Concelebration

[jco2004]

I’ve been a practicing Catholic for many years, and of course had been aware of concelebrated Masses and was vaguely uncomfortable with the idea, but it recently struck me that it is profoundly wrong. The Eucharist was instituted by one Priest, the Lord Jesus Christ; how in the world can several people aptly represent our one High Priest? It seems to me that having one presider is absolutely essential.
If someone wants to refer me to where this is dealt with in the CCC, great, as I was unable to locate it. If there has been extensive discussion on this in the past, I will be glad to look at the archives. Don’t just say, “The Church allows it, so it must be ok”, because that doesn’t convince me. I’ve been on the fence between remaining RC and going Orthodox for some time now, and this may push me over the edge. Joe

 

[Kuryakyn]

I’ve been a practicing Catholic for many years, and of course had been aware of concelebrated Masses and was vaguely uncomfortable with the idea, but it recently struck me that it is profoundly wrong. The Eucharist was instituted by one Priest, the Lord Jesus Christ; how in the world can several people aptly represent our one High Priest? It seems to me that having one presider is absolutely essential.
If someone wants to refer me to where this is dealt with in the CCC, great, as I was unable to locate it. If there has been extensive discussion on this in the past, I will be glad to look at the archives. Don’t just say, “The Church allows it, so it must be ok”, because that doesn’t convince me. I’ve been on the fence between remaining RC and going Orthodox for some time now, and this may push me over the edge. Joe

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t at least some of the Orthodox churches-- if not all-- do concelebrations? I will let others deal with the Catechism texts, as I am not well versed in them, but I fail to see how concelebrations could be such a big stumbling block. It’s not like if each priest is representing a seperate Christ-- all priests become united with the One Christ in every Liturgy and Mass.

 

[Em_in_FL]

This link has a lot of information, including references…
Maybe this will help???

I’ve never thought about the question of concelebration before… so this is interesting!

 

[augieboo]

The Eucharist was instituted by one Priest, the Lord Jesus Christ; how in the world can several people aptly represent our one High Priest? It seems to me that having one presider is absolutely essential.

Having only one presider is only essential if we confuse the symbolism and the reality.

There is only one priest – Jesus Christ. The guy (or guys) in the funny robes are nothing more than stand-ins who have permission to pronounce the words of consecration.

GOD does all the work, whether it is a single priest or the Pope and the entire College of Cardinals standing at the altar.

Thus, an argument can be made that concelebration may present less than perfect symbolism, but that is really the only complaint we can make about it.

Don’t just say, “The Church allows it, so it must be ok”, because that doesn’t convince me. I’ve been on the fence between remaining RC and going Orthodox for some time now, and this may push me over the edge. Joe

I’m sorry that the fact that the Church allows it doesn’t convince you, but it really is sufficient from a theological point of view. I am attaching an outline on the authority of the Magisterium which I cobbled together for our RCIA program. (I hope it works, I’ve never tried to do that before with a PDF file.)

In the meantime, consider this:

During Holy Week, every bishop in the Church, (including the Pope), celebrates the Chrism Mass, at which the oils for annointing and such are consecrated for the following year. Every priest in a diocese is attends, because they renew their vows of obedience etc to the bishop at this Mass. In addition, they all concelebrate the Mass.

According to Wikipedia, (which admittedly is not always the best source for accurate info on the Church),

Concelebration is and has always been common in the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches. However, in the Roman Catholic Church the practice for a long time fell into disuse and has also recently been revived.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concelebration

The online Catholic Encyclopedia echoes the same.

Concelebration is still common in all the Eastern Churches both Catholic and schismatic. In these, on any greater feast day, the bishop says the holy liturgy surrounded by his priests, who consecrate with him and receive Holy Communion from him, of course under both kinds. So also, at any time, if several priests wish to celebrate on the same day, they may do so together.

newadvent.org/cathen/04190a.htm

In addition, a quick surf around Google gives me the impression that the Orthodox prohibition on concelebration concerns concelebration with other segments of the orthodox church, not with how many priests are at the altar:

The Syriac Orthodox Church routinely hosts and participates in the concelebration of the divine liturgy with the Coptic and Armenian Churches sor.cua.edu/Ecumenism/index.html

Here are several acts condeming concelebration among various Orthodox groups. orthodoxfaith.com/ecumenism_councils.html

On the other hand, the Orthodox do not seem to be all of the same mind even about concelebration with Roman Rite Catholics, as evidenced in this story about an Orthodox chapel being opened within a (Roman Rite) Catholic cathedral. cathcon.blogspot.com/2007/03/orthodox-get-their-own-chapel-in.html

Here are some concelebrating Russian Orthodox bishops. holycrossonline.org/latest_news/special_events/2007/051707.php

 

[Walking_Home]

Having only one presider is only essential if we confuse the symbolism and the reality.

There is only one priest – Jesus Christ. The guy (or guys) in the funny robes are nothing more than stand-ins who have permission to pronounce the words of consecration.
GOD does all the work, whether it is a single priest or the Pope and the entire College of Cardinals standing at the altar.

---

Ever hear of ordination. That is much more than just “having permission”. Without a validly ordained priest—there is no consecration.

 

[RobNY]

I’ve been a practicing Catholic for many years, and of course had been aware of concelebrated Masses and was vaguely uncomfortable with the idea, but it recently struck me that it is profoundly wrong. The Eucharist was instituted by one Priest, the Lord Jesus Christ; how in the world can several people aptly represent our one High Priest? It seems to me that having one presider is absolutely essential.
If someone wants to refer me to where this is dealt with in the CCC, great, as I was unable to locate it. If there has been extensive discussion on this in the past, I will be glad to look at the archives. Don’t just say, “The Church allows it, so it must be ok”, because that doesn’t convince me. I’ve been on the fence between remaining RC and going Orthodox for some time now, and this may push me over the edge. Joe

It seems to me, and I don’t mean this in a rude way, to be a flimsy objection.

Remember that all priests are not truly priests-- Christ Himself is the only true priest-- they are priests inasmuch as they share in Christ’s one, unique priesthood.

You seem to see it as a problem because Christ is one, and yet, there are several priests. The problem is, this problem persists inside and outside of Mass-- based on your objection one might as well ask, how can* many* ministerial priests represent the one Christ?

Like the body of Christ, where many members subsist in unity, the key to “oneness” is not strict numerical oneness-- for the Body of Christ herself is not one in that sense-- but one in her unity. Concelebration is, at its best, a celebration of the mysterious unity of the Church, the unity that the presbyters have with their bishop. As the guidelines say, “the mystery of the unity of the Church is manifested through the Eucharist and that priests appear before the community as the presbyterate of the Bishop.” Indeed, it seems especially fitting as a means of expressing that mysterious unity which has its source in the bishop. One can hardly think of this mystery without contemplating how profoundly concelebration expresses that unity which St. Ignatius of Antioch constantly advocated to the laity, deacons and presbyterate to obey your bishop.

I did a quick search and found this document by Pope Benedict XIV called, Allatae Sunt (On the Observance of Oriental Rites), which has this interesting paragraph on concelebration, calling it an ‘oriental practice’ which has fallen out of favor in the West.

1. Finally, it was custom in both the western and the eastern church for the priests to offer Mass together with the bishop. The evidence is collected by Christianus Lupus in the Appendix on the Council of Chalcedon in his ad Concilia Generalia, et Provincialia, vol. 1, p. 994, of the first edition, where he interprets the words of Bassianus: “He used to celebrate Masses with me and to communicate with me”; and by Georgius, Lyturgiae Pontificiae, vol. 2, p. lf, and vol. 3, p. lf. The rite of concelebration is now out of fashion in the western church, except at priestly ordinations performed by the bishop and at episcopal consecrations where two bishops assist the consecrating bishop. But this rite continues to thrive in the Oriental Church, and priests often concelebrate with the bishop or with the priest as chief celebrant. This practice is derived from the Apostolic Constitutions, bk. 8, and the eighth Apostolic Canon. And wherever this custom is practiced among Greeks and Orientals, it is approved and to be preserved as We command in Our constitution Demandatam, sect. 9.

It is called a “custom” of both East and West, and is said to derive from the Apostolic Constitutions. It seems to be a venerable and ancient practice.

-Rob

 

[augieboo]

Without a validly ordained priest—there is no consecration.

Absolutely!

Because only a validly ordained priest has permission (authority if you prefer) to speak the words of consecration.

By the way, I was referring to permission from God, not permission from humans.

I sometimes think in shorthand, and thus do not make myself clear, so I’ll let a higher authority speak for me. Regarding the “power” to consecrate, Pope Benedict – writing as then-Cardinal Ratzinger – teaches the following:

I would prefer not to speak of “power”, although this term has been used since the early Middle Ages. I think it is better to approach it from another angle. In order that what happened then may become present now, the words “This is my body–This is my blood” must be said. But the speaker of these words is the “I” of Jesus Christ. Only he can say them; they are his words. No man can dare to take to himself the “I” and “my” of Jesus Christ – and yet the words must be said if the saving mystery is not to remain something in the distant past. So authority to pronounce them is needed, an authority which no man can assume and which no congregation, nor even many congregations together, can confer. Only Jesus Christ himself, in the “sacramental” form he has committed to the whole Church, can give this authority. The word must be located, as it were, in the sacrament; it must be part of the “sacrament” of the Church, partaking of an authority which she does not create, but only transmits. This is what is meant by “ordination” and “priesthood”.

(Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, The Feast of Faith, p. 94, underlining added, italics in original).

 

[mchium]

Hmmmm - interesting ideas. I could be totally off the wall, but I just always assumed that the main celebrant was just that - the main celebrant - and therefore the priest saying the Mass. The other priests assembled were uniting with him in spirit and intention - they were not, all of them, consecrating or confecting the Eucharist.

Then again…maybe, because they are all priests, all ‘alter Christus’, when they all join as brothers in saying Mass, there still is only one - the Word, Jesus, saying the Mass.

To parse it further may just be something that breaks our heads when the reality is the economy and mystery of the almighty

 

[stbruno]

This is the link from the US Council of Catholic bishops which describes how a mass may be celebrated. You must scroll down to the section about a Concelebrated mass but it clearly explains what it is, why it is, and how it is to be celebrated.

usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter4.shtml

 

[jco2004]

Thank you for your replies, and the links. Apparently, after checking with some Orthodox, they do also have concelebrated liturgies, although one priest is still considered the principal celebrant. I’m still not sure if there is one principal celebrant in Catholic concelebrated masses. Anyway, if it is indeed such an ancient practice, I will have to reconcile myself to it.
To the poster who said it’s onlya problem if I confuse symbolism with reality, I reply that symbolism and reality are intextricably intertwined, otherwise the symbolism would be misleading. Joe

 

[Pius_X]

Yes, when the Mass is concelebrated in a Catholic Church, there is a principal celebrant.