Concelebration in the Divine Liturgy by RC bishop/priest

[ConstantineTG]

Can Roman Catholic clergy concelebrate in the Divine Liturgy even if they are not familiar with the Divine Liturgy?

Although I do not know the circumstances, I was looking at old pictures of our Eparchy when H.B. Lubomyr Husar visited. Among the people there was the Archbishop of Vancouver who of course shares the metropolis with the Eparchy. One photo during Divine Liturgy I noticed the Archbishop was at the altar/holy table to the right side. Not sure how knowledgeable he is regarding the Divine Liturgy, but assuming he’s not that familiar, what are the rules for this?

 

[edward_george]

My bishop recently concelebrated a Byzantine ordination held at a local Catholic school. I’d say that familiarity with the Divine Liturgy sufficient for concelebration could be established by a simple talk with the presiding priest/bishop beforehand, maybe a look at the liturgical books. It’s not really too big of a deal, and I’m sure if you had a Latin cleric attending a Byzantine liturgy and he wasn’t comfortable with concelebrating, he could simply assist in choir, just as he would at a Latin liturgy where he wasn’t celebrating.

-ACEGC

 

[ConstantineTG]

My bishop recently concelebrated a Byzantine ordination held at a local Catholic school. I’d say that familiarity with the Divine Liturgy sufficient for concelebration could be established by a simple talk with the presiding priest/bishop beforehand, maybe a look at the liturgical books. It’s not really too big of a deal, and I’m sure if you had a Latin cleric attending a Byzantine liturgy and he wasn’t comfortable with concelebrating, he could simply assist in choir, just as he would at a Latin liturgy where he wasn’t celebrating.

-ACEGC

Actually I don’t know the circumstances, I just saw photos of the RC Bishop on the Holy Table with the Patriarch and Bishop of the Eparchy during DL. I just wonder, is it required for a bishop/priest from the Latin Rite to have sufficient knowledge of the DL? Or can they just go up there and be present and just follow the other UGCC clergy?

 

[josephdaniel29]

I’d say that familiarity with the Divine Liturgy sufficient for concelebration could be established by a simple talk with the presiding priest/bishop beforehand, maybe a look at the liturgical books. It’s not really too big of a deal

Not too big of a deal? Have you ever attended a Byzantine hierarchical liturgy?

 

[Aramis]

Can Roman Catholic clergy concelebrate in the Divine Liturgy even if they are not familiar with the Divine Liturgy?

Although I do not know the circumstances, I was looking at old pictures of our Eparchy when H.B. Lubomyr Husar visited. Among the people there was the Archbishop of Vancouver who of course shares the metropolis with the Eparchy. One photo during Divine Liturgy I noticed the Archbishop was at the altar/holy table to the right side. Not sure how knowledgeable he is regarding the Divine Liturgy, but assuming he’s not that familiar, what are the rules for this?

Any catholic priest can be concelebrant in any catholic liturgy which allows concelebration.

If a priest has faculties for a given Rite or Use, he may celebrate that Rite or Use on any altar as celebrant, or if allowed by the rubrics, as concelebrant.

If he does not have faculties for the Rite or Use being celebrated, he may concelebrate, but should be vested as for a rite he has faculties for.

So, if a typical roman priest is on vacation, and finds himself at a Byzantine parish, he may concelebrate the DL, but not as primary celebrant. If he has them with, he should vest as for a Roman Mass. As an economia, a priest travelling without vestments might be vested in spare vestments, but that’s not actually what the rubrics require.

I’ve seen Byantine priests without Roman faculties vested as byzantines and concelebrating at Roman masses.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Any catholic priest can be concelebrant in any catholic liturgy which allows concelebration.

If a priest has faculties for a given Rite or Use, he may celebrate that Rite or Use on any altar as celebrant, or if allowed by the rubrics, as concelebrant.

If he does not have faculties for the Rite or Use being celebrated, he may concelebrate, but should be vested as for a rite he has faculties for.

So, if a typical roman priest is on vacation, and finds himself at a Byzantine parish, he may concelebrate the DL, but not as primary celebrant. If he has them with, he should vest as for a Roman Mass. As an economia, a priest travelling without vestments might be vested in spare vestments, but that’s not actually what the rubrics require.

I’ve seen Byantine priests without Roman faculties vested as byzantines and concelebrating at Roman masses.

I don’t think faculties would have been an issue since the Eparch and the Patriarch are there with the Archbishop. I’m just wondering if a sufficient knowledge of the Liturgy is required. Would it be okay if he just stands around? Especially at consecration where everyone should say the words at the same time, or is that optional?

I wish I was there but it was nearly 3 years ago and I’m just asking today out of curiousity.

 

[josephdaniel29]

Especially at consecration where everyone should say the words at the same time, or is that optional?

Is that the practice in the Byzantine Catholic Churches?

 

[Aramis]

Is that the practice in the Byzantine Catholic Churches?

No, only the words of institution are chanted by all presbyters together.

 

[Aramis]

I don’t think faculties would have been an issue since the Eparch and the Patriarch are there with the Archbishop. I’m just wondering if a sufficient knowledge of the Liturgy is required. Would it be okay if he just stands around? Especially at consecration where everyone should say the words at the same time, or is that optional?

I wish I was there but it was nearly 3 years ago and I’m just asking today out of curiousity.

No knowledge at all besides his own rite is required for a priest to concelebrate.

To be primary celebrant, yes, he’d need faculties. Or to be a bishop. which is a whole different ball of issue.

 

[ConstantineTG]

No knowledge at all besides his own rite is required for a priest to concelebrate.

To be primary celebrant, yes, he’d need faculties. Or to be a bishop. which is a whole different ball of issue.

A bishop would have universal faculties within his own Rite only, right? I mean, bi-ritual faculties are separate faculties. An RC bishop can hear confessions in Ukraine for example, but only do it in the Roman Rite, not the Byzantine Rite.

Anyway, like I said faculties would not have been an issue at that Divine Liturgy with the Eparch and Patriarch there, if faculties would have been needed to be granted it could be granted instantly.

So if the RC Bishop wasn’t familiar with the Divine Liturgy, would the other priests then be directing them or pointing to the proper prayers? I guess most of the low-tone prayers would need to be said only by one of the priests/bishops, right?

 

[edward_george]

The administrator at the Ukrainian Mission I sometimes attend told me how they instructed a visiting Latin Bishop when he concelebrated.

“We handed him a liturgy book and said ‘read this.’”

-ACEGC

 

[ConstantineTG]

The administrator at the Ukrainian Mission I sometimes attend told me how they instructed a visiting Latin Bishop when he concelebrated.

“We handed him a liturgy book and said ‘read this.’”

-ACEGC

Hahahah, awesome!

However a Latin bishop/priest may get lost in the Liturgy as some of the low-tone prayers are said while the Deacon/other priest is leading the congregation in prayer. He doesn’t know the cues where he should be.

 

[Aramis]

A bishop would have universal faculties within his own Rite only, right? I mean, bi-ritual faculties are separate faculties. An RC bishop can hear confessions in Ukraine for example, but only do it in the Roman Rite, not the Byzantine Rite.

Only sorta-kinda… a bishop (or priest in good standing) has universal faculties for the liturgy his own rite, being able to say it on any Catholic (or if permitted by the pastor, EO, OO, ACE, or PNCC) Altar, provided he proves to the pastor his good standing. (In the US, usually by a clergy ID card recently issued.)

A bishop, however, is technically allowed, for good cause, to use any rite not otherwise restricted. (Examples of off limits would be the various western subrites - Dominican, Mozarabic, etc.) Having good cause, however, pretty much boils down to “being the bishop of the parish”… So a Roman bishop with an Anglican Use parish can use the BoDW pontifical mass, or the Roman, depending on where he’s saying it; likewise, a bishop with Roman and Russian church parishes can use both the Roman Pontifical and the Russian HDL.

Anyway, like I said faculties would not have been an issue at that Divine Liturgy with the Eparch and Patriarch there, if faculties would have been needed to be granted it could be granted instantly.

Actually, only temporary faculties. And they’re only needed to vest in the other rite and/or be principal celebrant.

So if the RC Bishop wasn’t familiar with the Divine Liturgy, would the other priests then be directing them or pointing to the proper prayers? I guess most of the low-tone prayers would need to be said only by one of the priests/bishops, right?

Yep. pretty much. Tho, most of the low tone prayers are only supposed to be said by one, anyway. The Ruthenian priest’s litugikon is quite explicit about how to break up the parts.

Actually, if a deacon is present, it’s actually part of his liturgical role to prompt the priests. (Take a look at the clerical version of the liturgikon. all the “Rev Father, «insert instruction»” Give the blessing, bess the gifts, bless the proclaimer of the Holy Gospel, etc…)