Concupisense

[gracelife]

Why is concupisense not sin?

 

[Della]

Concupiscence is the inclination to sin not sin itself. Just because I might be inclined to sin doesn’t mean that I must sin or that I have sinned.

 

[gracelife]

Della, I tend to agree, but Protestants say concupisense is sin. Any ideas why their view differs with the Catholic view?

 

[Della]

Della, I tend to agree, but Protestants say concupisense is sin. Any ideas why their view differs with the Catholic view?

Perhaps they are thinking of Jesus’ words about looking at a woman with lust “has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” What Our Lord meant wasn’t a glance at a pretty girl and feeling attracted, but ogling and dwelling on the idea of having illicit sex with her. Still, our thoughts are not sins, but our actions are. What Jesus was saying is that dwelling on sin and giving oneself over to desiring it leads one to committing sin.

 

[John_Henry]

Why is concupisense not sin?

Because it does not involve the will. A sin is an action. Consequently, something we will. Concupiscence is not a fruit of the will. It is simply a disorder.

 

[rciadan]

Still, our thoughts are not sins

 

[thistle]

 

[Sam88]

Della, I tend to agree, but Protestants say concupisense is sin. Any ideas why their view differs with the Catholic view?

I have never heard a Protestant claim this and it doesn’t really make sense to me. Surely this must be from someone who doesn’t understand the definition of concupiscence.

 

[AELondon]

Having a concupiscent characteristic (strong sexual desire)may not be an offense - so long as it is recognized and not indulged. However, indulging in concupiscent thoughts are positively sinful. Our Lord himself told us this.

I think we need to consider what sin is. Namely, something which separates us from God. Can our thoughts do this? Abosolutely. But not simply our random thoughts and biological urges, but rather, it is the intentional and willing indulgence of those dark thoughts which becomes sinful and separates us from God.

 

[AELondon]

Della, I tend to agree, but Protestants say concupisense is sin. Any ideas why their view differs with the Catholic view?

I suspect that the difference is largely semantic. If they are using the term in lieu of “lust” then they are correct. However, if they are using the term to describe a simple sexual desire, then I think we have a difference of judgement as to what is offensive.

The question I would ask is, “what Protestants say this?” The only thing uniting Protestantism is their protest against the unity of Christ’s church. Protestants can hardly agree about anything, much less the definition of concupiscence.

 

[rciadan]

rciadan;1764668:

The Church does not teach that Concupiscence is a sin.

CCC Etymologically, “concupiscence” can refer to any intense form of human desire. Christian theology has given it a particular meaning: the movement of the sensitive appetite contrary to the operation of the human reason. The apostle St. Paul identifies it with the rebellion of the “flesh” against the “spirit.” Concupiscence stems from the disobedience of the first sin. It unsettles man’s moral faculties and, without being in itself an offense

, inclines man to commit sins.
You need to read more carefully.I did not say it is. I said that to indulge conucpiscence is. An analogy- Poison cannot kill you unless you drink; but, once tasted you must recieve the antidote to survive. A concupiscent thought can do you no harm, unless you savor it. Once you have, you need the antidote, which is the Sacrament of Penance.

 

[thistle]

thistle;1764746:

You need to read more carefully.I did not say it is. I said that to indulge

conucpiscence is. An analogy- Poison cannot kill you unless you drink; but, once tasted you must recieve the antidote to survive. A concupiscent thought can do you no harm, unless you savor it. Once you have, you need the antidote, which is the Sacrament of Penance.

That is not what you said in post #6.
You went on to say thoughts can be sins.

However, in direct response to Della saying “Still, our thoughts are not sins”, you stated “This is not what our Holy Mother the Church teaches.” That is wrong. The Church does not teach our thoughts ARE sins.

 

[Dranu]

rciadan;1764985:

That is not what you said in post #6.
You went on to say thoughts can be sins.

However, in direct response to Della saying “Still, our thoughts are not sins”, you stated “This is not what our Holy Mother the Church teaches.” That is wrong. The Church does not teach our thoughts ARE sins.

This teaching is heresy. I feel it is likely that you probably are saying this out of ignorance though.
Here is what the CCC has to say about it:

CCC 1853 “Sins can be distinguished according to their objects, as can every human act; or according to the commandmensts they violate. They can also be classed according to wether they concern God, neighbor, or oneself; they can be divided into spiritual and carnal sins, or again as sins in thought, word, deed, or omission. The root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornification, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man.” But in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.”

You see concupiscence is the desire to sin, however you only sin when you will yourself to sin, the temptation is not sin, rather the thought, word, deed, or omission is.

Ben

God bless

 

[Dranu]

Ahh, I forgot temptation can be sinful in the act of trying to tempt yourself or someone else, but involuntary temptation is not you in the act of sin.

 

[Della]

thistle;1764746:

You need to read more carefully.I did not say it is. I said that to indulge

conucpiscence is. An analogy- Poison cannot kill you unless you drink; but, once tasted you must recieve the antidote to survive. A concupiscent thought can do you no harm, unless you savor it. Once you have, you need the antidote, which is the Sacrament of Penance.

What I was trying to say is that to have a simple thought is not a sin, but to dwell on a sinful thought is. Sorry for all the confusion–I take full responsibility.

Edit: I see I meant to respond to post #12. Really hitting it on all cylinders today, aren’t I?

 

[rciadan]

Della said “The Church does not teach our thoughts ARE sins.”

I say again and make it plain:

The Church DOES teach that thoughts CAN BE sinful.

That is not the same as saying that every concupiscent thought is sinful. (which is NOT what I am saying).

 

[Della]

I say again and make it plain:

The Church DOES teach that thoughts CAN BE sinful.

That is not the same as saying that every concupiscent thought is sinful. (which is NOT what I am saying).

Good, then let’s call that cleared up. OK?

 

[gracelife]

I have never heard a Protestant claim this and it doesn’t really make sense to me. Surely this must be from someone who doesn’t understand the definition of concupiscence.

From the Augsburg Confession:

Article II: Of Original Sin.
1] Also they teach that since the fall of Adam all men begotten in the natural way are born with sin, that is, without the fear of God, without trust in God, and with 2] concupiscence; and that this disease, or vice of origin, is truly sin, even now condemning and bringing eternal death upon those not born again through Baptism and the Holy Ghost.

 

[Della]

From the Augsburg Confession:

Article II: Of Original Sin.
1] Also they teach that since the fall of Adam all men begotten in the natural way are born with sin, that is, without the fear of God, without trust in God, and with 2] concupiscence; and that this disease, or vice of origin, is truly sin, even now condemning and bringing eternal death upon those not born again through Baptism and the Holy Ghost.

I have to wonder, though, how many Lutherans believe this or live their lives according to this tenet now days–I mean as a regular part of what is expected of them to be good Lutherans. I dare say even most Lutherans ministers wouldn’t agree with this definition. From my experience, they hardly believe there’s such a thing as sin let alone concupiscenece being a sin, as defined here.

 

[tequilamac]

Della, I tend to agree, but Protestants say concupisense is sin. Any ideas why their view differs with the Catholic view?

There are some radical fundamental born again groups who claim that once one is born again one CANNOT sin, no matter what. Therefore if one is suffering from concupiscense, one is sinning against the Holy Spirit. Idea being that the HOly Spirit keeps a person from sinful thoughts, tendencies and desires.