Concerns about RCIA director

[PJM]

=BusterMartin;9844581]I hope this is posted in the proper location on these forums. My concern with my RCIA director stems from some things that were done in class. My wife came into the Church two years ago, and I was her sponsor. In those classes, the RCIA director had some serious personal issues which needed attending, so often the class was ran by either our deacon or priest. They did a great job! However, when the normal RICA director was there, I wasn’t too thrilled, but I chalked it up to the situation at hand since the person otherwise seems to have a good reputation at our Church. One area of concern was that the RCIA director told people there were no limits on how many times one could receive Communion in a day, and I corrected this after class (so as not to demean the RCIA director in front of others) and brought up Can 917 and 921. I was told that they no longer applied, and it would not be addressed any further with the class.

In our RCIA class this year, I’m a sponsor for a stranger (prior to the class anyway) and we are only a few weeks in. Already, though, we were just talking about Mary’s perpetual virginity, and the RCIA director mentioned it didn’t matter if we believe it or not since all that matters is that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. Now, I didn’t say anything because I wanted to double check what I thought, but if something is a doctrine, such as Mary’s perpetual virginity, the faithful are obliged to believe it. That’s what I thought, and after researching, that’s what I found to be true. So, at our next upcoming class, do I just let it slide, or do I pull the RCIA director aside and discuss privately, or do I do something else? Suggestions are welcome! My concern is that those coming into the Church are getting faulty information.

BOTH ARE Doctrinal beliefs.

Therfore YOU ought to SOON take this issue directly and personally to your pastor.

Be brief; specific [no personal opinion interjected] and factual.

RELATE and then be quiet and let your pastor carry on the Q & A from that point.

THANK you and DO NOT discuss this with other pariah members. Clamity too is a sin.

 

[JRKH]

…and after you talk personally to the director, and then the priest if not satisfied by you talk with the director, then the Bishop if you are unhappy with the priest, and then a private audience with the Pope, if…

**All kidding aside, what your next step after a discussion is to volunteer and become an RCIA member, we need all the help we can get! **

Action is the big difference between being someone critical of thinkers, and actually being a critical thinker!

I hope some day to be able to do this…

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

It is better to first person individually and present the correct doctrine from a trusted source such as the Catechism. If the person refused to hear your concern and correct it to the class then turn to the pastor for assistance.

This is a wonderful presentation of the instruction in Mt 18:15-18…

Thanks, everyone, for the (name removed by moderator)ut so far. Just as a point of clarification, I wasn’t planning on going to the priest right away. I do believe in addressing things directly with the person involved first. So, yes, if I discuss this further, I’ll be addressing it with the RCIA director directly…if things need to go elsewhere only then will I be able to decide that.

My question, which apparently was not worded the best way possible, was actually, "Is it worth the time to address these types of issues with the RCIA director, or are the issues so superfluous that I should just drop them?" I don’t want to be a nit-picker, so to speak, but I don’t want to turn a blind eye to things I shouldn’t. I have been known to be a bit too detail-oriented by some, and I can agree in some instances, so I just am trying to figure out how big of issues my concerns actually are.

I think it IS worth your time to investigate. There are a number of things that could be going on ranging from simple miscommunication to the person teaching something they should not.
I really don’t think s/he is doing anything maliciously or in “rebellion”.
It’s possible - and I am just speculating - that they have dealt with these sorts of questions before and has a rather poor understanding of how to deal with them…

Many people who come from non-catholic backgrounds are use to the idea that one muse agree with a teaching or else reject it. But in Catholicism there is a middle ground which is basically “Acceptance” of a teaching (that is not understood) based on the belief in the authority of the Church to teach.

Like I say - I’m just speculating…you’d have to talk to the RCIA director to find out what he meant when he said that.

Peace
James

 

[mexolic]

As an R.C.I.A team member, I can’t imagine contradicting church teachings. I have used the catechism in the classroom and emphasized it’s source of Catholic teachings. This a matter that should be brought to the attention of the priest.

 

[Joe_5859]

Thanks, everyone, for the (name removed by moderator)ut so far. Just as a point of clarification, I wasn’t planning on going to the priest right away. I do believe in addressing things directly with the person involved first. So, yes, if I discuss this further, I’ll be addressing it with the RCIA director directly…if things need to go elsewhere only then will I be able to decide that.

My question, which apparently was not worded the best way possible, was actually, “Is it worth the time to address these types of issues with the RCIA director, or are the issues so superfluous that I should just drop them?” I don’t want to be a nit-picker, so to speak, but I don’t want to turn a blind eye to things I shouldn’t. I have been known to be a bit too detail-oriented by some, and I can agree in some instances, so I just am trying to figure out how big of issues my concerns actually are.

Yes, I think it is worth it to address these types of issues. Those going through RCIA are eventually going to be required to profess their faith in all that the Catholic Church teaches and holds to be true. People have a right to know what they are signing up for and agreeing to. We don’t do them any favors by misleading them.

Perhaps it’s just a matter of the RCIA director trying to put people at ease after being presented with particular Catholic doctrines that many people find difficult. You might be able to help the director to pursue such a goal in a way that respects the doctrine rather than dismisses it.

 

[fide]

I hope this is posted in the proper location on these forums. My concern with my RCIA director stems from some things that were done in class. My wife came into the Church two years ago, and I was her sponsor. In those classes, the RCIA director had some serious personal issues which needed attending, so often the class was ran by either our deacon or priest. They did a great job! However, when the normal RICA director was there, I wasn’t too thrilled, but I chalked it up to the situation at hand since the person otherwise seems to have a good reputation at our Church. One area of concern was that the RCIA director told people there were no limits on how many times one could receive Communion in a day, and I corrected this after class (so as not to demean the RCIA director in front of others) and brought up Can 917 and 921. I was told that they no longer applied, and it would not be addressed any further with the class.

In our RCIA class this year, I’m a sponsor for a stranger (prior to the class anyway) and we are only a few weeks in. Already, though, we were just talking about Mary’s perpetual virginity, and the RCIA director mentioned it didn’t matter if we believe it or not since all that matters is that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. Now, I didn’t say anything because I wanted to double check what I thought, but if something is a doctrine, such as Mary’s perpetual virginity, the faithful are obliged to believe it. That’s what I thought, and after researching, that’s what I found to be true. So, at our next upcoming class, do I just let it slide, or do I pull the RCIA director aside and discuss privately, or do I do something else? Suggestions are welcome! My concern is that those coming into the Church are getting faulty information.

Of course go to the Director alone first, privately - but I think the attitude of the Director is crucial. If he is defensive and angry and either refuses to accept the truth or does so in this case but shows no evidence of a willingness to be a humble learner, then I would talk with the pastor about it. If the Director will submit to Truth in this case, being caught, but may not in the future with future errors, then he needs to return to the other side of the podium and be a student more than the Church needs him to be a teacher. The Church does NOT need teachers of falsity or of arrogance.

 

[twopekinguys]

I can’t believe what I’m hearing…but then again…yes I can…who screens people to teach RCIA ? I think if the Rector is too busy,and the Deacon is too busy…then perhaps someone w/ a more solid background in Catholicism…not to demean this poor individual who obviously volunteered for the job…but …I consider myself fairly well read, and sat in on RCIA in my parish and although things were pretty straight forward…I really wonder how people wishing to become Catholic really grasp what it’s all about …talk to the teacher first…PAX

I have been involved in our parish RCIA ministry for almost 20 yrs. 15 of those in running it.

It isn’t easy at all managing a program like this. Getting and keeping volunteers is a major undertaking, and consumes alot of time, and that is only one aspect.

We have 2 permanent deacons, 2 parish priests, 15 catechists, as well as visiting speakers, and various other volunteers, every single year.

Our parish RCIA program is the model for our diocese, and our bishop is very familiar with our program.

With all of that beings said, people make mistakes. Mistakes slip through the cracks. The important thing is to find the crack, and seal it. In this case, talk to the director in a one on one, civil conversation. If that doesn’t work, you go up the chain.

You said you “sat in” on your parish RCIA. Try volunteering, and getting more involved. You will see how human people are, and how mistakes happen.

ETA: I have tried stepping down as director for the last 3 or 4 years, and our parish can’t seem to find a victim, I mean volunteer to fill my spot. You’re welcome to it.

 

[Joannm]

Ask the director to show you documents that prove what he/she is teaching. Don’t be antagonistic, just state that you want to see where it is defined that this is Church teaching and it would be good if you have documentation that shows otherwise.

 

[BusterMartin]

Thanks again to everyone for the suggestions. I’ll be addressing this with the director prior to the next class.

You said you “sat in” on your parish RCIA. Try volunteering, and getting more involved. You will see how human people are, and how mistakes happen.

ETA: I have tried stepping down as director for the last 3 or 4 years, and our parish can’t seem to find a victim, I mean volunteer to fill my spot. You’re welcome to it.

By sitting in, I mean that I’m a sponsor for someone…so I’m present at every class. There isn’t really much else to do as far as volunteering or getting more involved. We have weekly sessions, one retreat, go to Mass together for Holy Days, and that’s about it. We’re a small parish with a small RCIA group almost every year. With our RCIA, you’re either coming into the Church, a sponsor, or the director. There really isn’t anything more to it.

 

[jesuspsr]

If I may, please talk to the director and make sure that you get him to correct himself to the class. I’m in RCIA right now and I would hate to be told one thing, as my faith is forming, that is wrong or goes against church belief. People starting out in RCIA need to have a solid understanding of the faith if we are to have any chance of becoming productive and active members.

 

[Contarini]

your point being ?,this should be ignored or going straight to the pastor.

Point being that your advice is uncharitable and unjust.

You have to go first to the person with whom you have a problem.

The further point was that conservative Catholics have instituted a reign of terror in which anyone who dares to disagree with their particular highly narrow vision of orthodoxy is denounced to higher authorities without even being given a chance to explain themselves.

On this forum, for instance, similar advice has been given with regard to teachers (in schools, CCD programs, RCIA, etc.) who say that parts of the Old Testament are not necessarily to be taken literally–in some cases it seems that Pope Benedict himself would be denounced if he had the bad luck to be a CCD teacher instead of the Pope.

Lay organizations and networks like the one that sponsors this forum have constituted themselves an alternative magisterium. This is a serious threat to the unity of the Church.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Thanks, everyone, for the (name removed by moderator)ut so far. Just as a point of clarification, I wasn’t planning on going to the priest right away. I do believe in addressing things directly with the person involved first. So, yes, if I discuss this further, I’ll be addressing it with the RCIA director directly…if things need to go elsewhere only then will I be able to decide that.

My question, which apparently was not worded the best way possible, was actually, “Is it worth the time to address these types of issues with the RCIA director, or are the issues so superfluous that I should just drop them?” I don’t want to be a nit-picker, so to speak, but I don’t want to turn a blind eye to things I shouldn’t. I have been known to be a bit too detail-oriented by some, and I can agree in some instances, so I just am trying to figure out how big of issues my concerns actually are.

Admittedly, I’m not in full communion yet myself, but it seems to me that the first of these issues is a bit nit-picking. Someone said it’s doctrinal, but I don’t see this–it seems to be a question of discipline (though all matters of discipline are related to doctrine). I think you’re right and the RCIA director is wrong, but I wouldn’t think this would be worth making a big deal about.

The second one is a misrepresentation of Catholic doctrine to make it more palatable to non-Catholics. The RCIA director is not doing anyone any favors by this approach.

I would suggest taking a line something like this: “I really want to understand Catholic doctrine so that I know what I’m expected to believe when I come unto full union with the Church. What you said about the perpetual virginity not being required doesn’t match a lot of what I’ve read. Can you give me a source where I could read more about this? Can I perhaps talk to Fr. [name of parish priest] to get a better understanding?”

I myself am rather confused about just what must be believed in terms of the “virginitas in partu”–the “post partum” is clearer and less of a problem for me.

Edwin

 

[MSSheBear]

As a former “processee” in RCIA I would like to put my two cents in here: For some reason people running RCIA programs seem to me to be a bit liberal. My usual reaction is to ignore it. What I have observed is that others will politely bring up what is Church teaching. One time we processees informed a leader that the priest had stated that missing Sunday Mass without a valid reason was a mortal sin. We had to repeat it twice.

Later another leader informed us it was a matter of conscience. But we already knew better! So unless the errors are glaring I would just ignore it.

 

[Contarini]

As a former “processee” in RCIA I would like to put my two cents in here: For some reason people running RCIA programs seem to me to be a bit liberal.

I just assumed that they reflected the parish/diocese. The first two RCIA programs I was part of were in the Diocese of Raleigh in the 90s (one at the Newman Center at Duke, the other at a local Franciscan parish with a reputation for being one of the most liberal parishes in a fairly liberal diocese).

The one I’ve been attending (though I missed last Wednesday) is very orthodox–the leaders basically summarize what the Catechism has to say. I find it refreshing.

Edwin

 

[MSSheBear]

I just assumed that they reflected the parish/diocese. The first two RCIA programs I was part of were in the Diocese of Raleigh in the 90s (one at the Newman Center at Duke, the other at a local Franciscan parish with a reputation for being one of the most liberal parishes in a fairly liberal diocese).

The one I’ve been attending (though I missed last Wednesday) is very orthodox–the leaders basically summarize what the Catechism has to say. I find it refreshing.

Edwin

I only went to one RCIA but here the priest is “orthodox” while the RCIA team is “liberal.” The priest is no fool so he probably knows. But from all the threads I’ve read on CAF it appears to be the RCIA people are usually liberal Catholics. Of course we converts need to be exposed to the liberal ones as well as the more traditional ones.

 

[twopekinguys]

Our process is very orthodox.

As I have said before, ours is the model for our diocese, and more and more parishes are following a more orthodox approach.