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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Yup, as critical as I am of the other posters, you are correct here too. Fair play should go both ways.
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Yup, as critical as I am of the other posters, you are correct here too. Fair play should go both ways.
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pensmama87
Guest
Also, per my research, (and I apologize for repeating myself) there is only one vaccine in the US that does not have an ethically produced alternative (MMR). So to not vaccinate for ANYTHING seems bizarre if that is the only reason for it, unless the pediatrician refuses to provide alternatives and there are no pediatricians around who will. It’s also still a matter of conscience in this case.
I’m going to have to dig and find the chart and associated research I gave my pediatrician to make my case on this issue (I’ll also look for the statement from the Church on the matter). It was convincing enough for him (though his office already did the not problematic ones for several, and there was another case where there was a shortage so the alternative was all that was available anyway.)
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
I don’t know of anyone who uses this as the sole justification for not vaccinating. It is a reason to maybe not take the risk with your own child of vaccinating but it is rarely the sole reason.
Most people don’t vaccinate because either they don’t believe it is worth the risk or they have religious reasons. And I support both reasons.
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Lorelei12
Guest
I actually do know a few people who think this way (unfortunately). But I agree with you that if someone really has concerns about the risks of a vaccine or religious reasons not to, that it’s that parent’s prerogative. I think that it’s unwise, personally, but do not think anyone should be forced to vaccinate their children.
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PaulGH
Guest
My post here has the links you are looking for. (Look at the end of the post.)
Also, per my research, (and I apologize for repeating myself) there is only one vaccine in the US that does not have an ethically produced alternative (MMR). So to not vaccinate for ANYTHING seems bizarre if that is the only reason for it, unless the pediatrician refuses to provide alternatives and there are no pediatricians around who will. It’s also still a matter of conscience in this case.
I’m going to have to dig and find the chart and associated research I gave my pediatrician to make my case on this issue (I’ll also look for the statement from the Church on the matter). It was convincing enough for him (though his office already did the not problematic ones for several, and there was another case where there was a shortage so the alternative was all that was available anyway.)
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pensmama87
Guest
Yes! Thank you. I had printed a couple of copies back when I first brought this up with the pediatrician, but hadn’t found them since. I must have missed your post with these links. Thanks
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fencersmother
Guest
Truth be told, LongingSoul, I said that more for hyperbole, than for a machine-gun-run-down. After re-reading my post, I do see that it probably came off as fairly offensive, and do apologize. If I do not want others to poo-poo my choices, I should not give them attitude either.
Update on my family’s personal experience: My twins, who had never had one shot, each received a nomination and appointment to a US Service Academy and part of the regimen for incoming basics is that they have a variety of innoculations, within a certain time period (Plus, they get a bunch on their first day, so sitting is extra difficult). Anyway, because each son was 18 and could make their own decisions in this regard, they were vaccinated for a whole bunch of things over the course of the spring before they left for The Academy. (They both now are pilots flying two different planes in the US Air Force!). They were sometimes required to receive a flu shot or flu mist while at The Academy, and one son got out of it because he had already had the flu!
My other kids have opted not to vaccinate as they got older, except one, who now lives and works in the Washington DC area and is exposed to all sorts of bad germs all the time (no political jokes!).
This is such a hot topic for so many parents, with lots of guilt, misinformation,too- old information, too-new information, and strong feelings.
To get us really going, now let’s discuss…circumcision.
Again, apologies for offensive statements - they’d probably never happen if I met you in real life.
Update on my family’s personal experience: My twins, who had never had one shot, each received a nomination and appointment to a US Service Academy and part of the regimen for incoming basics is that they have a variety of innoculations, within a certain time period (Plus, they get a bunch on their first day, so sitting is extra difficult). Anyway, because each son was 18 and could make their own decisions in this regard, they were vaccinated for a whole bunch of things over the course of the spring before they left for The Academy. (They both now are pilots flying two different planes in the US Air Force!). They were sometimes required to receive a flu shot or flu mist while at The Academy, and one son got out of it because he had already had the flu!
My other kids have opted not to vaccinate as they got older, except one, who now lives and works in the Washington DC area and is exposed to all sorts of bad germs all the time (no political jokes!).
This is such a hot topic for so many parents, with lots of guilt, misinformation,too- old information, too-new information, and strong feelings.
To get us really going, now let’s discuss…circumcision.
Again, apologies for offensive statements - they’d probably never happen if I met you in real life.
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Xantippe
Guest
Yes.
Also, per my research, (and I apologize for repeating myself) there is only one vaccine in the US that does not have an ethically produced alternative (MMR). So to not vaccinate for ANYTHING seems bizarre if that is the only reason for it, unless the pediatrician refuses to provide alternatives and there are no pediatricians around who will. It’s also still a matter of conscience in this case.
We researched this the first time around and we decided that the connection was remote enough that we did not have ethical concerns about the MMR, but of course other people might. (We felt that it was legitimate to use the vaccine because the abortions were not performed in order to obtain tissue for the vaccine, but because of fears that the fetuses had been damaged by rubella. The abortions were presumably going to happen no matter what.)
Speaking of which, it’s really important that women get vaccinated for rubella before pregnancy.
cdc.gov/features/rubella/
“Pregnant women who get infected with rubella virus also expose their babies. This can cause serious birth defects such as heart problems, hearing and vision loss, intellectual disability, and liver or spleen damage. Serious birth defects are more common if a woman is infected early in her pregnancy, especially in the first 12 weeks. Getting rubella infection during pregnancy can also cause a miscarriage or premature delivery.”
Chickenpox is also hazardous during pregnancy and for the newborn:
"Pregnant women who get chickenpox are at risk for serious complications. For example, 10-20% of pregnant women who get chickenpox develop pneumonia, with the chance of death as high as 40%.
"If a pregnant woman gets chickenpox while in the first or early second trimester of pregnancy, there is a small chance (0.4 – 2.0%) that the baby could be born with birth defects known as “congenital varicella syndrome.” Babies born with congenital varicella syndrome may be of low birthweight and have scarring of the skin and problems with arms, legs, brain, and eyes.
“Newborns whose mothers develop chickenpox rash from 5 days before to 2 days after delivery are at risk for chickenpox shortly after birth, with the chance of death as high as 30%.”
cdc.gov/pregnancy/infections-chickenpox.html
Ai yai yai.
I have to run off, but I leave it as an exercise to the reader to try googling the diseases covered by vaccines and “pregnancy complications.”
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fencersmother
Guest
- I was six weeks pregnant, with twins, when I had chicken pox.
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Et_Cetera
Guest
You’re upset about aborted fetal tissue being used, but not about the children who are dying as a result of diseases making a comeback? That really doesn’t add up. It seems like you want to benefit from the herd immunity without taking part yourself. It gets scary when too many people start to think like this and the herd immunity breaks down. Certain children can’t receive vaccines due to immunological issues, so they are put at risk by these types of behaviors.
It’s not courageous to put society (and the lives of your own children) at risk. You don’t have to go to NYC or LA to pick up diseases. I’ve felt cleaner in both of those cities than I have when passing through some small towns. You just never know.
I’m glad your child got over whooping cough, but you do realize that could have turned out pretty badly? Also, what if it had been spread to another child who couldn’t have fought it off so easily? I mean, it sounds like your days of parenting young children are over, so there’s not a big point in going in circles with you, but if other people are thinking this way, then I want them to see the flaws in this plan.
Your children made it out okay and seemingly didn’t harm any other children, but there is no guarantee of such an outcome when you choose not to vaccinate. Vaccines are one of the greatest medical achievements we have made. Look at how many diseases we have eradicated. To go against this grain without genuine medical reasoning is something that I don’t understand.
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E_7
Guest
As a mom to be, I am concerned about all that is vaccination and the responsibility as a parent and my baby’s health. And so I found this thread helpful. I won’t blame it on my age, but I was ignorant that there are risks if you don’t get vaccinated as well as there are risks if you do get vaccinated (this I knew). So I found this website that its purpose is to get you informed and educated on vaccines and help you make a decision. It does not try to convince to get vaccinated nor tries to convince to do otherwise. nvic.org/Vaccines-and-Diseases.aspx
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Xantippe
Guest
Eh–I don’t think that website is as even-handed as you think it is–there’s a veneer of fairness without the actual substance. I went to their “Autism” section and they somehow did not mention the words “Wakefield,” or “fraud.” Also, the talk of complete recovery from autism through biomedicals (as opposed to more mainstream therapies) is very shady and actual experts on autism caution parents from believing that autism is something that can be somehow cured. There’s no attempt on that page to suggest other explanations for the autism boom, for example: 1) greater understanding of and a broader definition of autism (it’s very recently that it started to be understood that there was such a thing as “autism lite”) 2) better special ed treatment of kids categorized as autistic rather than something else 3) assortative mating (we now live in a time when couples often match up very neatly in terms of interests). Given information technology, it’s now easier than ever before for the socially awkward to meet, fall in love (you’re just like me!!!), and marry, which raises a lot of issues genetically speaking.
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dconklin
Guest
And then you go to Confession because the Catholic Church has no such exemption. Tisk-tisk!
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
But a Catholic may have an exemption. It is a personal spirituality.And then you go to Confession because the Catholic Church has no such exemption. Tisk-tisk!
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Royalist
Guest
These exemptions are based on personal religious/spiritual/philosophical beliefs against vaccination. One is not required to belong to a religion that formally opposes it.And then you go to Confession because the Catholic Church has no such exemption. Tisk-tisk!
Arguably, it is dishonest to claim a religious exception if one’s true opposition to vaccination is 100% health based.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
It would be an eternal grey area. One could argue that it is 100 percent health based and therefore a spiritual decision to protect their child…etc.
Eventually some atheist group will make a claim on it however.
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Iheartcoffee
Guest
You are one international flight from ANY deadly vaccine-preventable disease. It takes one international traveler with the disease to bring it to your area. Vaccines are a victim of their own success. If they weren’t so great at preventing deadly diseases you wouldn’t have all of these, “It can’t happen to my child” parents. They say it’s no big deal not to vaccinate because they haven’t been overseas and seen children dying of these preventable diseases. They also aren’t old enough to remember these diseases in the USA. Ask any elderly person about the “polio season” they feared every year.
I guess the thing that shocks me the most about the autism fears is that we have definitive proof that the guy that wrote that breakout paper fabricated results because he stood to gain a lot of money if he could claim they were dangerous. HE was the conspiracy! Not the drug companies!
Plus, if you think your doctor or the drug companies are getting rich off of standard childhood vaccines, you’re wrong. Spend enough time in the medical field and you will see these are barely break even shots. Doctors often lose money on them but use them anyway because they feel a moral obligation to use them. Many companies that produce them give so many of them away to try to meet big goals to reduce the disease that it’s not the big money maker most think it is.
I guess the thing that shocks me the most about the autism fears is that we have definitive proof that the guy that wrote that breakout paper fabricated results because he stood to gain a lot of money if he could claim they were dangerous. HE was the conspiracy! Not the drug companies!
Plus, if you think your doctor or the drug companies are getting rich off of standard childhood vaccines, you’re wrong. Spend enough time in the medical field and you will see these are barely break even shots. Doctors often lose money on them but use them anyway because they feel a moral obligation to use them. Many companies that produce them give so many of them away to try to meet big goals to reduce the disease that it’s not the big money maker most think it is.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
We are one asteroid away from destruction…
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heidi_storage
Guest
Well stated.
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Kit15
Guest
My daughter got chicken pox one month before she was due to get the vaccine. Her doc was pretty shocked because “no one just catches chicken pox anymore”. They were asking all sorts of question about where my child has been and what other kids does she come in contact with. A pair of young boys came up to her stroller and touched her while we were in the supermarket a few days before. They were excited and happy to see a baby but I didn’t know who they were. My best guess was that she got it from them but I’ll never know.
I’m grateful it was nothing worse. But that she caught a “I haven’t seen this in years!” case of anything was still upsetting and I’d be lying if I said it didn’t color my opinion any. I’m pretty chill about letting other moms do their thing what they choose pretty much never has any impact on me and mine. But this one is something I really struggle with because it CAN affect me.
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