Components of mortal sin--grey areas & questions

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The sixth commandment simply states “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” Adultery is defined, as far as I know, as a romantic/physical relationship with someone other than one’s spouse. Jesus then extended it to cover looking at people not one’s spouse in a lustful way.

The way I interpret this is, first of all, that if one looks at their spouse with desire, that is perfectly all right. You can’t commit adultery against your spouse with your own spouse! In fact, I think that one should desire their spouse, along with everything else that goes into a healthy marriage. If there is no desire at all, that is a problem! As for what married people do in bed together, that’s up to them. If they can’t have normal intercourse for medical reasons, then why shouldn’t they be able to be intimate in other ways short of that? At that point, openness to life becomes a moot point because it simply isn’t possible for them to have children of their own! That is one Catholic perspective I am really having a hard time understanding.

Protestants do follow moral codes, they just change a lot from person to person, and the penalties are not laid out (aside from “the wages of sin is death”). Of course, quite a few Protestants believe in “once saved always saved,” which probably helps take away emphasis from sins.
Hi Hannah! I have to gather for dinner now…but I will pop in later with a copy and paste to an elaboration of Commandment #6–Catholic style!😃 We believe the RCC to be the fullness of the faith…and in following it, we are believing that this is the work of the Holy Spirit, working through men, our Popes in passing this information down. I too have a hard time–we are human, and in our humanity, we tend to look at things through self. I had an awakening this evening…in talking with my husband…that God came up with a model for sex. When we look through the ‘self’ lense, we say…‘why would God care if I do this or that? It’s not sinful if I do this act or that act.’ Perhaps, the act in a marriage in and of itself isn’t sinful–but perhaps ignoring God’s model IS sinful. And there you have it. I couldn’t get my arms around it…or my head around it…but God wants our souls around it. Ah! The power of the Holy Spirit to penetrate our stubborn hearts.:o

That is why the CCC outlines this…because God has a model for everything, why not how we are to behave in our marriages, with one another? So…ignoring God’s model of sexuality is a sin. I get it. My husband and I followed NFP to the letter when we were first married…and then fell away. (Did anyone know that I was referring to my dh and me when talking about the hypothetical couple in this thread)😃 Not sure why we fell away-and we did nothing to be ashamed to write home about–but truthfully…we did not know this aspect of sexuality. We knew about being open to life, but not about completing the sex act every time within one’s wife…so, that is news. In discussing this tonight, my husband was angry at first, but I explained that I was enlightened…and that we are ‘not following God’s model of sexuality.’ And he got it. Why is it that I feel a weight has been lifted off of me???:o

And I thank everyone on here who helped lead me to that, as well! You know who you are.:o
 
Just to clarify - I can understand the Catholic perspective in which it is forbidden to have certain kinds of intercourse but not others with the intent of preventing conception. However, I cannot understand applying those same rules to a couple who cannot have children and who cannot have normal intercourse because of medical reasons.

I would like to see the elaboration of Commandment #6, though I’m still not convinced of the necessity for the extent of elaboration – though, I’m also not Catholic, so that’s probably why! 😉
 
I don’t see it as being to ‘just have an orgasm.’ I don’t think if someone cannot have intercourse, that they are selfish in desiring intimacy in another way with his/her spouse…isn’t that kind of leaping to judgement?
I know that you have posted another thread about you newfound understanding of this, but I wanted to clarify a few things. When I said the “just to have an orgasm” I was not referring to you specifically. I was trying to point out that the orgasm is a pleasureable part of the marital embrace given to us by God, but it is not, nor should it ever be the primary focus of the act. It is one of the many welcomed pleasures of the act, but again, it is not the “main reason” of this act. Maybe I did not clarify that well enough.

I have to disagree with your last statement and say that if they cannot have intercourse in the way that we have discussed then they are being selfish in their intent with intimacy. If we go back to what the marital embrace is and what we as married Catholics are called to in that act we see that the unitive and procreative aspects must be present. To give ourselves totally to our spouse. If you withhold even a part of that, you have failed to give all of yourself. You prefer that momentary act of pleasure over the totality of giving to your spouse, giving them everything that you have.

Again, this can be so closely linked to the words that were spoken by our Lord Jesus Christ at the last supper when he said, “take this…this is my body given up for you.” Christopher West does a much better job in his talk “Marriage and the Eucharist” than I ever could, but after listening to this talk, I can see how closely the martial embrace is linked to the Eucharist. Christ giving His body for His bride, His spouse, the Church just as we give our bodies to our spouses. Freely, totally, faithfully and fruitfully.

I do not mean to judge and that is not my intent as I cannot know what is in a couple’s heart when the come to their marriage bed. But I think that we have to realize and call a spade a spade and realize that there are times that we can come close to objectifying the marital embrace and see the main purpose of it as a means of pleasure and place the other pieces of this puzzle on the back burner and forget about them.

The Good News About Sex and Marriage really opened my eyes.
And I know what the Church teaches (now) on this subject…do you suppose that many know that adultery can take place within one’s own marriage? That is where this type of sin falls under…Commandment #6.

It is most interesting, and thank you for your reply, MM.
Do I, personally, think that many know that you can lust in your marriage or if you want to say commit adultery in marriage? The simple answer is no. Why? Because so many Catholics do not understand or want to know what the marital embrace is all about, they are clueless. And they are happy that way. Ignorance is bliss, right? Many think that marriage is a license to have sex, to do as you please. I sailed in that boat before and wow, I think back on that and I am disgusted when I think that I actually had that opinion and viewed it that way. I never would have thought that the marital embrace would be so confusing, yet so simplistic to understand. Such a beautiful moment that too many do not have a full understanding of. Due to the secularization (if that is a word) of sex, too many just do not “get it.” The mentality is that “what I do in my bedroom is my business.” All the while that they forget that God sees everything, God is there, right there when we participate in that act. God created sex. He knows all about it. And what a testiment it is to Him and to the vows that we took when we invite Him in as a part of that beautiful act. Simply amazing.
 
Just to clarify - I can understand the Catholic perspective in which it is forbidden to have certain kinds of intercourse but not others with the intent of preventing conception. However, I cannot understand applying those same rules to a couple who cannot have children and who cannot have normal intercourse because of medical reasons.

I would like to see the elaboration of Commandment #6, though I’m still not convinced of the necessity for the extent of elaboration – though, I’m also not Catholic, so that’s probably why! 😉
Sorry for the delay! Here is what I pulled up–the subheadings under You shall not commit adultery…it encompasses all of those ‘areas’ that fall under adultery. Now, if someone rapes another person–it is a crime, but falls under the category of adultery. It could also probably fall under thou shalt not kill, because you could be seen as killing someone’s emotional well being, by raping him/her. Divorce, in the context of remarrying someone without an annulment, would be considered adultery. So, that is how the RCC categorizes those areas, falling under Adultery.

The Sixth Commandment, “You shall not commit adultery”

Adultery—Adultery is marital infidelity. A married person who has sexual relations with anyone but their lawful spouse, even transient sexual relations, commits adultery (CCC 2380).
Divorce—The grave sin of divorce condemns those who divorce and remarry (Matthew 5:32) and those who divorce in the civil sense (except by grave dispensation). Hence divorce between two baptized Christians is a mortal sin (CCC 2384).
Fornication—Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman and is a grave sin (CCC 2353). St. Paul condemns fornication in his epistle 1 Corinthians 6:18. All aspects of intimate contact associated with the marriage act also constitute fornication for Jesus said, “I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matthew 9:28). If lustful looks are adulterous, how much worse is lustful physical contact?
Pornography—Pornography is the display of intimate real or simulated sexual acts to a third party. Because it removes the marriage act from within the sacramental sanctity of marriage, and perverts sex, it is gravely contrary to charity (CCC 2354). The display of pornography to children and other parties is especially gravely sinful because it is gravely scandalous.
Prostitution—Prostitution reduces a person to an instrument of sexual pleasure and lust. It is gravely contrary to charity and chastity and defiles the body, the temple of the Holy Spirit. However, destitution, blackmail or social pressure can reduce the gravity of the sin. Still, prostitution is always a sin (CCC 2355).
Rape—A person who commits rape violates the respect, freedom, physical and moral integrity of the victim. It is a brutal crime of violence that can physically and psychologically scar a person for life. It is thus a grave sin (CCC 2356).
Homosexual acts—Although it remains to be determined if homosexuality is a genetic, social or personal stigma, homosexual acts are condemned by God and can NEVER be approved by the Church (1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Genesis 19:1-29, Romans 1:24-27 and CCC 2357). If homosexuals are born with the condition, then they are called to live a life of Christian purity and chastity for the greater love of Christ. Such people can experience a life of trial, which all others must treat with compassion and sensitivity.
Incest—“Incest is intimate relations between relatives or in-laws within a degree that prohibits marriage between them” (CCC 2388). St. Paul condemns incest in his letter to the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 5:1,4-5).
Masturbation—“Masturbation is the deliberate stimulation of the sexual organs in order to derive sexual pleasure” (CCC 2352). The Church teaches that sex has two main purposes that must be sought in the marriage act: sex is for reproduction of children within a valid marriage, and it is a loving, unifying act between husband and wife. Masturbation violates both aspects of the natural law and is thus a grave sin.
 
I realize this is a slightly different issue than those being discussed but I think it falls under the same umbrella. What exactly does “free consent of the will” - or however it’s best phrased - mean? I can think of some things that clearly prevent a person from making free choices; narcotics, psychological episodes, being asleep, etc. Some things aren’t so clear to me.

My example that really isn’t just a “for instance” - the other day at work something bad happened and I was running (literally) around trying to deal with the problem and I said something very bad(blasphemous?) in frustration. It was one of those where you’re almost done saying it by the time you notice. I didn’t set out to do it, I got no pleasure from it or anything. I was kind of worked up, but it’s not like a hammer had fallen on my foot or anything. So… I really don’t know. Maybe I’m being lazy and just don’t want to drive out and go to confession so I want a reason not to have to. What do you fine people think?
 
Catholic Mike,

It sounds like you did not have an intent to do this. This was accidental.

We can all become spiritually lazy… and have these things happen. I know exactly what you are talking about… I have used a few “choice words” before in the exact same way you are describing.

It was not meant to be done.

I usually say an act of contrition at night… and during my “examination” of the day… I ask for guidance to help me stay away from these “accidents.”

You are in good hands. I wouldn’t get worked up over it.
 
Per St. Alophonsus Ligiori, “love God, and do what you please.”

Becoming too entangled in scrupulousity and legal-ease is the devil’s tool. Trust in your one on one mystical relationship with the Beloved, He will not let you fall into grave sin without your being quite cognizant of it before that act of will ever occurs.
 
the crying baby dilemma
It is wartime. You and your family are hiding in the basement. You can hear the enemy soldiers approaching. To your horror, the baby begins to fuss and cry. If you cover her mouth, she will suffocate and die. If you do not, the soldiers will find you and you’ll all be killed. What do you do?
**
I don’t know.**
 
the crying baby dilemma
It is wartime. You and your family are hiding in the basement. You can hear the enemy soldiers approaching. To your horror, the baby begins to fuss and cry. If you cover her mouth, she will suffocate and die. If you do not, the soldiers will find you and you’ll all be killed. What do you do?
**
I don’t know.**
But the baby to my breast and nurse him or her:D
Now the baby is not crying and the family is safe;)
See another good reason to breastfeed:)
 
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