Condemnation of witchcraft and divination from the NT ONLY

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

I need a defense for the faith against witchraft and divination (such as astrolgy, card and rune reading) that utilizes ONLY the New Testament. The person I am trying to make a point to absolutely rejects the OT and Law of Moses as not applicable to Christians. I am NOT looking for arguments to prove the OT is for Christians, ONLY the arguments against witchcraft and divination from the NT. Thanks.

 

[TOP]

Acts 13:8 But Elymas the magician (for so his name is interpreted) withstood them, seeking to turn away the proconsul from the faith. 9 Then Saul, otherwise Paul, filled with the Holy Ghost, looking upon him, 10 Said: O full of all guile, and of all deceit, child of the devil, enemy of all justice, thou ceasest not to pervert the right ways of the Lord.

Acts 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain girl, having a pythonical spirit, met us, who brought to her masters much gain by divining. 17 This same following Paul and us, cried out, saying: These men are the servants of the most high God, who preach unto you the way of salvation. 18 And this she did many days. But Paul being grieved, turned, and said to the spirit: I command thee, in the name of Jesus Christ, to go out from her.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

I gave these two examples (along with the burning of magic books in Ephesus) and the response was that the ‘magician’ was a trickster, not a witch or diviner but a con man and the python-girl was possessed by a wicked spirit-both instances were condemnation of the persons involved not necessarily legitimate practices.

As far as the OT is concerned she also mentioned that Daniel served the King of Babylon as the Supervisor of Mages, a sort of Merlin, and Joseph interpreted dreams WITH God’s HELP–neither never lost favor with God.

 

[foundthelight]

Ask him if bestiality is a sin. When he says yes ask him where it is mentioned in the New Testament. What is sin in the Old Testament is still sin in the New. As Paul said,

Rom 7:7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

There is moral law and ritual law. Your original question falls under moral law. As such it is still valid.

 

[TOP]

They are choosing the battlefield and rules of engagement.
Bring in the Church. newadvent.org/cathen/15674a.htm

 

[ChangingHeart]

Possibly Revelation 21:8

 

[Fidelis]

They are choosing the battlefield and rules of engagement.

Correct. If your friend doesn’t accept the Old Testament, he has bigger problems than what Christians believe about sorcery.

If he is maintaining this unbiblical stance on the Bible, it is no use discussing anything at all with him. Your first task is to show him that he is wrong about the Old Testament. Otherwise you will be wasting your time discussing issues based on a false premise --which is just plain foolish.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I need a defense for the faith against witchraft and divination (such as astrolgy, card and rune reading) that utilizes ONLY the New Testament. The person I am trying to make a point to absolutely rejects the OT and Law of Moses as not applicable to Christians. I am NOT looking for arguments to prove the OT is for Christians, ONLY the arguments against witchcraft and divination from the NT. Thanks.

• Rev 9:21Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
• Rev 18:23And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
• Rev 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
• Rev 22:15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

[lak611]

Gal 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

I found this when I Googled “mageia in the New Testament” (‘mageia’ being the Greek for ‘magic’):

pages.cthome.net/jbair/realwit.htm

The Greek New Testament and Septuagint on Witchcraft

Witchcraft occurs only once in the King James New Testament and sorcery twice–Galatians 5:20, Revelation 9:21 and 18:23.

The word in the Greek New Testament in all three cases is pharmakeia, derived from the word pharmakon (“drug”), the source of the English word pharmacy and its cognates. The standard koiné Greek-English Lexicon translates the word as “sorcery” or “magic,” but its cognate “sorcerer” (pharmakous) used in Revelation 21:8 and 22:15 is translated “mixer of poisons” as well as “magician.” The root of both words, pharmakon, literally means “poison” or "drug."1

A few key Old Testament passages about witches which are often associated with the puritans such as Exodus 22:18 (“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live”–KJV) use pharmakous in the Septuagint–the word translated sorcerer in Revelation 21:8 and 22:15.2 The Greek New Testament and the Septuagint version of the Hebrew Scriptures use different words such as mageia (“magic”) when other types of occult practices like calling on spirits or using curses are meant. In English such words are usually translated “wizard,” “necromancer,” or some other appropriate word or phrase.2

Because of the Greek word chosen in each case, it appears that the New Testament authors and Septuagint translators understood the idea of witchcraft in terms of the use of drugs or poisons.

Notes

1. William F. Arndt and F. Wilbur Gingrich, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1957), 861, 862.
2. The Revised Standard Version does translate Deuteronomy 18:11 as wizard (the verse division is different in the Septuagint) and Exodus 22:18 as sorceress. This version reflects the gender in the Hebrew. The Hebrew word is the same except for the gender affix. The word in the Greek (whether Septuagint or New Testament) does not make a distinction in gender here, nor does the English King James Version. As far as anyone can tell, the Hebrew word does not have to include drugs in its meaning, but the Septuagint translators appear to have made a connection. R. Laird Harris et al.,Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (Chicago: Moody Press, 1980), I, 458.

Online for more classical Greek, but the same word see Perseus Project Lexicon’s pharmakos.

 

[lak611]

I found this when I Googled “mageia in the New Testament” (‘mageia’ being the Greek for ‘magic’):

pages.cthome.net/jbair/realwit.htm

From Albert Barnes’ commentary:

Gal 5:20 -
Witchcraft - Pretending to witchcraft. The apostle does not vouch for the actual existence of witchcraft; but he says that what was known as such was a proof of the corrupt nature of man, and was one of the fruits of it. No one can doubt it. It was a system of imposture and falsehood throughout; and nothing is a better demonstration of the depravity of the human heart than an extended and systematized attempt to impose on mankind. The word which is used here (φαρμακεία pharmakeia, whence our word “pharmacy,” from φάρμακον pharmakon, a medicine, poison, magic potion) means, properly, the preparing and giving of medicine. Then it means also poisoning, and also magic art, or enchantment; because in savage nations pharmacy or medicine consisted much in magical incantations. Thence it means sorcery or enchantment, and it is so used uniformly in the New Testament. It is used only in Gal_5:20; Rev_9:21; Rev_18:23; Rev_21:8. Some have supposed that it means poisoning here, a crime often practiced; but the more correct interpretation is, to refer it to the black art, or to pretensions to witchcraft, and the numerous delusions which have grown out of it, as a striking illustration of the corrupt and depraved nature of man.

From John Wesley’s Commentary:

Gal 5:20 - Idolatry, witchcraft - That this means witchcraft, strictly speaking, (not poisoning,) appears from its being joined with the worship of devil - gods, and not with murder. This is frequently and solemnly forbidden in the Old Testament. To deny therefore that there is, or ever was, any such thing, is, by plain consequence, to deny the authority both of the Old and New Testament.

Bold emphasis is mine.

 

[lak611]

From Adam Clarke’s Commentary:

Witchcraft - Φαρμακεια, from φαρμακον a drug or poison; because in all spells and enchantments, whether true or false, drugs were employed. As a drug, φαρμακον, might either be the means of removing an evil, or inflicting one, etymologists have derived it from φερον ακος, bringing ease, or φερον αχος, bringing pain. So spells and incantations were used sometimes for the restoration of the health; at others, for the destruction of an enemy. Sometimes, these φαρμακα were used to procure love; at other times, to produce hatred.

From John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible:

witchcraft; any real or pretended league and association with the devil, seeking to converse with familiar spirits, to gain unlawful knowledge, or to do hurt to fellow creatures; which, as it is doing honour to Satan, detracts from the glory of God, and rightly follows idolatry; conjuration, soothsaying, necromancy, and all kind of magic are included and condemned hereby:

 

[Pete_1]

What about when saul contacted a medium in the old testament:

2 1 Paralipomenon 10 Found 2
13 So Saul died for his iniquities, because he transgressed the commandment of the Lord, which he had commanded, and kept it not: and moreover consulted also a witch,

 

[lak611]

From Adam Clarke’s Commentary:

From John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible:

Both of these commentaries were on Gal 5:20.

 

[lak611]

I need a defense for the faith against witchraft and divination (such as astrolgy, card and rune reading) that utilizes ONLY the New Testament. The person I am trying to make a point to absolutely rejects the OT and Law of Moses as not applicable to Christians. I am NOT looking for arguments to prove the OT is for Christians, ONLY the arguments against witchcraft and divination from the NT. Thanks.

I read your other thread about your friend. I am sorry if Gal 5:20 is not helpful, and if your friend does not appreciate the commentaries that I posted from Protestant commentators. When you mentioned that your friend was not interested in the OT and Law of Moses, I was under the impression that she was a Protestant, not a Catholic. I thought the commentaries from Protestants would be helpful. I read your other thread, and at this point, I can offer no other suggestions. I will pray for your friend.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

thanks Laura.