S
smileyscout
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I’m not sure if this is the right sub-forum for this topic but it didn’t seem right to put it in the Ask an Apologist section.
I’ve been listening to some sermons from audiosancto.org. This website has eight years worth of sermons on it from a specific Catholic church. One of these sermons, entitled “Review of Sins Against the 6th and 9th Commandments” contains a condemnation of kissing by unmarried couples from Pope Alexander VII and further clarification from Saint Alphonsus. (This specific section starts around 7:45)
audiosancto.org/auweb/20060730-Review-of-Sins-Against-the-6th-and-9th-Commandments.mp3
I think he is quoting a specific document of Pope Alexander VII
Pope Alexander VII condemned the idea that it is only a venial sin for the unmarried to kiss for the sensual pleasure arriving from the kiss even if there is no danger of further consent of going even farther.
“…condemned. What does that mean? Saint Alphonsus explains. ‘Quote this means that every time someone with sufficient reflection and full consent of the will delights in carnal or sensual pleasure associated with to whom he is not married he commits a mortal sin. This is not only true with kisses but also with respect to other touches performed for carnal pleasure. The reason is that any delight taken in carnal pleasure, that is to say any delight taken in stirring up the appetites which surround the creative power, is a movement towards the martial act.’ Close Quote. The Doctor of Moral Theology of the Universal Church.”
The following is a quote from document I pulled from a very poorly made webpage promoting a Rev. T.G. Morrow so I’m not sure how correct it is.
Achieving Chastity in A Pornographic World
“Some have suggested that kissing should be postponed to marriage to avoid sexual sins. Perhaps most of the kissing being done nowadays should, but there is a presumption here that people are not capable of sharing tender, affectionate kisses. Affection is an excellent language of love and should be shared chastely in courtship. In fact, sharing chaste affection is an important element in preparing for a healthy marriage. When affection is seen as simply an introduction to sexual activity, there will be problems in marriage, because while a woman often needs affection, she does not always need or want sex.”
The priest in the sermon does have a response to whether kissing should be completely prohibited (around 14:10).
“Father are you saying we can’t kiss at all? No, of course not. Unmarried people can kiss. Not necessarily a good idea but they can. They can? Yes. The kisses allowed to unmarried people are just like those kisses you might give to great grandpa or great grandma. A little peck on the cheek kind of thing. That’s it. No passion allowed. Father no one can live like this! Well naturely speaking there may be some truth to that but God never commands the impossible. That’s why he gives us supernatural powers, sanctifying and actual graces. What do we have to do? We have to avoid the near occasions of sin. Say the three Hail Marys every morning and night for Holiness and Purity according to our state in life. Say the Rosary every day. Go to Confession every week or so and make fervent Communion and you can live like this. That’s just what St. Paul is telling us in todays Epistle…”
Two Questions:
Does anyone know what documents this priest is quoting? I, understandable, can’t find anything through Google.
What do you think of this condemnation of kissing? Can it be really be done by a man looking for a wife today? I really don’t want to move to the most conservative Latin Mass community I can find (that isn’t heretical) to find a woman who might want to marry me.
I’ve been listening to some sermons from audiosancto.org. This website has eight years worth of sermons on it from a specific Catholic church. One of these sermons, entitled “Review of Sins Against the 6th and 9th Commandments” contains a condemnation of kissing by unmarried couples from Pope Alexander VII and further clarification from Saint Alphonsus. (This specific section starts around 7:45)
audiosancto.org/auweb/20060730-Review-of-Sins-Against-the-6th-and-9th-Commandments.mp3
I think he is quoting a specific document of Pope Alexander VII
Pope Alexander VII condemned the idea that it is only a venial sin for the unmarried to kiss for the sensual pleasure arriving from the kiss even if there is no danger of further consent of going even farther.
“…condemned. What does that mean? Saint Alphonsus explains. ‘Quote this means that every time someone with sufficient reflection and full consent of the will delights in carnal or sensual pleasure associated with to whom he is not married he commits a mortal sin. This is not only true with kisses but also with respect to other touches performed for carnal pleasure. The reason is that any delight taken in carnal pleasure, that is to say any delight taken in stirring up the appetites which surround the creative power, is a movement towards the martial act.’ Close Quote. The Doctor of Moral Theology of the Universal Church.”
The following is a quote from document I pulled from a very poorly made webpage promoting a Rev. T.G. Morrow so I’m not sure how correct it is.
Achieving Chastity in A Pornographic World
“Some have suggested that kissing should be postponed to marriage to avoid sexual sins. Perhaps most of the kissing being done nowadays should, but there is a presumption here that people are not capable of sharing tender, affectionate kisses. Affection is an excellent language of love and should be shared chastely in courtship. In fact, sharing chaste affection is an important element in preparing for a healthy marriage. When affection is seen as simply an introduction to sexual activity, there will be problems in marriage, because while a woman often needs affection, she does not always need or want sex.”
The priest in the sermon does have a response to whether kissing should be completely prohibited (around 14:10).
“Father are you saying we can’t kiss at all? No, of course not. Unmarried people can kiss. Not necessarily a good idea but they can. They can? Yes. The kisses allowed to unmarried people are just like those kisses you might give to great grandpa or great grandma. A little peck on the cheek kind of thing. That’s it. No passion allowed. Father no one can live like this! Well naturely speaking there may be some truth to that but God never commands the impossible. That’s why he gives us supernatural powers, sanctifying and actual graces. What do we have to do? We have to avoid the near occasions of sin. Say the three Hail Marys every morning and night for Holiness and Purity according to our state in life. Say the Rosary every day. Go to Confession every week or so and make fervent Communion and you can live like this. That’s just what St. Paul is telling us in todays Epistle…”
Two Questions:
Does anyone know what documents this priest is quoting? I, understandable, can’t find anything through Google.
What do you think of this condemnation of kissing? Can it be really be done by a man looking for a wife today? I really don’t want to move to the most conservative Latin Mass community I can find (that isn’t heretical) to find a woman who might want to marry me.
