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Shin
Guest
If you can… to get the TLM, it’s worth it. I have often thought I should like to move near to two of them at the least, to be well covered.
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floresco
Guest
I regret that I described this priest as “exceeding his authority”. As I understand it, he has not forbidden you to receive while kneeling. It is just that you are aware of his disapproval. It was unfair of me to blame him for wanting you to follow the norm set out in GIRM (although whether it should be there is another question.)
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Catholic87
Guest
All you need is the consent of a priest so that he can perform a TLM Mass. Thanks to Pope Benedict we don’t need a bishop to approve. : )
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Momofmyangels
Guest
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Cristiano
Guest
Charity toward a priest is very important, but I would not never say that kneeling is wrong. Maybe talking to him and sharing your thoughts would be a good starting point to be charitable toward him, communication is essential in relationships.
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Momofmyangels
Guest
I agree…Charity and obedience have been forefront in our minds.
My husband had tried to talk to him and he brushes the issue aside and does not wish to discuss it.
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damooster
Guest
Two answers for you Momofmyangels:
- Now that you know the norm, yes, I think it would be improper for you to kneel according to the General Instruction of the Roman Missal.
- Technically speaking, the priest is supposed to counsel you on the norm for reception of Holy Communion outside of Mass. If he has not done so yet, he can’t really expect you to know the norm. Priests are responsible for the spiritual needs of their parishioners, and this falls in to that category.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to get so technical there. I recommend what others have recommended, and that’s to try and talk to him again. If he’s not receptive, and he’s the pastor, take it up the chain of command. This is a fight worth fighting, even if the GIRM states otherwise. I have no idea why the USCCB decided to make standing the norm, but it needs to be questioned.
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Shin
Guest
Since kneeling is a long standing and venerable custom, and customs are explicitly allowed to continue, it certainly isn’t wrong to kneel despite this ‘norm’. 
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Cristiano
Guest
If he does not want to talk about it he does not have to. However, at that point he must respect your right. If he is mad about it and he does not want to address the pastoral aspect, then it is his personal problem not yours and not the Church’s problem either.
You can still be charitable and receive communion while standing. It could be a good example of meekness for your children.
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Momofmyangels
Guest
Yes, damooster I agree with what you have said above. God knows I wish to receive Him as reverently as possible, but I cannot reconcile with the fact that I am angering a priest by doing so…so I stand and have my children also. My husband on the other hand kneels.
If someone were in my shoes, I would probably advise to take it up the chain of command also, because I truly feel we should be able to kneel for Our Lord, but it is not me, I cannot create waves, I would probably die just thinking about it! I thank you all so much for your help and will continue to pray for the TLM here or start looking into relocating.
One last thing though, I read that the pope is in favor of receiving Holy Communion kneeling and on the tongue. If this is true, why are we not welcome to do so?
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damooster
Guest
Not only is Pope Benedict in favor of it, that’s the only way he’ll distribute Holy Communion now!
So, your question is a difficult one to answer. As I’m sure you’re aware, we Catholics in the United States fall under the jurisdiction of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB). They received permission to change the norm to standing for the OF Mass, so we have to go along with it.
If I were you, I’d watch a short clip of Cardinal Arinze on the subject. I’d post the YouTube link for you, but I’m at work and that site is blocked. But just do a search for Cardinal Arinze and you should see the video. It will explain things better than I can.
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Momofmyangels
Guest
Thanks damooster. I watched the video and Cardinal Arinze does in fact explain it quite well. He said pretty much what you have stated AND that those who wish to kneel for Communion should be able to do so in peace! It was good to hear that. However it doesn’t change my situation. I guess I just have to rely on the fact that God knows we are trying to do the best we can until a better scenerio arises for us. Thanks again, damooster.
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damooster
Guest
I’m glad I could be of some assistance. I feel so awful for your situation, and it’s even more saddening to know that you are not the only person/family going through this!
I don’t know if this last bit of advice can help, but here’s how I deal with it: I do not think we will be punished for being obedient. If we are being led astray, the persons doing it will have to answer for their actions. But as long as we remain faithful, no matter how difficult it is i.e standing for Holy Communion, we will be judged accordingly.
I don’t know if that helps you, but it works for me. Every time I see an abuse, I recognize that it’s not my place to question it but rather the clergy that is present. And I think the clergy deserves that as well; they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
I’ll get off my soap box now. Please know that I will continue to pray for you and your family.
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floresco
Guest
Saying that something is a norm does not make it an obligation. It means that other options are allowed but that this one is preferred. The priest is supposed to explain why the American bishops preferred this and he has not done this. (Perhaps because it is beyond him to explain why the bishops want something other than what the Pope does.) It is not improper at all for her to kneel.
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floresco
Guest
Obedience is not an issue in this case. It is a norm but not an obligation. People are allowed to kneel. Therefore kneeling is not disobeying. It makes sense to submit oneself to an obligation imposed by the Church but that is not the case here. We have the US bishops expressing one preference and the Pope expressing another, but both are allowed. I know which I would choose in that situation.
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Momofmyangels
Guest
This is so very confusing, and quite honestly beyond my comprehension. Here we have THE POPE saying he prefers Communion to be received kneeling and on the tongue and as damooster stated that is the only way he will distribute it now…and Cardinal Arinze saying yes, the GIRM says the norm is standing, but those who wish to receive kneeling should be able to do so in peace. If the pope’s preference is such, then why oh why is there such misery inflicted on those who wish to kneel???
I am an RN and worked in the operating room for many years with the same Dr. (I was his OR assistant) and if he came to me and said the textbook states to do a certain procedure one way, but I prefer you to do this way, you can bet I will follow my Dr.'s preference. He went to school a lot longer than I and knows “a bit” more that I. I certainly might question it, or not agree with it, but can I really not follow his instruction? Bad analogy, maybe, I’m just trying to know what the right thing to do is and I can’t seem to grasp what that is yet.
I feel I should kneel and I also feel I should not aggravate my priest! My aunt, who also attends the same Mass no longer receives Holy Communion when he says Mass because she is so intimidated by him. Very, very sad.
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Shin
Guest
It’s been this way for decades for the devout and traditional in so many time honored practices… it’s the current persecution and cross we have to bear for Christ. When I think of the untold and unacknowledged agony and grief that has been caused… I pray that the many tears shed will shine in Heaven and find an answer.
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Momofmyangels
Guest
Perfectly said, thank you.
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rwoehmke
Guest
One of the reasons we have the girm and missals is so that our act of worship goes smoothly with no surprises like “What do I do now.” It leaves us free to worship Our Lord without trying to figure out as we go along what comes next. That is why abuses are so bad, because they disrupt the flow of our Mass by throwing in stuff that dos not fit. When a family or individual decides to not follow the norm with everyone else it becomes an event, that while certainly not an abuse in this case, that throws everyone else off their stride. It is at minimum a distraction to almost every one of ones fellow worshipers.
I would commend anyone who home schools and provides a good Catholic education for their children. Such an education is virtually unavailable anywhere else. Hence the urgent need in the Western World to re-evangelize even those who call and believe themselves to be good solid practicing Catholics.
I would commend anyone who home schools and provides a good Catholic education for their children. Such an education is virtually unavailable anywhere else. Hence the urgent need in the Western World to re-evangelize even those who call and believe themselves to be good solid practicing Catholics.
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kozlosap
Guest
One of the reasons we have the girm and missals is so that our act of worship goes smoothly with no surprises like “What do I do now.” It leaves us free to worship Our Lord without trying to figure out as we go along what comes next. That is why abuses are so bad, because they disrupt the flow of our Mass by throwing in stuff that dos not fit. When a family or individual decides to not follow the norm with everyone else it becomes an event, that while certainly not an abuse in this case, that throws everyone else off their stride. It is at minimum a distraction to almost every one of ones fellow worshipers.
I would commend anyone who home schools and provides a good Catholic education for their children. Such an education is virtually unavailable anywhere else. Hence the urgent need in the Western World to re-evangelize even those who call and believe themselves to be good solid practicing Catholics.
Do you really believe that only home schooled children are taught the Faith in the proper manner and that the rest of the millions of children in the world are not being taught in CCD classes or Catholic Schools the proper catechism of the Church? I’m sure many parents (including those who participate on this forum) will be very surprised to read that. If a CCD teacher, whether it be parent or lay person teaching a group, is using one of the approved curriculum series that is available and takes it seriously, then how can it be wrong? I’m thinking of how Mel Gibson was obviously taught the Faith by a person (his father) who did not follow the approved CCC and what has happened to him in his middle aged years. I realize that using Mel Gibson as an example is trite, but better than making someone up. Your “problem” with the Western World is enlightening. Yes, the “Western World” is more educated and hence questions everything, but that surely doesn’t mean that this whole segment of the world’s population is less faithful. Having a fully formed conscience takes years of work and prayer.
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