metropolia:
Festal Great Vespers (special books for Pascha and Nativity)
Saturday Night Great Vespers (Divine Liturgies Book)
Daily Vespers, priest-led (Daily Vespers book)
Daily Vespers, Deacon-Led (adaptation of priest-led)
Daily Vespers, Reader-led (adaptation of priest-led)

They are in order of length…

 

[ciero]

Br. David have you had a chance to try praying Compline yet? Hows it working out. You are in my prayers.

 

[ciero]

It really helps to have them on separate sheets. But yes, the standard propers, limited to 6 verses, per the minimums in the Cantor’s Companion.

If you know the verses, and by antiphony, don’t need to take breaths, and do abut 150bpm, and don’t have specific propers for the day, and are doing readers vespers (which eliminates the ektenie, replacing them with 12x Lord Have Mercy, per the Met. Cantor Institute adaptations)… When dad joins, it’s 30 min minimum… as, being a deacon, we use the deaconal form (experimental, on MCI as well) doesn’t eliminate the ektenie, and uses the longer dismissal.

At present there are at least 5 forms for vespers in English in the Ruthenian Metropolia:
Festal Great Vespers (special books for Pascha and Nativity)
Saturday Night Great Vespers (Divine Liturgies Book)
Daily Vespers, priest-led (Daily Vespers book)
Daily Vespers, Deacon-Led (adaptation of priest-led)
Daily Vespers, Reader-led (adaptation of priest-led)

They are in order of length…

Where do the Ruthenians come up with this stuff;

Pascha and Nativity have Vesperal Liturgies.
Saturday Night and the Eve of Feasts have a Festal Vespers
Daily Vespers (or any other service for that matter CAN NOT be led by a deacon.

Once again the Byzantine Catholic Church in the US is making things up as they go along. Havent they heard of tradition or following the typicon?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Br. David have you had a chance to try praying Compline yet? Hows it working out. You are in my prayers.

I am going to try out the one Aramis gave me a link to.

The reason is that there is a little, a very little, variance by day which is something I am used to with the Morning and Evening Prayer I do with the order.

That Compline at bed time, scripture reading following Evening Prayer, I just need to figure out where I want to add either the Office of the Readings or spiritual reading.

 

[Aramis]

Where do the Ruthenians come up with this stuff;

Pascha and Nativity have Vesperal Liturgies.
Saturday Night and the Eve of Feasts have a Festal Vespers
Daily Vespers (or any other service for that matter CAN NOT be led by a deacon.

Once again the Byzantine Catholic Church in the US is making things up as they go along. Havent they heard of tradition or following the typicon?

The Festal Liturgy books include the much extended great vespers of the Kyivan Tradition. Same extensions as the local OCA parish for those feasts.

All the hours have readers’ services dating back to the time of coming into communion with Rome; they predate the UGCC. The Deaconal forms, which are experimentally approved by the hierarchs, are readers services but with the Ektenie and a third form of the closing prayer. They are referenced but not recorded in the 1600’s Ruthenian Recension.

Vespers, at least, has had a deaconal form for centuries… the Deacons’ Typica with Communion. I’ve seen references to it in the 1800’s in Alaska (print books for the Russian Orthodox).

So I have to ask, where do you come off claiming that deacons can not lead anything?

They do not preside, but they do lead the people in prayers, and in the Slavic traditons, have done so in mission areas since at least the 1850’s, if not before.

They are most certainly permitted to lead Reader’s forms; the deaconal forms approved are different from the reader’s form only in the blessing prayers and the ektenie. The priestly form in the Daily Vespers book has a prayer that grants the blessing. The experimental Deaconal form has one that directly asks God for God’s blessing upon the people. The Reader’s form has the leader speaking on behalf of the people, using the plural, asking God for a blessing, in a weaker voice.

The UGCC has a Deacon’s Typica approved; it is in fact Deacon-led service of the Liturgy of the Catechumens with Communion from the presanctified gifts. saintelias.com/ca/services/typica.php

orthodoxwiki.org/Vespers makes mention of the various special vesperal services for feasts… plus the VDL of St Basil mandated liturgies for Holy Thursday and Holy Saturday.

pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/services.htm has orthodox readers services

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Br. David have you had a chance to try praying Compline yet? Hows it working out. You are in my prayers.

I tried it last night, took a little over 20 minutes and was every rough for me because of the archaic language used. All those thees, thous, thys, hasts, and such.

Also the translations of the psalms, I will never get used to as they are so different from translation used in the LoTH (which I admit is not a great translation but it is what I must use). So if I try to use it again I might take the psalms from the LoTH just so I am using the same psalms.

I have also found that the Melkite Publican Prayer Book does have a prayers before bed, I forgot the exact title but I am going to give that a try tonight.

 

[Jakub]

A inexpensive Office of Compline…will be ordering myself

ignatius.com/Products/OFCO-H/default.aspx

 

[Jakub]

You also could try my short version…

Jesus Prayer

Trisagion prayers

Psalms 4-90-133 Greek # (Rule of St. Benedict)

Canticle of Simeon

 

[ciero]

The Festal Liturgy books include the much extended great vespers of the Kyivan Tradition. Same extensions as the local OCA parish for those feasts.

All the hours have readers’ services dating back to the time of coming into communion with Rome; they predate the UGCC. The Deaconal forms, which are experimentally approved by the hierarchs, are readers services but with the Ektenie and a third form of the closing prayer. They are referenced but not recorded in the 1600’s Ruthenian Recension.

Vespers, at least, has had a deaconal form for centuries… the Deacons’ Typica with Communion. I’ve seen references to it in the 1800’s in Alaska (print books for the Russian Orthodox).

So I have to ask, where do you come off claiming that deacons can not lead anything?

They do not preside, but they do lead the people in prayers, and in the Slavic traditons, have done so in mission areas since at least the 1850’s, if not before.

They are most certainly permitted to lead Reader’s forms; the deaconal forms approved are different from the reader’s form only in the blessing prayers and the ektenie. The priestly form in the Daily Vespers book has a prayer that grants the blessing. The experimental Deaconal form has one that directly asks God for God’s blessing upon the people. The Reader’s form has the leader speaking on behalf of the people, using the plural, asking God for a blessing, in a weaker voice.

The UGCC has a Deacon’s Typica approved; it is in fact Deacon-led service of the Liturgy of the Catechumens with Communion from the presanctified gifts. saintelias.com/ca/services/typica.php

orthodoxwiki.org/Vespers makes mention of the various special vesperal services for feasts… plus the VDL of St Basil mandated liturgies for Holy Thursday and Holy Saturday.

pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/services.htm has orthodox readers services

Aramis…the problem here is this…The Orthodox in Alaska and other missionary lands made exceptions for particular circumstances. As would be put in Roman Catholic parlance “Pastoral Need”. The modern Ruthenians are taking these exceptions and making them the norm. Deacons Typica for example had provisions such as the deacon was NOT allowed to vest. he was not allowed to take any of the litanies. No doxology was to be taken. The prayers he said needed to be changed from the form a priest would have used. It was always questioned how a deacon could distribute communion to folks who had not been confessed. And a parish had to be without the liturgy for 6 months before a deacons typica was permitted.

Readers services are just that readers services NOT deacon services…a deacon is not permitted to take a litany without a priest…for that matter he can not even get dressed(vest ) with out the blessing of the priest. It becomes dangerous when we step outside of tradition and start doing our own thing. We Greek Catholics must remember we are part of a larger Byzantine world. By allowing a deacon to do things only a priest should do we start blurring the lines…what belongs to who etc etc. Should we start letting a subdeacon or alter server take the deacons part if we dont have a deacon…Or maybe we should let a priest ordain when its not convenient to get a bishop in.

I think the problem is we Greek Catholics look to the Orthodox for exceptions that we then take to institute as the norm.

WE ARE PART OF A LARGER BYZANTINE WORLD THEN OUR OWN PARTICULAR CHURCHES!