Concerns about my priest

[quiet52]

It’s easy to jump to conclusions. When I first joined my parish I wasn’t pleased that my pastor was driving a very nice car. But then we got a new pastor … and sometime after that, another new pastor. The same car is being driven by our current pastor. I learned that a car dealer donated several cars to various parishes several years ago. I don’t think any of us should expect our priests to refuse free gifts which help them perform their jobs.

 

[Crumpy]

The only discussion of my previous post was how to mock it, with an appropriate icon.

Having been poor most of my life, I shrug at all the vanity that I see around me. It’s not only priests driving expensive cars, it’s priests wearing shirts with French cuffs and golden cufflinks.

I had one pastor in well-off Chicago suburb, and he seemed to be out of touch with pwople who were financially struggling or downright poor. One of his associates was a Franciscan priest. He broke an ankle, if I’m not mistaken, and he took to riding an electric wheelchair. What we heard of this is that he was racing around and ripped up the carpets in the rectory. I listen to that I shudder at the disregard of the associated expenses.

The priests on EWTN talk about their vow of poverty (not all those priests have taken that vow). Fr. Pacwa, a Jesuit, says he’s been to the Holy Land over 50 times. Now, why would anyone do that, even if they could?

The priests there who live “in poverty” really “get around” if you pay attention. If nothing else, they are quite the jet setters traveling around to Rome and elsewhere, viz. those World Youth Days.

I’m really not trying to judge these priests, I’m just looking at their behavior and the irony of their claims to “poverty.”

I was at another parish in Illinois where the pastor was appealing for more money for the parish. He noted that if the giving wasn’t greater, they might not be able to pay the salary for the associate priest (of $11,000 per year).

We all hear the examples of the occasional priest who embezzles lots of money. There was that one who was using it to buy a lot of luxuires that he had become accustomed to. We hear of the bishops who build these lavish homes for themselves, ostensibly for greeting the various dignitaries that they host.

You notice, though, that the catechism does not cover all areas of Christian moral conduct, such as this (as far as I can tell). I guess that’s always why it is an open question.

And, when we hear that the U.S. church has now paid over $2 B for sex abuse claims, the stewardship of money seems scandalous, no?

 

[Lovemyfaith]

I know a number of people who drive mercedes and they aren’t rich. Instead of worrying about what Fr. drives perhaps you should concentrate on higher things. What does Fr. say in confession? What does he preach? Have you offered to ride with him on a sick call in case he needs some help? Have you ridden along with him when he goes to give Last rites? Have you ridden along with him as he drives that car to the annual diocesan retreat? Do you know what is in his heart?

Where I live you can not get a mercedes for under $30,000 and that is a C-Class stick. Most models are a lot more pricey. I know priests who drive big SUVs because they say the extra room comes in handy for transporting people and objects, but I would say the only reason to own a mercedes is because of its status. I said in an earlier post I don’t begrudge anyone driving the type of car they wish if they have the means to do it, but I would prefer spiritual direction from someone a little less concerned with their status.

 

[puzzleannie]

waded through 3 pages of stuff, found no supported allegations about priest cited in title and OP except he drives (no evidence he owns or purchased) an expensive car. one page wasted on bickering among forum members. Orion gave the best specific info and advice on financial matters and investigating suggested impropriety.

since OP has no further concerns to offer I suggest the thread be closed since it is hovering perilously near detraction and calumny

 

[Chatter163]

since OP has no further concerns to offer I suggest the thread be closed since it is hovering perilously near detraction and calumny

Not to mention needless class warfare. :tsktsk:

 

[westcoast]

Wasn’t the pope photographed wearing some high-end designer brand of shoes, like Gucci or something? I guess if they’re donated or something, it’s okay…

 

[dympnha]

Yes, please close this post because it has turned into something rather nasty.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

If I read the OP’s question correctly, his concern was joining a parish where the priest drives a mercedes. In this forum, I believe it is supposed to be your opinion, with any commentary you feel might be helpful. My opinion is in this case, there is room for concern. Perhaps because of so many poor parishes where I know priests who are sweeping the broken glass and needles from the pavements themselves and have no cleaners nor cooks, or parishes where the priests do without salaries to have the church roof fixed. Perhaps because I now live in a parish that hired a part time cook to cover the hours the full time cook can not be there and the priests have the EMHC make all of the nursing home visits and Communion calls.
Pope John Paul II stated that materialsim hampered the Western world. I don’t believe he owned anything to leave to anyone in his will.

 

[Conciliar]

Is it reasonable to have concern when a parish priest has extravegant possesions? Yes, of course it is. Father may have been the CFO of General Electric in his previous life. He may be an heir to the Rockafeller fortune. It doesn’t matter.

The Decree on the Ministry anf Life of Priests from VII has this to say:

Priests, moreover, are invited to embrace voluntary poverty by which they are more manifestly conformed to Christ and become eager in the sacred ministry. For Christ, though he was rich, became poor on account of us, that by his need we might become rich.(49) And by their example the apostles witnessed that a free gift of God is to be freely given,(50) with the knowledge of how to sustain both abundance and need.(51) A certain common use of goods, similar to the common possession of goods in the history of the primitive Church,(52) furnishes an excellent means of pastoral charity. By living this form of life, priests can laudably reduce to practice that spirit of poverty commended by Christ.

Led by the Spirit of the Lord, who anointed the Savior and sent him to evangelize the poor,(53) priests, therefore, and also bishops, should avoid everything which in any way could turn the poor away. Before the other followers of Christ, let priests set aside every appearance of vanity in their possessions. Let them arrange their homes so that they might not appear unapproachable to anyone, lest anyone, even the most humble, fear to visit them.

emphasis added

 

[Joysong]

While the choice of vehicle may be a concern to the OP, does this warrant his leaving the parish because the priest does not appear to imitate Christ in simple living or follow V-II suggestions? Are there not other criteria that come into play besides this? Should the priest be totally written off as a reprobate of sorts because he is personally scandalizing the OP? What constructive ideas could we who are reading this possibly offer to change the situation?

You guessed it - nothing at all. We are only able to change ourselves and not another. I think this would be a good place to recite the serenity prayer here, especially the line about “the wisdom to know the difference” . . . and reflect that we ourselves live in glass houses.

 

[gradstud35]

If your truly concerned about your priest, why don’t you say some prayers for him, instead of gossiping about his intentions here? These men need our support, not our criticism.

 

[Conciliar]

If your truly concerned about your priest, why don’t you say some prayers for him, instead of gossiping about his intentions here? These men need our support, not our criticism.

How does anyone here know that Mark (the OP) isn’t praying for this priest? His posts couldn’t have been more respctful. He isn’t gossiping.

Mark simply asked a sincere question, and in came the cavalry of high horses; one pious individual even going so far as to suggest that only those who go on pastoral ride alongs are qualified to voice such concerns. And he’s the judgmental one? Give the guy the benefit of an assumption of good will.

Obviously, there is a great deal of wisdom in the Council Fathers exhortation on priestly life. When a priest gives the appearance of “vanity in their possesions” it can detract from the effectiveness of their ministry. No, not because the faithful are petty gossipers, but because it doesn’t outwardly express the nature of Christ to whom they are conformed.

So, the concern is a valid one. What to do about it? While it might be fun to go on a couple of ride alongs, especially if Father bought a 4 series or better, I would say the situation doesn’t call for you to do anything in particular. Don’t allow this to cause you to leave the parish or to get distracted at Mass because you’re on high alert. Give it time.

 

[gradstud35]

He asked for suggestions or advice in his post…my suggestions or advice would be to pray for the priest. Don’t make the worst assumption based on outward appearances. Yes, we all have the tendency to do that (including myself) and it could even be true–which would be all the more reason to pray for him.

You can’t judge the moral intentions of a priest based on the car they are driving. We should be praying for our priests anyway that they stay free of ALL temptations, materialistic and otherwise.

 

[Joysong]

Mark simply asked a sincere question, and in came the cavalry of high horses; one pious individual even going so far as to suggest that only those who go on pastoral ride alongs are qualified to voice such concerns. And he’s the judgmental one? Give the guy the benefit of an assumption of good will.

It seems to me that “good will” would not question this matter whatsoever.

What if someone wrote in saying I’m concerned because my priest is seriously obese. The assumption or concern would be that he is gluttonous, which would also fall under the seven capital vices, just as easily as the tendency to materialism and/or the quest for riches.

To be honest, we just cannot judge another person and assume their failings are not up to our standards of what “holy” looks like. God isn’t finished with any of us yet.

There was a terrible thread or two about the punk priest, who is now my pastor. While his appearance with a small earring may suggest a lot of things to the inquisitive mind, he is very priestly in every way. I wish I could invite his detractors to one of his liturgies! This is why I asked if other criteria are being considered besides this one which seems so offensive to the OP.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

We get the same flack for our pastor, the race car driver. In reality, while he and I don’t always see eye-to-eye on some politics, he is one of the most generous men I know, to a fault, race car or not. He is extremely priestly, and by-the-missal when it comes to Mass most of the time, excepting the constant use of the children’s Eucharistic prayer for even one child.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Has anyone suggested simply talking to the priest and asking him about his car? Perhaps there’s a very innocent explanation, perhaps not. But he would be the one with the answers.

 

[maherite1977]

I’m not sure if any of you have experienced this issue before.

I’m “testing” a parish. A few friends I know go there and wanted me to come to mass with them. Either way, the other day while we were mulling around outside of the church the priest drove up for Mass. He had just purchased a Mercedes-Benz. Does it seem strange a priest would be buying a Mercedes-Benz? I thought they had a limited income and took vows of simple living?

There are a few other things which I have found questionable about him as well, but those are mere speculations so I won’t mention them. I seem to have a gut feeling somethings a little off. I believe I will be returning to my regular church.

Does anyone have any suggestions or advice on the situation. Should I speak to someone about it? I appreciate your help.

Respectfully,
Mark

Some priests happen to be very good with money. I know of a few who have taken their money and put it into investments which have made them quite comfortable. Remember, priests are normal people too - only difference are the vows. If they choose to buy themselves cars, etc., it is their own choice.

 

[Conciliar]

It seems to me that “good will” would not question this matter whatsoever.

With all due respect, Joysong, the Fathers of an Ecumenicl Council saw fit to address this very situation - not from the standpoint of encouraging such good will in the laity as to not find “vanity in possessions” questionable. But rather to encourage priests to avoid it. Why do you think that is?

 

[Conciliar]

Some priests happen to be very good with money. I know of a few who have taken their money and put it into investments which have made them quite comfortable. Remember, priests are normal people too - only difference are the vows. If they choose to buy themselves cars, etc., it is their own choice.

The issue is not where the money came from, it is the manner in which it is used.

Not to nitpik, but the only difference between priest and laity is not the vows, it is their sacramental configuration to Christ. When their outward appearance and lifestyle does not reflect that fact very well, e.g. their pssessions are extravagant, there is enough cause for concern as to have meritted specific mention at VII.

 

[Joysong]

Not to nitpik, but? Of course, I may agree that this is the ideal to many who read the document and expect that is how a priest should look and act. But they are not Christ, and many fail in their efforts to present that image. It is not a sin, but an evangelical counsel. To ascribe it as anything more is to become judgemental, and we are forbidden to do that.

My point, and I seem to have a difficult time relaying it, is that there are other more apparent things that also reflect a less-than-ideal image of Christ. Have you known of Guest House in Michigan for alcoholic priests? Have you seen obesity so obvious that a priest needs a cane to walk? Why is the so-called weakness of a luxury car any different?