Concern for children's souls

[rwoehmke]

Do you really believe that only home schooled children are taught the Faith in the proper manner and that the rest of the millions of children in the world are not being taught in CCD classes or Catholic Schools the proper catechism of the Church? I’m sure many parents (including those who participate on this forum) will be very surprised to read that. If a CCD teacher, whether it be parent or lay person teaching a group, is using one of the approved curriculum series that is available and takes it seriously, then how can it be wrong? I’m thinking of how Mel Gibson was obviously taught the Faith by a person (his father) who did not follow the approved CCC and what has happened to him in his middle aged years. I realize that using Mel Gibson as an example is trite, but better than making someone up. Your “problem” with the Western World is enlightening. Yes, the “Western World” is more educated and hence questions everything, but that surely doesn’t mean that this whole segment of the world’s population is less faithful. Having a fully formed conscience takes years of work and prayer.

Just take a look at those who attend Mass each Sunday. If they have been through a decent RCIA process and have joined the Church, they usually know more about their Faith than a large number of cradle Catholics, many of whom have forgotten why we go to Mass each week. Many are tolerant of Pro-choice, contraception, gay marriage among other questionable positions on Catholic teaching. There is also a majority of Baptized Catholics who no longer bother to attend except perhaps at Christmas and Easter if they have not completely abandoned their Church. More educated does not in any way mean educated in their Catholic Faith.

 

[kozlosap]

Do you really believe that only home schooled children are taught the Faith in the proper manner and that the rest of the millions of children in the world are not being taught in CCD classes or Catholic Schools the proper catechism of the Church? I’m sure many parents (including those who participate on this forum) will be very surprised to read that. If a CCD teacher, whether it be parent or lay person teaching a group, is using one of the approved curriculum series that is available and takes it seriously, then how can it be wrong? I’m thinking of how Mel Gibson was obviously taught the Faith by a person (his father) who did not follow the approved CCC and what has happened to him in his middle aged years. I realize that using Mel Gibson as an example is trite, but better than making someone up. Your “problem” with the Western World is enlightening. Yes, the “Western World” is more educated and hence questions everything, but that surely doesn’t mean that this whole segment of the world’s population is less faithful. Having a fully formed conscience takes years of work and prayer.

Just take a look at those who attend Mass each Sunday. If they have been through a decent RCIA process and have joined the Church, they usually know more about their Faith than a large number of cradle Catholics, many of whom have forgotten why we go to Mass each week. Many are tolerant of Pro-choice, contraception, gay marriage among other questionable positions on Catholic teaching. There is also a majority of Baptized Catholics who no longer bother to attend except perhaps at Christmas and Easter if they have not completely abandoned their Church. More educated does not in any way mean educated in their Catholic Faith.

I was asking about children of Catholics who care enough to either send them to Catholic School or to CCD every week until they are confirmed. I would dare to say if a person was a cradle Catholic and was thinking about returning to the Church, he would be very discouraged if he started his new journey by reading some of the threads in this forum. Instead of joining a parish and meeting and living day to day with the faithful, he would learn that he/she is only a good Catholic if they only attend the TLM and wear modest clothes from circa 1915. My everyday parish life is so totally different than what is posted on CAL that it is almost like being in two different universes at once! The real world is not a bad place - it is our job to try and be missionaries.

 

[floresco]

I feel I should kneel and I also feel I should not aggravate my priest! My aunt, who also attends the same Mass no longer receives Holy Communion when he says Mass because she is so intimidated by him. Very, very sad.

For all you know, the priest is not even upset with you personally. Perhaps he dislikes the direction the Pope has been leading the Church and seeing people kneel reminds him of it. This priest has not explained what he thinks about you kneeling, in spite of the instruction in GIRM and in spite of your husband trying to discuss it with him. You are not obliged to guess what this priest is thinking.

Your husband is the spiritual leader of your family. The one factor that is most strongly associated with children maintaining their faith when they are adults is the religious practice of their father. (This is not just true of Catholics but of any religion.) When you tell your children to stand, you are telling them not to follow the example of their father. And there is no good reason why they should not be doing what their father does. You are risking their souls because you afraid of this priest.

You have said that you can not figure out what the right thing to do is. Is your husband confused? Is he struggling to figure this out? It does not sound like it. In terms of your analogy, he is the person who corresponds to the trusted doctor with whom you have worked for years.

 

[Momofmyangels]

For all you know, the priest is not even upset with you personally. Perhaps he dislikes the direction the Pope has been leading the Church and seeing people kneel reminds him of it. This priest has not explained what he thinks about you kneeling, in spite of the instruction in GIRM and in spite of your husband trying to discuss it with him. You are not obliged to guess what this priest is thinking.

Your husband is the spiritual leader of your family. The one factor that is most strongly associated with children maintaining their faith when they are adults is the religious practice of their father. (This is not just true of Catholics but of any religion.) When you tell your children to stand, you are telling them not to follow the example of their father. And there is no good reason why they should not be doing what their father does. You are risking their souls because you afraid of this priest.

You have said that you can not figure out what the right thing to do is. Is your husband confused? Is he struggling to figure this out? It does not sound like it. In terms of your analogy, he is the person who corresponds to the trusted doctor with whom you have worked for years.

Exactly what I was trying NOT to do. Thanks for this floresco.

 

[ljubim]

You can still be charitable and receive communion while standing. It could be a good example of meekness for your children.

What about humility before Our Lord?

he would learn that he/she is only a good Catholic if they only attend the TLM and wear modest clothes from circa 1915.

Being rude won’t get you anywhere…

Momofmyangels: I am really sorry for the stress this priest has put on your family. I really agree with the poster who said that sometimes the only option is to move.

Is your TLM priest active in the diocese? If he is, he might be able to let you in on which priests are secretly learning the TLM, or seminarians too. A lot of places they’re still keeping this very secret, but perhaps if your family supports some local priest, or seminarian, who is interested in the TLM, then perhaps very soon you might have a TLM locally or even support them in their decision to make the bishop very angry at them and start a TLM (being a traditional diocesan priest is a lonely life, once they take that step they can never go back )

 

[Cristiano]

What about humility before Our Lord?

Are you saying that such an act would not be of humility before the Lord?. She is not considering standing out of arrogance, like some other people would do. Humility and reverence are two different things even if very often they overlap; however, reverential behaviors can still be done out of arrogance.

 

[Momofmyangels]

Is your TLM priest active in the diocese? If he is, he might be able to let you in on which priests are secretly learning the TLM, or seminarians too. A lot of places they’re still keeping this very secret, but perhaps if your family supports some local priest, or seminarian, who is interested in the TLM, then perhaps very soon you might have a TLM locally or even support them in their decision to make the bishop very angry at them and start a TLM (being a traditional diocesan priest is a lonely life, once they take that step they can never go back )

We don’t have a priest who says the TLM in our state. I have searched and searched and have found none. I have however, found areas where there are several options for people who wish to attend the TLM. I often wonder if they would send priests (or even just one) to my state. Now that a priest no longer needs permission from the bishop, does anyone know how (or even if) the priests from the FSSP, SSPX or ICK would consider this? Or should I not even go there???

 

[damooster]

We don’t have a priest who says the TLM in our state. I have searched and searched and have found none. I have however, found areas where there are several options for people who wish to attend the TLM. I often wonder if they would send priests (or even just one) to my state. Now that a priest no longer needs permission from the bishop, does anyone know how (or even if) the priests from the FSSP, SSPX or ICK would consider this? Or should I not even go there???

The search I did for you before included a check of these groups. I did not find any in your state.

Maybe you could contact each of them to see if others have also asked for help?

 

[Momofmyangels]

The search I did for you before included a check of these groups. I did not find any in your state.

Maybe you could contact each of them to see if others have also asked for help?

Would it be wrong to do this?

 

[ljubim]

Would it be wrong to do this?

No you should! It’s not wrong at all, especially if others are interested. I’m sure these orders are used to moving into new dioceses.

Cristiano: Good point I just mean, personally, if I felt that Our Lord wanted me to kneel, or that that’s how I would show full reverence to Him, nobody rolling their eyes would take precedent over this. If it got to be such a huge conflict then personally, I’d find another parish.

 

[Cristiano]

No you should! It’s not wrong at all, especially if others are interested. I’m sure these orders are used to moving into new dioceses.

Cristiano: Good point I just mean, personally, if I felt that Our Lord wanted me to kneel, or that that’s how I would show full reverence to Him, nobody rolling their eyes would take precedent over this. If it got to be such a huge conflict then personally, I’d find another parish.

I made that point because I tend to be a prideful person and somehow I know that from time to time I need to eat humble pie, especially in spiritual and religious matters.