Concelebration in the EF?

[Dan_Daly]

Title of the thread pretty much says it all. Is there such a thing as concelebration in the extraordinary form of the Mass?

Pax and God Bless.

 

[malphono]

No, not as a rule. The main exception is the ordination of a bishop or priest, where the newly ordained concelebrates with the ordaining bishop.

 

[Dan_Daly]

Thank you. That is interesting. So if a Bishop ordains four new priests at one Mass, all four would concelebrate with the Bishop? Of course, I’m coming at this from my knowledge of OF ordinations. Are EF ordinations done of more than one priest at a time?

My understanding of the OF is that a new priest celebrates his “first Mass” on a different occasion from his ordination. Does a newly ordained priest concelebrate his ordination mass in the OF?

Very interesting stuff. Thanks again.

Pax.

 

[malphono]

Thank you. That is interesting. So if a Bishop ordains four new priests at one Mass, all four would concelebrate with the Bishop? Of course, I’m coming at this from my knowledge of OF ordinations. Are EF ordinations done of more than one priest at a time?

Yes, all would concelebrate, and yes, more than one may be ordained at the same time. For example, here is a photo of an ICRSS ordination.

My understanding of the OF is that a new priest celebrates his “first Mass” on a different occasion from his ordination.

This true for the Usus Antiquior as well. Normally in the Usus Antiquior, ordinations are on a Saturday, with the “first Mass” on Sunday.

Does a newly ordained priest concelebrate his ordination mass in the OF?

AFAIK, yes.

 

[AntiqueCatholic]

In the rite of ordination, there is not concelebration. The priest recites the formula along with the Bishop but he does not co-consecrate.
sanctamissa.org/en/faq/concelebration.html

Personally, I find concelebration troubling. I saw a couple of Franciscan priests both placing their hands over the chalice at a mas. If a priest is acting in persona Christi, which one of them is he?

 

[ProVobis]

Personally, I find concelebration troubling.

I as well. I find it troubling from the point of view that it makes it seem (or possibly conveys the message to an outside observer) that the consecration is more valid than with a single priest. This is, of course, not true.

 

[Will_S]

In the rite of ordination, there is not concelebration. The priest recites the formula along with the Bishop but he does not co-consecrate.
sanctamissa.org/en/faq/concelebration.html

I always find it interesting when someone makes an assertion and then provides a link that fails to back up the assertion.

It may well be the case that the ordinandi at an EF ordination do not co-consecrate (I don’t know), but the link provided doesn’t make that claim at all. It only notes that the ordinandi do not stand at the altar, but instead remain kneeling at some distance from the altar as they say the canon of the Mass.

 

[MarkThompson]

Title of the thread pretty much says it all. Is there such a thing as concelebration in the extraordinary form of the Mass?

Pax and God Bless.

Forescue explains the history of concelebration in the Roman Rite as follows in the old Catholic Encyclopedia:
Concelebration is the rite by which several priests say Mass together, all consecrating the same bread and wine. It was once common in both East and West. As late as the ninth century priests stood around their bishop and “consented to his sacrifice”. The rite of Concelebration was modified at Rome (perhaps in the time of Pope Zephyrinus, 202-218) so that each priest should consecrate a separate host (the deacons holding these in patens or corporals); but they all consecrated the same chalice. In the sixth century this rite was observed on all station days; by the eighth century it remained only for the greatest feasts, Easter, Christmas, Whitsunday, and St. Peter. On other days the priests assisted but did not concelebrate. Innocent III (1198-1216) says that in his time the cardinals concelebrate with the pope on certain feasts. Durandus, who denied the possibility of such a rite is refuted by Cardinal Bona. St. Thomas defends its theological correctness. Concelebration is still common in all the Eastern Churches both Catholic and schismatic. In these, on any greater feast day, the bishop says the holy liturgy surrounded by his priests, who consecrate with him and receive Holy Communion from him, of course under both kinds. So also, at any time, if several priests wish to celebrate on the same day, they may do so together.

In the Latin Church the rite survives only at the ordination of priests and bishops. The newly-ordained priests say the Offertory prayers and the whole Canon, including the words of consecration, aloud with the bishop, kneeling around him. The words of consecration especially must be said “slowly and rather loud” and “at the same moment with the pontiff”. They must say the words significative, that is with the intention of consecrating, and must be careful not to say them before, but exactly with, the bishop. They receive Holy Communion under one kind. The same rite is used at a bishop’s consecration, except that in this case the new bishop communicates with the consecrator under both kinds. [Citations omitted.]

Personally, I find concelebration troubling. I saw a couple of Franciscan priests both placing their hands over the chalice at a mas. If a priest is acting in persona Christi, which one of them is he?

Not much stranger than having two Masses going on at different altars in the same church at the same time, or than having having Christ present on the paten and in the tabernacle simultaneously. The impulse you’re feeling is the same one that has caused people to remove extra crucifixes from churches because “reduplication of the symbol might be confusing to people.”

 

[malphono]

In the rite of ordination, there is not concelebration. The priest recites the formula along with the Bishop but he does not co-consecrate.
sanctamissa.org/en/faq/concelebration.html

Well, according to the link (which agrees with what [post=8354348]MarkThompson[/post] quoted from Fortescue) they do. For the sake of clarity, I’ve pasted it here (emphasis added):

Is con-celebration among priests allowed in the Extraordinary Form?

In the Traditional Latin Mass con-celebration only occurs at the Mass of the Ordination of a Priest and at the Mass of the Ordination of a Bishop. **In the Ordination of a Priest according to the 1962 Missal the rubrics establish that the concelebrating **priests be only those who are ordained at that Mass. Thus the priests attending the Ordination Mass of Priests do not concelebrate but only the Ordinandi.

The manner of con-celebration at the Mass of the Ordination of a Priest is not identical to the manner of con-celebration in the Ordinary Form. Rather in the Extraordinary Form the concelebrating priest, at his Mass of Ordination, kneels at some distance from the altar. While the Canon of the Mass is normally read in “vox secreta,” at an Ordination Mass the Canon Missae is said out loud by the Bishop. While the Ordaining Bishop reads the Canon of the Mass out loud the newly ordained priest(s) simultaneously recite(s) the Canon of the Mass in “vox secreta”. Furthermore the newly ordained receive only the Sacred Host. The Ordinandi receive the Sacred Host on the tongue from the Ordaining Bishop while kneeling at the altar. Afterwards the Ordinandi receive a chalice of unconsecrated wine at the credence table as an ablution. The Ordinandi do not receive the Precious Blood.

 

[Dan_Daly]

Thanks to all for the helpful replies.

Pax.