Concerning faith to the general society

[Jim_Baur]

I heard Bishop Braxton’s homily on Friday, October 10, 2014.

He mentioned that is gay marriage continues to gain support, there might be a day when the Catholic Church might not be allowed to witness marriages for the state.

If I heard him correctly, wow!

What else might follow?

 

[JimG]

Yes, that could happen, along with some other things.

Catholic adoption agencies would have to shut down if they do not place children with same sex couples—and they will not do that.

Catholic schools might be required to use textbooks which define marriage in opposition to Catholic doctrine. A continuing disagreement with accrediting authorities might lead to Catholic schools shutting down. Indeed, I think that textbooks will be a big issue in the future. State standards will require the adoption of the secularist viewpoint.

Surrogate mothers who refuse service to same sex couples because they believe children need both moms and dads could be charged with civil rights violations.

Catholic schools would likely be forced to accept children with same sex ‘parents’ on a non-discriminatory basis, thus putting children’s moral formation at risk.

Any business with moral objections to same sex marriage would be at risk of being fined or shut down if they do not provide services to same sex weddings. Examples are photographers, bakers, florists, wedding planners, reception halls (perhaps including Catholic parish reception halls,) bed and breakfast inns, and a number of others.

Foster children, even those being handled by Catholic agencies, would have no protection against being placed with same sex couples.

This list will, I am sure, expand.

 

[Jim_Baur]

There are many reasons that I bring this up: I really believe that God has made us new people and that we can live a good, really good moral life.

How can we proclaim that to the world?

 

[JimG]

There are many reasons that I bring this up: I really believe that God has made us new people and that we can live a good, really good moral life.

How can we proclaim that to the world?

That’s a tall order. But for most of us, I think we proclaim that to the world precisely by living good, moral lives, and not being afraid to proclaim our faith.

 

[Bran_Stark]

Surrogate mothers who refuse service to same sex couples because they believe children need both moms and dads could be charged with civil rights violations.

But isn’t the Church against surrogacy in the first place?

Catholic schools would likely be forced to accept children with same sex ‘parents’ on a non-discriminatory basis, thus putting children’s moral formation at risk.

It seems to me that if there is a choice between the child learning his morals from his same-sex parents alone and the child learning his morals from a combination of his same-sex parents and the Catholic Church, then the latter choice is preferable. At least he will get SOME truth.

 

[JimG]

But isn’t the Church against surrogacy in the first place?

Yes it is, and Catholics should not be using surrogacy. Adoption is always an option. But the law of course, would apply to everyone, and it’s quite possible that someone who does accept surrogacy–a surrogate mother–might not agree to carry a child for a same sex couple. She could be charged with violating the law.

It seems to me that if there is a choice between the child learning his morals from his same-sex parents alone and the child learning his morals from a combination of his same-sex parents and the Catholic Church, then the latter choice is preferable. At least he will get SOME truth.

I understand your point, but I think many Catholic parents would have a problem with it. They are trying to raise children to accept natural moral law; they would prefer not to have to explain to their kindergartener who asks, “Mommy how can Jeff have two mommies? I don’t understand.” They are going to have to explain that no, he really can’t have two mommies; it’s a biological impossibility. Then the parents will likely be civilly sued by the gay parents for making such comments. It opens a can of worms.

 

[janeway529]

I heard Bishop Braxton’s homily on Friday, October 10, 2014.

He mentioned that is gay marriage continues to gain support, there might be a day when the Catholic Church might not be allowed to witness marriages for the state.

If I heard him correctly, wow!

What else might follow?

That actually might be a good thing for the Church in the US. In many countries, civil marriages take place first and then religious marriages.

 

[otjm]

What would happen? There would be a push back. What type of pushback would be decided most likely in a piecemeal fashion. Civil disobedience has worked in the past, but depending on whose button got pushed and in what manner, it is not hard to speculate that some of it would be resolved in violence.

One needs to keep in mind that the Catholic Church is not the only religious group which would be affected. There have been a number of issues in which evangelicals have joined forces with the Catholic Church, and I think it was Proposition 8 in California which found the Catholic Church and the LDS as the forefront of the effort against it.

If the Feds come in and start dictating to some good ol’ boys, one might find “local justice” being liberally applied. I seem to recall a Tea Party in Boston was it? Seemed to get things rolling about government overstepping its bounds. Memories are short…

 

[Joe_Kelley]

The day has arrived:

City threatens to arrest ministers who refuse to perform same-sex weddings

Two Christian ministers who own an Idaho wedding chapel were told they had to either perform same-sex weddings or face jail time and up to a $1,000 fine, according to a lawsuit filed Friday in federal court.
Alliance Defending Freedom is representing Donald and Evelyn Knapp, ordained ministers who own the Hitching Post Wedding Chapel in Coeur d’Alene.
“Right now they are at risk of being prosecuted,” their ADF attorney, Jeremy Tedesco, told me. “The threat of enforcement is more than just credible.”…

 

[CarmelJerome]

What would happen? There would be a push back. What type of pushback would be decided most likely in a piecemeal fashion. Civil disobedience has worked in the past, but depending on whose button got pushed and in what manner, it is not hard to speculate that some of it would be resolved in violence.

One needs to keep in mind that the Catholic Church is not the only religious group which would be affected. There have been a number of issues in which evangelicals have joined forces with the Catholic Church, and I think it was Proposition 8 in California which found the Catholic Church and the LDS as the forefront of the effort against it.

If the Feds come in and start dictating to some good ol’ boys, one might find “local justice” being liberally applied. I seem to recall a Tea Party in Boston was it? Seemed to get things rolling about government overstepping its bounds. Memories are short…

The federal judges have declared that the first, fourth and sixth commandments are nullified by their own power. War against the Church has been declared; the state is warring on its own basic cell, the family. So it wouldn't be 'local justice' but justice itself which was being enforced, the civil authority having explicitly violated it's obligation.

 

[InThePew]

The day has arrived:

City threatens to arrest ministers who refuse to perform same-sex weddings

The difference in Catholicism is that we don’t just marry anyone who comes along. To some extent, that’s already discriminatory but some discrimination is allowed (for example, not letting blind people drive…). Where religion meets the state, there’s always a bit of tension but, by and large, religion is allowed to continue to conduct its own practises provided these aren’t unlawful. When it comes to marriage, the ceremony has to be performed within the Church’s rules which means that many people who are allowed to be married under civil law aren’t allowed to be married in a Catholic church, let alone by a Catholic minister. Again, while this is discriminatory it’s also perfectly justified and so civil law isn’t going to force the Church to marry two same sex partners any more than it’s going to force the Church to marry two non-Catholic persons.