Concealed Carry in Church?

[bearer]

Who has the final call on the property? The bishop does, the properties of the Church in his diocese are his assets and at his disposal. He is ultimately in charge of them. Also, if my bishop told me not to carry a firearm to mass I wouldn’t.

This concept of walking up to the priest and telling them you have a gun is insanity. It’s just crazy people! Why on earth would you do that? It’s legal, normal, a church is open to the public and it is to be expected that some of the people would be carrying.

What’s weird is how the mind of anti-gunners works.

You never answered about whether or not I should tell the priest if I am carrying my pocket knife.

Maybe I’m wrong, but it just seemed like you were arguing for the sake of arguing. Yes, the bishop has authority, but it usually doesn’t get to that level, and as far as I know, our bishop hasn’t said anything on the the issue. I respect your deference to yours.

What I would do is make an appointment with my pastor, or at least call and try to get him on the phone. If you think I’m an anti, you are mistaken. I just think it’s not unreasonable to let good friends know, discretely, when you’re bringing a weapon into their house. If you know your priests, it’s not going to be a problem. I agree that the Church is open to the public, but I think you can still impose upon it in a few ways.

Like I was trying to say, to each his own.

 

[chain]

Ultimately I think a lot of this discussion centers around cultural differences.

I grew up in rural Texas (but to some extent most of Texas likes to maintain some rural traditions). Growing up most of the cars were trucks - and 90% of them had gun racks in the windows (usually with a .22 rifle - a ranch tool, but sometimes a deer rifle, which put meat on the table). I can see how people growing up in my culture would view guns differently (as tools) than those who grow up in large cities that have a history of gang violence and turf wars. Honestly, guns at school were not that uncommon, but only because kids went strait from school to feeding the animals.

I have no doubt that the Bishops in Texas are fully aware of our concealed carry laws, and the notices they could give us. Perhaps they simply choose not to act because in our culture it is not considered disrespectful.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

I often see police openly carrying their guns in my parish. It doesn’t bother me one bit to see a gun in church and it doesn’t seem to bother anyone else, either. The pastor doesn’t mind at all, either.

I wouldn’t mind other people carrying (concealed) if they did so, although good luck that happening in Illinois.

As for myself, I never even gave a passing thought to concealed carry UNTIL I started working in a church. Some of the roughest-looking individuals come around, it’s a nasty part of town, and I’m often the only one around the church.

 

[micmacmoe]

Bringing back this old thread - this discussion recently came up with friends, and once again this website had a discussion. I have not carried a firearm into the church, nor do I think I ever will (unless requested to do so). However…

The reason I am posting is the discussion about Peter cutting off the ear of the high priest’s servant, and Jesus telling Peter to put away the sword. Ironically, the most crucial part of that story has been overlooked in this thread.

The priests when they arrived to arrest Jesus were the law of Israel. Their actions may have been unjust - as sometimes the authorities are - but regardless of their motives, they had a warrant for arrest, and Peter’s resistance was unlawful. Peter was misusing the very weapon Jesus had told him to purchase, and in doing so was not only breaking the law, but was in great risk of being arrested and put to death, if not killed right there in the garden.

Jesus’ merely admonished Peter for setting himself upon the path of a murderer and lawbreaker, reminding him (and us) that those who live in such manner come to a bitter and well-deserved end. Peter had sinned by resisting the authorities and drawing the servant’s blood - Jesus’ miracle erased Peter’s mistake, and likely saved his life.

None of which has anything at all to do with lawfully defending oneself, family, or congregation from the lawless.

I don’t know if this means you should carry a weapon in church, I’ll leave that to the Bishops.

 

[Mark_56]

I doubt that the US Bishops will make any clear statement on concealed carry in churches any time soon. It is within the legitimate freedom of the individual to decide on matters that have not been decided by the church.

Illinois and Wisconsin are the most restrictive states in the US for concealed carry, they do not grant concealed carry permits. Some states restrict concealed carry in churches, some do not.

I am a devout Catholic, attend daily mass, pray the rosary daily. I would not be surprised if others besides myself carry in my church, that is their business. If we are not offended by a law enforcement officer wearing his weapon in church, there is absolutely no reason to be offended by any other law-abiding citizen doing so. Law enforcement officers obey the same laws as the rest of us, and they can not protect all of us. You are the person primarily responsible for your own safety. I respect the decision of anyone who decides either to carry or not to carry. We all have to deal with the consequences of our actions. I would rather be judged by twelve than carried by six, and that goes double for my wife. I pray I am never ever in that situation, but if ever I am I will do all in my power do defend my wife, my loved ones, my friends, and my self.

There has been an increase in incidents of shootings in churches. Here’s some food for thought:

February 14, 2010 - Richmond, California - Three hooded men walk into Gethsemane Church of God in Christ and opened fire and then fled the scene, as the singing of the choir was replaced by frightened screams. The two victims, a 14-year-old boy and a 19-year-old man, were hospitalized.

May 31, 2009 – Wichita, Kansas – George Tiller, the nation’s most prominent provider of controversial late-term abortions, was shot and killed in the lobby of Reformation Lutheran Church where he was serving as an usher by Scott Roeder, 51, of Merriam, Kansas, a Kansas City suburb.

March 8, 2009 - Maryville, Illinois - Suspect Terry Joe Sedlacek, 27, of Troy, walks into the First Baptist Church, and shoots pastor Fred Winters dead, point blank. Several church members are injured by a knife in the struggle to capture after the attack. The suspect also had stabbed
himself, but survived, when his gun jams.

July 27, 2008 - Knoxville, Tennessee - A gunman opens fire in a church during a youth performance, killing two people and injuring seven.

Dec. 9, 2007 - Colorado - Three people are killed and five wounded in two shooting rampages, one at a missionary school in suburban Denver and one at a church in Colorado Springs. The gunman in the second incident is killed by a guard.

May 20, 2007 - Moscow, Idaho - A standoff between police and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one police officer.

Aug. 12, 2007 - Neosho, Missouri - First Congregational Church - 3 killed - Eiken Elam Saimon shot and killed the pastor and two deacons and wounded five others.

May 21, 2006 - Baton Rouge, Louisiana - The Ministry of Jesus Christ Church - 4 killed - The four at the church who were shot were members of Erica Bell’s family; she was abducted and murdered elsewhere; Bell’s mother, church pastor Claudia Brown, was seriously wounded - Anthony Bell, 25, was the shooter.

Feb. 26, 2006 - Detroit, Michigan - Zion Hope Missionary Baptist Church - 2 killed + shooter - Kevin L. Collins, who reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend, later killed himself.

April 9, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - A 27-year-old airman died after being shot at a church, where he had once worked as a security guard.

March 12, 2005 - Brookfield, Wisconsin - Living Church of God - 7 killed + shooter - Terry Ratzmann opened fire on the congregation, killing seven and wounding four before taking his own life.

July 30, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - World Changers Church International - shooter killed - Air Force Staff Sgt. John Givens was shot five times by a police officer after charging the officer, following violent behavior.

Dec. 17, 2004, Garden Grove, Calif.: A veteran musician at the Crystal Cathedral shoots himself to death after a nine-hour standoff.

Oct. 5, 2003 - Atlanta, Georgia - Turner Monumental AME Church - 2 killed + shooter - Shelia Wilson walked into the church while preparations are being made for service and shot the pastor, her mother and then herself.

June 10, 2002 - Conception, Missouri – Benedictine monastery - 2 killed + shooter - Lloyd Robert Jeffress shot four monks in the monastery killing two and wounding two, before killing himself.

March 12, 2002 - Lynbrook, New York - Our Lady of Peace Catholic Church - 2 killed - Peter Troy, a former mental patient, opens fire during Mass, killing the priest and a parishioner. He later receives a life sentence.

May 18, 2001 - Hopkinsville, Kentucky - Greater Oak Missionary Baptist Church - 2 killed - Frederick Radford stood up in the middle of a revival service and began shooting at his estranged wife, Nicole Radford, killing her and a woman trying to help her.

Sept. 15, 1999 - Fort Worth, Texas - Wedgewood Baptist Church - 7 killed + shooter - Larry Gene Ashbrook shot dead seven people and injured a further seven at a concert by Christian rock group Forty Days in Fort Worth, Texas before killing himself.

April 15, 1999 - Salt Lake City, Utah - LDS Church Family History Library - 2 killed + shooter - Sergei Babarin, 70, with a history of mental illness, entered the library, killed two people and wounded four others before he was gunned down by police.