Concept of death and Jesus on the cross

[dattaswami]

Concept of death and Jesus on the cross

One of you asked Me about the significance of cross in Christianity. Some scholars have interpreted it to the striking of I, which represents the egoism. It is a good interpretation but it does not speak about the significance of Jesus present on the cross in the process of crucification. Therefore, if you consider both the cross and Jesus on it, there is more important significance, which represents the death of Jesus. In the death the soul leaves this external human body. It indicates that one day or other you have to leave your body and everything and everybody associated with the body.

Therefore, the concept of death is the most sacred spiritual preacher, which preaches about the non-eternal bonds with your relations and related things in this world. Thus, death is the most pious concept and one should not fear for it. You should not fear for your spiritual preacher who is the most sacred and pious. You must give your utmost attention to this most pious spiritual preacher, the concept of death. When Nachiketa asked his father about the donation of himself, his father told that he would be donated to the God of death called Yama. Infact, Nachiketa received the best spiritual knowledge from Yama as you find in Veda. Everybody knows that death is inevitable. But such is only knowledge. By Knowledge one just knows. This is not sufficient unless the knowledge is often memorised, which leads to realization. Thus, knowledge, memorization and realization are the three steps after which only practice comes as said in Veda (Srotavyo….).

Due to the absence of the other two steps, in practice the human being is behaving as if these worldly bonds are eternal. Unless these bonds are cut, liberation or salvation is impossible. Without liberation attainment of God is subsequently not possible. When you are bound to certain things, how can you achieve other things? The attachment to the Lord is unable to give the salvation from these bonds because the attachment to the Lord is not strong. Unless you realise the nature of these bonds, you cannot get salvation from these bonds. The nature of these bonds is best exposed by the concept of death. Thus, when you are constantly looking at the cross with Jesus on it in the process of crucification, then you realise the nature of these bonds continuously. Such continuous realization leads to continuous practice. Practise alone can give the result. Thus, the cross with Jesus in the phase of death is having the greatest spiritual significance in giving you the liberation. Unless you derive the concept from the statue of Jesus on cross, such statue becomes useless, if it is conceived only in the sense of the death of Jesus.

Jesus himself advises the people not to weep on His death, but they should weep about themselves. This means that the physical sense of crucification should not be taken. If you take the internal significance; it will be useful for your spiritual development. Thus, when you are worshiping the idols, the concepts for which the idols stand should be realised. The constant attention on the idol is also necessary so that the concept is memorised again and again. It is for this purpose, the idol worship is introduced. Therefore, one should not mock at the idol worship. Christians wear cross with Jesus on it in the chain around the neck. The church also shows the same. Such photos are in the houses. All this is the idol worship. I do not know why they criticize the idol worship and follow the same in practice. The Christian scriptures criticize the idol worship. The point in such criticism is that mere worship of idols without realizing the concepts for which those idols were created is useless. From this angle idol worship is to be criticized. Thus, you have both positive and negative angles for any point based on the context. Thus, we know the concept of death but we have not realized it. Therefore, we do not remember the concept. Our continuous impression is only about the life, which we are constantly experiencing. Hence, our feeling was that we lived in the past, we are living in the present and we will live forever in the future. Due to this we feel that these bonds are eternal and that this world is also eternal. It is said that spiritual knowledge is to be obtained from Lord Siva (Jnanam Mahesvarat…). Lord Siva is famous for destroying the world.

 

[dattaswami]

Thus, when we remember Siva, we must remember that this world is not eternal. Siva lives in burial ground. This again signifies that any individual has to meet the death. Therefore, Siva preaches you that both this world and your body are not eternal. Yama, the deity of death preached spiritual knowledge to Nachiketa, which means that the concept of death gives you real spiritual knowledge. The brother of Yama, Sani (Saturn) is the source of all problems and troubles. Astrology says that the planet Sani is the source of spiritual knowledge (Jnana karaka…). Again this means that troubles only make you active by which you will think about God. Thus, Sani and Yama, the brothers, are the source of problems and death give you spiritual knowledge. The pleasures will make you inactive, egoistic and inert.

Kunti asked Krishna for constant troubles only. The very word Siva means auspicious or most pious. This again means that his work of the destruction of world and his burial ground indicate the temporary existence of world and body. Such realization is most sacred. Therefore, the very meaning of the word Siva is that is most sacred spiritual preacher. Yama and Sani are said to be born to the Sun. Sun represents intelligence and light of knowledge, which removes the dark ignorance. This again indicates that the concepts of problems and death are the products of the real intellectual spiritual knowledge.

 

[Tietjen]

Forgive me, I am but a modest Irish-Norwegian Catholic and not familiar with things outside this world. I did see all the episodes of Star Wars though. Did you have a question behind all these bizarre postings or did you simply want to prove that you were “unique?”

 

[Montalban]

Forgive me, I am but a modest Irish-Norwegian Catholic and not familiar with things outside this world. I did see all the episodes of Star Wars though. Did you have a question behind all these bizarre postings or did you simply want to prove that you were “unique?”

At least you seem to have understood those two posts :tiphat:

 

[thistle]

Thus, when we remember Siva, we must remember that this world is not eternal. Siva lives in burial ground. This again signifies that any individual has to meet the death. Therefore, Siva preaches you that both this world and your body are not eternal. Yama, the deity of death preached spiritual knowledge to Nachiketa, which means that the concept of death gives you real spiritual knowledge. The brother of Yama, Sani (Saturn) is the source of all problems and troubles. Astrology says that the planet Sani is the source of spiritual knowledge (Jnana karaka…). Again this means that troubles only make you active by which you will think about God. Thus, Sani and Yama, the brothers, are the source of problems and death give you spiritual knowledge. The pleasures will make you inactive, egoistic and inert.

Kunti asked Krishna for constant troubles only. The very word Siva means auspicious or most pious. This again means that his work of the destruction of world and his burial ground indicate the temporary existence of world and body. Such realization is most sacred. Therefore, the very meaning of the word Siva is that is most sacred spiritual preacher. Yama and Sani are said to be born to the Sun. Sun represents intelligence and light of knowledge, which removes the dark ignorance. This again indicates that the concepts of problems and death are the products of the real intellectual spiritual knowledge.

What kind of weird Christian sect do you belong to?

 

[LilyM]

What kind of weird Christian sect do you belong to?

I’m guessing heavily influenced by Hinduism and/or Buddshism by the terminology - possibly not really Christian at all.

 

[ssejllenrad]

I’m guessing heavily influenced by Hinduism and/or Buddshism by the terminology - possibly not really Christian at all.

I agree… Maybe Mara Mantra… or Brahma Kumaris… I dunno… Well I mentioned those two coz that’s the only Hindu sects I’m aware of… Hehe!

 

[dattaswami]

While preaching the Lord follows the psychology of receiver and speaks to His corresponding level only in a palatable way (Priyam) so that he will not run away on hearing a harsh truth (Satyam), which may correspond to higher level. But at the same time the Lord will not preach a lie (Amrutam) even if it is liked very much. At the same time he will introduce slightly higher level so that a little truth with little harshness is introduced. The psychology of the receiver which likes only palatable concepts is as important as the truth. If a lie which is highly palatable is spoken, the huge majority of followers will appear. But what is the use of such preaching? Because the receiver is not really benefited in long range (upper world). If the entire concept is reveled, it is so harsh that people will run away without even hearing it. Therefore, the middle gold path of Aristotle should be followed so that a minority of followers appears.

If the preacher shows some miracles, huge crowds will follow who will be interested in solving their problems by exploiting that super power. In that case the preacher may speak any nonsense, the followers will be clapping. The devotion of such followers is only artificial and such devotees are the prostitute devotees. The miracles are exhibited by the Lord spontaneously in the case of extreme necessity for the sake of a really deserving devotee. The miracle is expected to help the devotee in the spiritual path.

At the Lotus Feet of His Holiness Sri Dattaswami

Anil Antony

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

 

[ssejllenrad]

May I know the purpose of this thread. I admit I don’t have any idea and I’m so confused… Please explain?

 

[dattaswami]

May I know the purpose of this thread. I admit I don’t have any idea and I’m so confused… Please explain?

Thank you, i will explain further;

**
Spiritual journey of a soul**

Initially the Lord attracts the devotee through miracles and creates belief and devotion in the mind of a human being. Thus the human being is converted into devotee. Thus from the stage of human being the soul carries on the journey to the stage of a devotee. This journey is taking place due to the effort of the Lord only. This is called as the “Marjala Kisora Nyaya”, which means the mother cat carrying on its off spring by catching it with her mouth. The effort of the human being is nil in this case. But the human being must have open mind to receive the help from the Lord and to recognize the existence of the super natural power of the Lord and thereby to recognize the existence of the Lord. For such situation the problems and troubles in the life which are due to Karma Chakra (The wheel of deeds) are also helping the soul. Thus the troubles are the real helpers towards the spiritual line.

The misery due to the troubles is praised by the Lord in Gita (Aartho…… Udaaraah). Kunti (a devotee of God)asked for constant troubles from the Lord. In this stage though the effort of the soul is nil, the soul must have flexibility and open mind to recognize the helper, the Lord. The impartial Lord gives this opportunity equally to all the human beings but the atheist due to absence of open mind and due to foolish rigidity does not accept the existence of the Lord even after such help. Thus though we say that the effort of the individual is nil in this case, to have open mind to realize the truth is also considered as the effort of the human being.

When the effort of the human being exists, it is called as “Markata Kisora Nyaya”, which means the off spring is holding on itself by catching the womb of its mother-monkey. Thus both these lines always co-exist and are mutual to each other.

In the sacred book “Yoga Vasista”, the preacher Vasista preaches spiritual knowledge to Rama. In the very beginning itself Vasista emphasizes on the effort of the individual soul (Purusha Prayatna). Without the effort of the soul if the Lord has to carry on the devotee by His grip only, then the Lord has to carry on all the souls of the creation. Then only the Lord can become impartial. If that is done there is no meaning of the creation because the thrill of love disappears. The love of one in millions cannot be tasted by the Lord.

If all the students in the class get cent percent and if all are given gold medals, then there is no thrill. But the teacher puts his effort equally on all the students and every student has equal opportunity to get the gold medal. When one gets the gold medal we cannot blame the teacher to be partial. The teacher wishes and puts equal effort on all the students and aspires every student to get the gold medal. But the fact is that only one gets the gold medal.

The aspiration of the teacher and his practical effort without any partiality is completely different and the actual fact that takes place is all together totally different. You cannot link these two contradicting extreme facts. It is true that the teacher wishes that every student should stand first and he puts equal effort on every student without any trace of partiality. At the same time it is also equally true that only one student stands first

. From the point of the teacher we have to appreciate the way of mother cat. From the point of the student you have to appreciate the way of mother monkey. The teacher tries to carry on every student to the goal like the mother cat. But only one student reaches the goal because of his strongest grip. Thus both the lines are equally important from their own angles. The teacher is always like the mother cat. The off spring should be always like the baby monkey.

At Thy Lotus Feet His Holiness Sri Dattaswami

Anil Antony

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

 

[JimG]

ssejllenrad:

May I know the purpose of this thread. I admit I don’t have any idea and I’m so confused… Please explain?

dattaswami:

Thank you, i will explain further;

*You had to ask. *

 

[kevb]

*You had to ask. *

By explaining further, did he need to hijack this entire forum with 8 different threads? :yawn:

 

[dattaswami]

By explaining further, did he need to hijack this entire forum with 8 different threads? :yawn:

kevb;

I noted your concern.

When Lord come in human form His main objective is to preach and uplift the human souls. The spiritual concepts require clear cut explanation from all the angles, so that a complete idea is given to the person who is having the doubts.

Lord assumes human form so that His people can approach Him without any tension and apprehension. This is the main reason Lord come in Human form. When there is an easiest natural path Lord will adopt this, this way others get benifited they can clear all their doubts. No one can appraoch God directly this is because Lrod is beyond our imagination and comprehension. Such God created this entire universe for His entertainment.

Lord is substratum of the whole creation and hence forms base. Without Him creation cannot sustain. Lord created the universe for entertainment. He has given free will to all the human beings to do whatever they like. But, the results will follow the deeds. So, He is indirectly controlling, that is to say that enjoyment for good deeds and misery for bad deeds. Misery is to bring realisation only and not to repeat the same bad deed. Otherwise, He is not responsible for one’s deeds.

Creation is in Lord but Lord is not the creation. But such a Lord can enter creation at the request of devotees who wants Him only and His service. He comes down to give four fortunes to His devotees (to talk, to touch, co-living and to serve).

Please do not hesitate ask any questions.

 

[thistle]

kevb;

I noted your concern.

When Lord come in human form His main objective is to preach and uplift the human souls. The spiritual concepts require clear cut explanation from all the angles, so that a complete idea is given to the person who is having the doubts.

Lord assumes human form so that His people can approach Him without any tension and apprehension. This is the main reason Lord come in Human form. When there is an easiest natural path Lord will adopt this, this way others get benifited they can clear all their doubts. No one can appraoch God directly this is because Lrod is beyond our imagination and comprehension. Such God created this entire universe for His entertainment.

Lord is substratum of the whole creation and hence forms base. Without Him creation cannot sustain. Lord created the universe for entertainment. He has given free will to all the human beings to do whatever they like. But, the results will follow the deeds. So, He is indirectly controlling, that is to say that enjoyment for good deeds and misery for bad deeds. Misery is to bring realisation only and not to repeat the same bad deed. Otherwise, He is not responsible for one’s deeds.

Creation is in Lord but Lord is not the creation. But such a Lord can enter creation at the request of devotees who wants Him only and His service. He comes down to give four fortunes to His devotees (to talk, to touch, co-living and to serve).

Please do not hesitate ask any questions.

Can you please stop all this Hindu gibberish!!

 

[LilyM]

Can you please stop all this Hindu gibberish!!

It’s not gibberish, it’s a well-established and perfectly respectable religion.

If we learn about other religions in the correct (humble and respectful) spirit such knowledge can only enhance our own Catholic faith and our practice of it.

 

[ssejllenrad]

It’s not gibberish, it’s a well-established and perfectly respectable religion.

If we learn about other religions in the correct (humble and respectful) spirit such knowledge can only enhance our own Catholic faith and our practice of it.

I agree

I also agree that Hinduism is a well-established and perfectly respectable religion. It’s older than christianity anyway. Though I know little about it besides Karma and the reincarnation stuff. Also the three main dieties.

What I don’t agree is what dattaswami says. Interpretting Jesus in a Hindu background is something i greatly disagree about. Hinduism is a completely different faith that is independent of the Judeo-Christian beliefs.

I don’t fully understand what you said about learning other religions in the correct spirit that can enhance our own Catholic faith. Does this refer to a pontential refraining to erroneous stereotypes due to lack of knowledge? Please explain…

 

[dattaswami]

I agree

I also agree that Hinduism is a well-established and perfectly respectable religion. It’s older than ch. Please explain…

**
Some fine points of Jesus & Krishna
**

My dearssejllenrad,

The spiritual message of Jesus and Krishna are always one and the same in every aspect. Jesus always preached for the detachment from the blind worldly bonds like bonds with family members. He stated that unless one is prepared to leave parents children, money and even life for His sake, one couldn’t be His dearest disciple. He always preached the eradication of egoism. Whenever a supernatural act was done by Him, He always claimed that it was due to His Father whose glory is to be propagated. He never owned any supernatural act. He always preached that His Father only grants the boons and all the facilities on this earth. Krishna also told the same points in Gita about detachment (Nirmamah…), removal of egoism (Yadahamkaramasritya…) and sanction of boons by God only (Mayaiva Vihitan…). These three aspects are very important steps to achieve the grace of the Lord.

You love your family members and such love gives you some pleasure in your heart. Therefore, your love is only for your self-satisfaction and such love is only selfishness. You are over powered by the emotions of love but you are not analysing by controlling your emotions. If you analyse, you can clearly understand that your love cannot protect either yourself or your family members. Your love is only some loss of your precious nervous energy and valuable time. Except this loss there is no use. By emotion you are becoming weak by losing energy. Why are you doing such foolish thing again and again? There is no benefit out of such act and there is only clear loss.

But if you divert your love towards God, He will protect and develop yourself as well as your family members in this world as well as in the upper world. By spending the same quantum of nervous energy towards God, you are getting all unimaginable benefits forever! How wise is this act! By protecting yourself and your family members, you are proving your love towards yourself and your family members.

This is the true love. The former is only false love, which involves wastage of energy just out of selfishness. Thus, wise scholars overcome emotions and analyse any point with calm and energetic brain. Gita says to apply the brain always to do the analysis and find out the truth before any action (Buddhow Saranam…). Most of the people are not understanding this truth. Especially this is very clear in the case of parents who blindly love their children with the climax of the emotion spending their maximum precious nervous energy, which is simply wasted without any use for themselves or for their children. I find, some times, some parents or elders are talking with just born babies! They talk so many sentences and they no very well that the baby cannot understand even a single word! They waste their nervous and oral energy for such a long time and they feel very great about such foolish act! Therefore, try to understand my point without any excitation and try to implement my advise. You can experiment my advise just for a month and then see the tremendous change in your circumstances.

The next item is eradication of egoism. Whenever you are doing some appreciable act, immediately you disown yourself from such act. You surrender all the credit to the Lord even before somebody praises about it. If some body is praising you for such act, you pass on the ownership to the Lord at once. Otherwise, the wine of egoism will enter your brain and your are intoxicated with the egoism. You are transformed in to a demon shortly. Some people disown the praise externally but accept the praise in their minds. This is just like drinking the wine negating it orally. In such case also the intoxication of egoism is inevitable. You are thinking that you are the owner or the master of your family.

 

[dattaswami]

You feel your self as the king or the ruler and you think that your family is your kingdom. This is the climax of foolishness and ignorance. You cannot even rule the organs of your body like heart, kidneys, lungs etc. Even your body is under the control of the Lord only. How can you control other human beings? Therefore, you quit your post of headship of your family. From now onwards you recognise that the Lord is the head of your family. From this moment onwards you feel that you are just a member of your family like any other family member. You belong to the category of “Ruled” and you are not at all the ruler. Now your family and your body are under the control of the divine master.

If anything happens to your body or to your family, do not get disturbed because the rectification is responsibility of the Lord who is the owner of your body and the family. The owner only has to worry about any disturbance. You are not responsible for either the disturbance or its rectification. Let any problem arise, you keep calm and peaceful. Even if you disturbed and feel responsible, you can not do anything. Suppose you are responding to the problem and try for its rectification, even then, you feel that you are acting as instrument or a servant of God to do that work. You must feel that you are assigned to solve that problem by the order of the Lord. When the problem is solved you must pass on the entire credit to the Lord only. As I told you, you can experiment my advise for a month and see the excellent works of the Lord.

You must always feel that the final granting authority is only the Lord. Except the Lord no body or nothing or no force is responsible to accomplish anything every body and every thing acts according to His wish. The Lord is not seen by you. Therefore, you think that somebody is kind enough to help you. The person who helped you is forced by the Lord to help you. That person is just carrying on the order of the Lord. Even if you scold him, he will not stop helping you. Even if you praise him, he will not help you if there is no sanction from the Lord. A messenger is bringing a signed cheque from the Lord. The Lord is in the house and you are not seeing Him.

You have seen the messenger and the cheque in his hand. You are thinking that the messenger is very kind in helping you. You are praising the messenger. The cheque is handed over in the Bank. The staff are arranging for the payment of the cheque to you. You are praising the staff thinking that they are very kind to help you. It is the duty of the staff to arrange for encashment of the cheque. They will loose their jobs if they are not doing their duties. They are working for the fear of their jobs only. Therefore, you must recognise that the God is the signatory and that He is the account holder. You must understand that the Lord is paying His cash to you.

 

[dattaswami]

You must analyse the root cause. The root cause is the cheque. The cheque is valid only when it is signed by the account holder. Therefore, you must recognise the force that makes the root cause valid the sanctioning the boons to you. By such deep analyse only to find the Lord as the cause of the cause. Then only you will become grateful to the Lord. And express your gratitude to the correct person who is the Lord alone. Whenever any favour was granted Jesus used to praise the Lord immediately and expressed His gratitude to the Lord. You must thank the Lord for whatever is given to you already. If you are not satisfied with the existing facilities, you will never be satisfied even if the Lord grants any number of more facilities.

If you already satisfied and feel contented with whatever is given already, the Lord is further pleased to grant further facilities. Therefore, to achieve the grace of the Lord, the contentment with the existing circumstances is essential. Therefore, be always satisfied and be always cheerful with whatever you have already. This is the basis for achieving the grace from the Lord in more quantity in the future. You must always express the gratefulness to the Lord for whatever is already granted to you. You should not ask for anything more. When thousands of people came to see Jesus, He was having just four breads in a basket. He did not ask the Lord for more breads. He raised the basket with His hands and praised the Lord for giving those four breads. Immediately the four breads were multiplied to thousands. Gita also says about the necessity of self-satisfaction with the existing things (Nityatrupto…). He will be rained with infinite grace of the Lord if you follow my advise. Again I suggest that you experiment this for a month and then practice in your life.

All this preaching is only the practical philosophy, which requires firm faith in the preacher. The preacher should be the correct the person. Only the Lord in human form can be such a correct preacher. If you believe a false preacher or an ignorant person as the true preacher, results cannot be seen. If you approach the real water and believe it as the water really, you can put your finger in it and feel the coldness, which is the correct result. If you put your finger in fire, you cannot feel the coldness because it is not water. Similarly the false preacher gives negative results. If you put your finger in air, which is neither water nor fire, your finger neither feels the coldness nor is burnt.

Similarly an ignorant person acting as a true preacher can give neither correct result nor the negative result. You will be wasting your time energy with such an ignorant preacher. Therefore, catching the right guide (Satguru) is fundamental step. If you mistake the true guide as some ordinary guy, only you are loosing. Veda says “Ihachet Avedet…) which means that if you miss the correct preacher in this world in this birth, you are a permanent looser. All those ignorant people who did not recognise Jesus and crucified Him were permanent losers. Similarly, all the ignorant people who cannot recognise Lord Krishna are loosing the spiritual treasure forever.

At Thy Lotus Feet His Holiness Sri Dattaswami
Anil Antony

www.universal-spirituality.org

Universal Spirituality for World Peace antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

 

[corvidae]

Dattaswami,
WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND KRISHNA WERE THE SAME PERSON.

You must prove that to us before we continue.
P.s.- Jesus said nothing of rejecting emotion, one of the lines in the Bible is “Jesus wept”

A lone Raven