Concerns about bacterial transmission at Mass

[Pasha]

Recently several parishioners and I discussed the possibility of bacterial transmission during reception of communion, as well as during the sign of peace. This topic came up when several us became ill with severe head colds after receiving communion from a priest who had a severe head cold. Several, when they discovered the priest was quite ill, refused to receive. Others, said that the host could not possibly be the vehicle for transmission of disease. Others then shared that they refuse to shake hands during the sign of peace because hands are known to be the source of most contamination that is transmitted. Still another said that she knows of several parishioners who never receive communion because they have repeatedly become ill. Instead, they make fervent spiritual communions and claim that doing so is just as effective as sacramental reception. One quoted St. John Eudes as saying that a fervent spiritual communion is more efficacious than a sacramental one if the latter is received less devotedly. Basically, the question I pose to the forum is as follows: Are there others who have opted for spiritual communion and no hand shaking as a result of these concerns. With the flu season upon us, several of us have been pondering the merits of doing this. I would be most appreciative of anyone sharing his thoughts about this and giving us some substantial and convincing guidance.
Thank you and may God bless you!
Pasha

 

[Deist]

What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.
I love my fellow parishoners, germs and all, it’s the risk you take for human contact. Human contact has been proven to be an actual physical need, which means our creator want’s you to shake the hand of that guy behind you who just had his 2 yr old sneaze in it…Suck it up and deal.

 

[pyropam]

Germs and bacteria could be on the door handle too… does that mean that we shouldn’t even go inside?

The best way to combat germs is to wash your hands. Hand washing will take care of most of the problem. Keep your hands away from your nose, mouth, and eyes.

I’m an RN, and I learned in nursing school that hand washing is the key to staying healthy.

These people also all touched the door handle to enter the church. They also all dipped in the holy water font. They probably shook each others hands, went to the restroom, etc… They probably didn’t wash their hands.

 

[gallo]

Sit on the front row. That way you only have to drink after the priest and a few Extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist instead of the whole congregation.

 

[lak611]

Sit on the front row. That way you only have to drink after the priest and a few Extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist instead of the whole congregation.

I don’t think the OP was talking about the Chalice. The OP was concerned about getting sick from the Hosts.

 

[Cat]

I work in a microbiology lab.

It’s highly unlikely that bacteria or virus would remain viable on a Host. I think that if the virus remained alive so easily on something as hard and non-porous as a Host, we would have all died many years ago, as there would be viruses and bacteria in virulent amounts on every surface that we contact. Humans are actually pretty hardy creatures!

Now if the human in question is severely immuno-compromised (cancer, HIV, COPD, recent surgery especially heart valves, etc.), it might be possible that they get infected via a Host. But I think it’s more likely that they would get infected via aerosal transmission from people coughing and sneezing all around them.

An older lady told me a few years ago that no one will be hurt by the Body and Blood of our Lord. I realize that this is unproven scientifically, but I think there’s wisdom in her words. The Lord surely knew how Eucharist would be distributed in the 21st Century; in His wisdom and love, He would have come up with a different “plan” for receiving His Blood and Body if the method was harmful to His people.

The BIG culprits in infections are 1) hand to hand transmission (and even then, you will become infected not through the hand, but when you rub your EYES with that hand!!) and 2) aerosol transmission.

1. Wear gloves to church if you get sick a lot. I’m serious. I’m 50, and when I was growing up (Protestant), many ladies wore pretty white gloves to church. Many men wore “driving gloves,” usually leather. I think we should return to this practice. I honestly think it would cut back on transmission of colds and other infections.

And of course, as the RN said in an earlier post, WASH YOUR HANDS a lot!

In our diocese, the EMs use a spritz of one of the antibacterial hand rubs before they distribute the Holy Communion. It looks kind of funny to see a bottle of Purel back on the table with the various Communion items! But I appreciate the thoughtfulness behind the practice.

1. Please, please, PLEASE!!!–if you have a cough or excessive sneezing, please be charitable and stay home from Mass. And if you are sitting in front of someone who coughs and hacks, move.

If you are one of these people who seems to have a permanent cough, please go to the doctor and find out why. Please. If you are a smoker, well, then you probably will have a permanent cough until you quit smoking, and it probably won’t hurt anyone.

But the norm for humans is NOT to cough constantly, so please go to the doctor.

There are bacterial infections that people catch, especially during cold weather, that cause a constand racking cough. One of these is caused by Moraxella catarrhalis, a bacteria. The main symptom is a constant racking cough. The only way it can be diagnosed is with a sputum culture, and the only way it can be treated is with antibiotics. The antibiotic provides relief from the infection (including cessation of the cough) within a day. Please go see if this is what you have.

Another common infection is what’s called “walking pneumonia.” It’s caused by Mycoplasma. A lot of teenagers and young people get this, and the reason it’s called walking pneumonia is that you don’t get sick enough to be in bed. Mainly you cough and cough and COUGH! I believe it can be treated with antibiotics.

Another common reason for coughing is a sinus infection, either viral or bacterial. As the “snot” drips down your throat, you cough. If it’s viral, there’s no antibiotic (unfortunately). But while you have this, you are so contagious–please stay away from people, or wear a mask to church.

And finally, many people cough because of allergies, especially in the spring and fall. Thankfully this season is almost gone. These coughs usually aren’t infectious, just frustrating for the allergy sufferer.

The Catechism makes it clear that it is permissible to miss Mass for illness, or taking care of a child. I get upset when I see parents sitting at Mass with a child or children who are constantly coughing. For heaven’s sake, just stay home and have some family prayer time. It’s OK, and you will be doing all the rest of us a kindness.

I hope this has been helpful.

 

[a_priori]

I converted from Eastern Orthodoxy. There, the entire congregation receives Communion (Bread and Wine) from the same spoon. (Including infants)

 

[lak611]

I converted from Eastern Orthodoxy. There, the entire congregation receives Communion (Bread and Wine) from the same spoon. (Including infants)

I have been to Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgy. The same spoon is used for all communicants there too. However the priest does not actually put the spoon in the communicants’ mouths.

 

[a_priori]

I have been to Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgy. The same spoon is used for all communicants there too. However the priest does not actually put the spoon in the communicants’ mouths.

My experience is 12 years in the Antiochian and Greek Archdiocese. I can tell you that, although the concept seems to be to “flick” the Eucharist into the mouth, many people routinely contact it with their lips. The Priest wipes the spoon but there is routine contact between communicants and the spoon. (I can only speak about Antiochians and Greeks.).

The central point is that, from my understanding, there has never been a demonstrated case of transmission via Communion in the Orthodox Church. When I was Orthodox this was a non-issue for me.

 

[lak611]

My experience is 12 years in the Antiochian and Greek Archdiocese. I can tell you that, although the concept seems to be to “flick” the Eucharist into the mouth, many people routinely contact it with their lips. The Priest wipes the spoon but there is routine contact between communicants and the spoon. (I can only speak about Antiochians and Greeks.).

The central point is that, from my understanding, there has never been a demonstrated case of transmission via Communion in the Orthodox Church. When I was Orthodox this was a non-issue for me.

I have never been concerned about getting sick from the Eucharist in the Latin or Eastern Church.

 

[Pasha]

We wish to thank all members who took the time to respond to our inquiry. However, several issues still remain unresolved in our minds.
l. Handwashing is, without a doubt, the best means to prevent transmission of germs. However, when asked, our extraordinary mininsters told us quite frankly that not one does so prior to distribution of communion.
2. Furthermore, when asked if their fingers ever touch the tongues and/or lips of those communicants receiving on the tongue, all said, quite emphatically, “It happens all the time!”
3. Our concerns were not so much with the host, per se, as the vehicle—but with the fingers touching lips, tongues, et al, and transmitting saliva from one communicant to the other.
4. Yes, door knobs, etc. have germs, as one respondent indicated. However, we are not putting door knobs into our mouths!
5. If this were not an issue to be considered, why then did several bishops in the U.S. and Canada, forbid the distribution of communion on the tongue, as well as hand shaking during the sign of peace when SARS was considered an imminent health threat a few years ago? One of our acquaiintances did an internet search and found that several dioceses have rules in place to the effect that during the flu season or other health episode, communion on the tongue as well as handshaking is to be forbidden.
6. Now, if this were not a health concern, why then would the bishops have promulgated these restraints?
7. To the one who replied that he “loves the germs of his fellow parishioners”–we can only respond that such a response verges on the irrational.
Again, thank you to all who responded. Our inquiry was generated by a concern for several who have been quite seriously ill.
Yours in Christ,
Pasha

 

[zografou]

Kyrie Eleison!

Let no one who faithfully believes that The Precious Gifts offered and consecrated -The Holy Eucharist, truly the Immaculate Body and Precious Blood of Christ, partaken for the remission of sins, forgiveness of transgressions, for the cleansing and sanctification of both soul and body, moreover and indeed the communion of the Holy Spirit for life everlasting…even for a moment entertain such a thought! Kyrie Eleison!

My personal experience of 52 years (Greek Orthodox) has been that of receiving The Body and Blood of Christ from one Chalice… one common Cup…one spoon; as has been our long and ancient Tradition. After receiving all wipe their lips on the same cloth held under the Chalice. Furthermore, after the Liturgy we receive Andithoron (a piece of the offered bread not consecrated) with the blessing of the Priest, whose hand is kissed in reverence.

Think of the millions of millions through the ages who have received and partaken of the Holy Mystery thru flu seasons, plagues, epidemics of transmittable diseases… be they tuberculosis, poliomyelitis, bacterial, viral even to this day of HIV
-no transmissions.

“Taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man who hopes/trusteth in Him.” Psalm 34:8

 

[Pasha]

Zogafro wrote:
'Think of the millions of millions through the ages who have received and partaken of the Holy Mystery thru flu seasons, plagues, epidemics of transmittable diseases… be they tuberculosis, poliomyelitis, bacterial, viral even to this day of HIV
-no transmissions. ’

Can you direct us to research data that supports this contention? If so, the issue then is resolved. Or, is this your personal observation?
We addressed this issue to our pastor this morning. His response was that, because he had such a serious head cold and sinus condition, he thought it in the better interests of his parishioners to announce, as he did, prior to Mass that he was ill. He said he did this so that others would not have their health jeopardized. He affirmed that he thought distributing communion could easily be a pathway for the transmission of contagion. He said he noticed that several people did not come forward for communion, and, he said, he respected their choice not to-- considering the circumstances.
Lest anyone entertain the thought that we are committing sacrilege in even allowing this thought to enter our minds, please be aware that all of us have the Eucharist at the very center of our daily lives. We are all devout Catholics. Nevertheless, this issue has been of concern to us. Thus, I posted to this forum and am deeply appreciative of the insights you have afforded us.
In His Love,
Pasha

 

[zografou]

Dear Pasha,

I in no way mean to incriminate nor disparage Western Tradition or question the devotion of any, forgive me if it was so received!

And no, I can cite no scientific research data to support what is not only my personal observation but I would venture to say is held to be…common knowledge, taken and believed as a matter of faith…of Holy Tradition.

I do recall hearing about a certain Priest in Greece, who would go to a sanitorium for tuberculosis patients -in the days before there were effective medications and the patients would either get well or die, but in any event were contagious… A physician there questioned the Priest, not only how he would go among the sick without even a mask; but also, how the Priest could and would finish (partake) what remained of the Eucharist from the same Chalice that “should” have been contaminatedby the sick…
The Priest’s reply was similar to my previous post, such a thing is unimaginable and has never occured. And while it is certain the bacillus was present in the saliva of the sick, the Priest never became ill.

As a pharmacist, I can assure you I am not otherwise willing to accept undocumented, spurious or anecdotal claims and do indeed seek valid, scietifical research and data! But as an Orthodox Christian, I believe this account.

And as a pharmacist, I truly am able to sympathize and understand how it may be that the question would arise, and that to some it would be seen as prudent to take whatever precautions… but, with the same heartbeat and breath, Faith and Trust prevail.

In peace, with love in Christ, -zografou

 

[newbetx]

What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.
I love my fellow parishoners, germs and all, it’s the risk you take for human contact. Human contact has been proven to be an actual physical need, which means our creator want’s you to shake the hand of that guy behind you who just had his 2 yr old sneaze in it…Suck it up and deal.

That’s exactly what I thought when I first read the title! We were told once that due to the fact that it WAS the body and blood of Christ, there was no way to transmit any disease that way…

As for holding or shaking hands… If you don’t wear gloves to open doors, then likely there is little additional exposure to touching someone else. However, I read once that germs live longer on living material (you and me) than on non-living material (door knobs)… that is why, if reasonable to do so, I don’t use my hand to cover my mouth everytime I sneeze or cough.

I have taken to carrying one of those tiny antibacterial bottles with me to Mass. It’s real easy to squirt a little in your hand before the Our Father to make you “cleaner” for the next person.

I’ve never thought of Mass as a place to get sick. There are just too many hours and too many other places and people I see to consider Mass as a “point of entry” for disease.