Compounding mortal sin?

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This is a split off an ongoing condom-use thread.

Once one is in a state of Mortal sin, can it be made “worse”?

I used the scenario of a rapist using a condom. Obviously, the rape victim is innocent of all sin related to the act, but is the rapist compounding his sin by using a condom?

Other scenarios would be, for example, killing a person then killing another who happened to witness the crime?

Masturbating then fornicating?

I’m sure we could go on and on with examples, but the question is, once one is in a state of Mortal sin, is that as bad as it gets? Was Hitler in a state of “greater” mortal sin than Joe Average Catholics who masturbates once (before going to confession)?
 
I remember having this dilemma back in 5th grade, when I was told that a single mortal sin ‘destroyed’ your relationship with God. I believe I asked if that meant that after you commit one mortal sin, shouldn’t you just do whatever you want until your next confession since things couldn’t get any worse. Got myself a warning note.

But of course, 5th grade religion is hardly representative of official Catholic teaching. Looking forward to any answers.
 
Catharina in the other thread (hopefully she’ll contribute to this one) did make some good points about when one is in a state of mortal sin, one can get one’s self in deeper by compounding (my word) or adding sin to sin.

But looking at the concept of a Mortal sin separating oneself from God, the question becomes can one separate oneself further from God by commiting more unrepentant Mortal sin. The answer would seem to be yes, but I’m not sure.

It depends on if there is a “degree of separation” inherent in Mortal sin, and that’s what I’m unclear about.

It seems on one hand that there is, but if we consider that one single unrepentant sin will doom us, on the other hand it seems like being pregnant…either one is in a state of Grace or a state of mortal sin.
 
I think you need to look at it in terms of going to Confession. If you do something, like that thread that you were referring to, like fornicate, that is a mortal sin. If you use a condom, that is a mortal sin. When you go to confession, if you only confess one, then you are still in a state of mortal sin. In fact, you have added another mortal sin which is not making a full confession. I don’t know that we compound one sin on top of another, there are just different mortal sins we need to confess in order to be in a state of grace.
 
Newbie2 said:
This is a split off an ongoing condom-use thread.

Once one is in a state of Mortal sin, can it be made “worse”?
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Yes. Just as there are levels of glory in Heaven there are also levels of damnation in Hell (ie: suffering, for example).
 
The “compounding” is in our attitude. The more we turn from God, the easier it is to continue to turn from him. We are never so far away that we can’t come back to Him (at least in this life) but as we grow in evil, it can become more difficult to have any desire to turn back.
 
There are defiantly levels of mortal sin. If someone commits a mortal sin they are not in God’s friendship but they can also make it worse by becoming more of an enemy with God. Therefore, there are different levels of hell. Think of our relationship with God like a relationship between a husband and wife: If the husband has an affair he probably has broken the marriage and the couple will get divorced. However, if the husband has an affair and then beats his wife, the divorce will probably become uglier and harder to fix (if there is any chance at all). It is like this with God.
 
TomD123 said:
There are defiantly levels of mortal sin. If someone commits a mortal sin they are not in God’s friendship but they can also make it worse by becoming more of an enemy with God. Therefore, there are different levels of hell. Think of our relationship with God like a relationship between a husband and wife: If the husband has an affair he probably has broken the marriage and the couple will get divorced. However, if the husband has an affair and then beats his wife, the divorce will probably become uglier and harder to fix (if there is any chance at all). It is like this with God.
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The main punishment of Hell is eternal separation from God.
Everyone in Hell suffers this punishment whether they are there because of 1 or 20 unrepented mortal sins on their soul at death so if there are additional punishments they are less than the chief punishment which everyone there will suffer.
 
I think the reason that this is hard to grasp is because our finite knowledge of God leads us to have this image of the relationship with have with Him as being on a line. When we have severed our relationship with Him with A mortal sin, WE cease to receive grace from Him, He does not cease to be injured/offended/hurt by any further sins we commit. I think there’s this tendency to see God as this old guy just watching us, and if we’ve committed a mortal sin, it’s like He’s not watching anymore. But God is watching us ALL the time, even when we’ve separated ourselves from Him.
 
Newbie2 said:
This is a split off an ongoing condom-use thread.

Once one is in a state of Mortal sin, can it be made “worse”?

I used the scenario of a rapist using a condom. Obviously, the rape victim is innocent of all sin related to the act, but is the rapist compounding his sin by using a condom?
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I think he would be compounding his sin of rape by NOT using a condom. Think about the reasons why the Church doesn’t allow condoms. Now, why would it apply to a rapist? 🤷

Senario one: rapist rapes a woman, no condom, and potentially can get her pregnant and pass along any diseases. Senario two: But according to the Catholic Church it would be a worse sin for him to use a condom, thereby limiting the woman’s exposure? No offense Newbie2, because I’m sure it’s a question many people have, but for me, it’s not even worth asking my priest about. I don’t know what the Church teaches on this one, and I’m not sure I care in this case…
 
The more frequently you sin mortally, the more difficult the healing and saving work God has to do for you to bring you back into a state of grace.

AND the harder the work you have to do in future to avoid further mortal sin, due to the fact that repeated sin has made you more habituated towards mortal sin.
 
LilyM said:
The more frequently you sin mortally, the more difficult the healing and saving work God has to do for you to bring you back into a state of grace.

AND the harder the work you have to do in future to avoid further mortal sin, due to the fact that repeated sin has made you more habituated towards mortal sin.
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This is certainly true, or at least has been in my experience…but it doesn’t really speak to the OP’s question about levels of mortal sin. Can one be in a state of mortal sin in levels - that is, can you be “a little” in a state of mortal sin? Can you be “very” or “triple very” in a state of mortal sin?

Similarily, are there levels to being in a state of grace, or is it a lightswitch type thing? Can you be marginally in a state of grace?
 
micahmike said:
This is certainly true, or at least has been in my experience…but it doesn’t really speak to the OP’s question about levels of mortal sin. Can one be in a state of mortal sin in levels - that is, can you be “a little” in a state of mortal sin? Can you be “very” or “triple very” in a state of mortal sin?

Similarily, are there levels to being in a state of grace, or is it a lightswitch type thing? Can you be marginally in a state of grace?
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NO.

You are either in a state of grace (i.e. not in a state of mortal sin) or in a state of mortal sin (whether 1, 5 or 10 mortal sins on your soul).
1 unrepented mortal sin at death sends you to Hell to suffer eternal separation from God which is the main punishment of Hell.
 
Rence said:
I think he would be compounding his sin of rape by NOT using a condom. Think about the reasons why the Church doesn’t allow condoms. Now, why would it apply to a rapist? 🤷

Senario one: rapist rapes a woman, no condom, and potentially can get her pregnant and pass along any diseases. Senario two: But according to the Catholic Church it would be a worse sin for him to use a condom, thereby limiting the woman’s exposure? No offense Newbie2, because I’m sure it’s a question many people have, but for me, it’s not even worth asking my priest about. I don’t know what the Church teaches on this one, and I’m not sure I care in this case…
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Part of me thinks the rapist probably doesn’t care about his relationship with God.

Though, I’d say that the condom use on part of the rapist is probably self serving for him, he’s not going to care if it protects the woman from any disease he carries, but it’ll protect him from leaving his DNA in her which could be used to ID him, or if he gets her prego and she aborts, that’s mroe genetic material to make an ID with.

I honestly think such thoughts are unneccessary, if one is willingly committing mortal sin, why care if they’re makign it worse by committing another mortal sin? Yeah, I beleive there are different levels of Hell, somehow I just can’t see a chronic masturbator or fornicator in the same level of Hell as Pol Pot or Hitler. (Not that we can say 100% that we know who is in Hell).
 
thistle said:
NO.

You are either in a state of grace (i.e. not in a state of mortal sin) or in a state of mortal sin (whether 1, 5 or 10 mortal sins on your soul).
1 unrepented mortal sin at death sends you to Hell to suffer eternal separation from God which is the main punishment of Hell.
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Well, to draw an analogy, if you’re dead you’re dead and you’re just as dead whether you died quickly and painlessly or slowly and painfully. Just as dead whether you had one bullet in your brain or 50 stabwounds to various parts of your body. Thus far all deaths can be said to be equal. But are they really? Is there genuinely no difference at all between the various types of death I’ve mentioned? I think there are highly significant differences for the person doing the dying!

Besides which, Hell is also a place where the damned are punished for their sins. Yes, eternal separation from God is the main punishment, but who is to say that all punishment is the same?

We know not all grace (eternal reward) is the same - that some, such as Mary, have privileges in heaven (the title of its Queen for one) that the rest of its inhabitants don’t have. And we know from scripture that we are rewarded ACCORDING to our works - in other words less works = less rewards.

So why on earth would all eternal punishment be exactly the same if all eternal rewards aren’t? On the contrary, surely justice (eternal and otherwise) demands that punishment fit the crime (in this case the sin). And thus that lesser crimes (sins) deserve and get lesser levels of punishment in the afterlife, be they mortal or not.

And you can’t tell me that all mortal sin is equal in the eyes of God - He names several sins among the mortal sins in scripture that are particularly abhorrent to Him, for example, as compared with others.
 
LilyM said:
Well, to draw an analogy, if you’re dead you’re dead and you’re just as dead whether you died quickly and painlessly or slowly and painfully. Just as dead whether you had one bullet in your brain or 50 stabwounds to various parts of your body. Thus far all deaths can be said to be equal. But are they really? Is there genuinely no difference at all between the various types of death I’ve mentioned? I think there are highly significant differences for the person doing the dying!

Besides which, Hell is also a place where the damned are punished for their sins. Yes, eternal separation from God is the main punishment, but who is to say that all punishment is the same?

We know not all grace (eternal reward) is the same - that some, such as Mary, have privileges in heaven (the title of its Queen for one) that the rest of its inhabitants don’t have. And we know from scripture that we are rewarded ACCORDING to our works - in other words less works = less rewards.

So why on earth would all eternal punishment be exactly the same if all eternal rewards aren’t? On the contrary, surely justice (eternal and otherwise) demands that punishment fit the crime (in this case the sin). And thus that lesser crimes (sins) deserve and get lesser levels of punishment in the afterlife, be they mortal or not.

And you can’t tell me that all mortal sin is equal in the eyes of God - He names several sins among the mortal sins in scripture that are particularly abhorrent to Him, for example, as compared with others.
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If you read my posts you would see I’m not saying all punishments in Hell are the same. What I am saying is that the main punishment of Hell is the same for everyone there and that is eternal separation from God. There is no greater punishment so in my opinion it is irrelevant if there are additional punishments as they are lesser than being separated from God.
Second, while I would agree that raping and murdering are far graver than, say, adultery or stealing, dying in a state of unrepented mortal sin (whatever it is) sends you to Hell. In short an adulterous thief joins the rapist and murderer in the same place - Hell - or do you disagree with that statement.
 
All actions have consequences. It’s not just about whether or not you’re in a state of grace. I think that such a black and white view is insulting to our rich Catholic moral tradition and can even be dangerous, especially for someone with an ill-formed conscience who might figure, “Well if I’m gonna sin, I might as well sin big - it’s all mortal anyway.” Every moral action has consequences on your soul and in the world.
 
thistle said:
If you read my posts you would see I’m not saying all punishments in Hell are the same. What I am saying is that the main punishment of Hell is the same for everyone there and that is eternal separation from God. There is no greater punishment so in my opinion it is irrelevant if there are additional punishments as they are lesser than being separated from God.
Second, while I would agree that raping and murdering are far graver than, say, adultery or stealing, dying in a state of unrepented mortal sin (whatever it is) sends you to Hell. In short an adulterous thief joins the rapist and murderer in the same place - Hell - or do you disagree with that statement.
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So if not all punishments in Hell are exactly the same then of necessity some are worse than others. And yes, the main punishment may be the same, as the main civil punishment of jail is the same for all prisoners, but experiences of it certainly differ hugely in severity from prisoner to prisoner, depending on the gravity of their crimes.

These differences are in themselves a reason to avoid heaping mortal sin upon mortal sin, just as having better or worse treatment in jail is reason to avoid heaping crime upon crime.
 
LilyM said:
So if not all punishments in Hell are exactly the same then of necessity some are worse than others. And yes, the main punishment may be the same, as the main civil punishment of jail is the same for all prisoners, but experiences of it certainly differ hugely in severity from prisoner to prisoner, depending on the gravity of their crimes.

These differences are in themselves a reason to avoid heaping mortal sin upon mortal sin, just as having better or worse treatment in jail is reason to avoid heaping crime upon crime.
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You still don’t get my point.

The WORST punishment that those in Hell suffer IS eternal separation from God which ALL in Hell suffer from. There is no worse punishment than that. If there are other punishments they are less than that.

Also you didn’t answer my other point. Do you agree that irrespective of the gravity of a sin ANY unrepented mortal sin at death condemns a person to Hell?
 
thistle said:
You still don’t get my point.

The WORST punishment that those in Hell suffer IS eternal separation from God which ALL in Hell suffer from. There is no worse punishment than that. If there are other punishments they are less than that.

Also you didn’t answer my other point. Do you agree that irrespective of the gravity of a sin ANY unrepented mortal sin at death condemns a person to Hell?
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Of course I get your points. And of course the worst punishment in Hell is the eternal separation from God.

But with all due respect, saying that is as useful as saying that the worst punishment prisoners suffer is the deprivation of their liberty, and that other punishments in jail are lesser. Both statements are true as far as they go, but in ignoring the existence of other punishments you are giving a very incomplete picture of Hell, as you would be of jail. The other punishments DO serve a significant purpose, otherwise no-one would bother employing them, would they?

And yes, of course all mortal sinners go to Hell. I don’t see why you’re even mentioning it, I’ve never disputed it 🤷

You, in your turn, seem to be missing MY point. Which is that, while all unrepentant mortal sinners DO go to Hell, not all will experience the same LEVEL of pain and punishment when they go there. The pains of Hell are, must be, much graver for those sinners who’ve committed much graver sins.

Do you in your turn agree with me that, since justice demands it, those with more/worse mortal sins on their soul will be punished more harshly in Hell?

And do you also agree with me that, since more or worse mortal sins mean more or worse punishment in Hell, that in itself is A reason (of course not the ONLY reason) to commit as few and the least grave mortal sins that one possibly can?

You’ve agreed with me that not all suffer alike in Hell, so I don’t see how you can NOT agree with me, or indeed really why we are arguing at all.
 
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