Conditions for Reuniting

[mmarine]

*Hi mmarine;

That’s odd…I have received links to CAF before in my email, but you click on it, and then it takes you to the forum…it’s been a while, I have deactivated that. You can go to profile, then I believe it’s ‘‘options,’’ and then you can disable receiving email notifications from CAF to your email. Hope that helps.

Sorry to interject…but, I thought I’d answer.

On the topic of your thread, I will keep you and your wife in my prayers. *

Whatevergirl,

Thanks for the instructions. I followed them, so I hope it works. Also, thanks for your prayers. I don’t have a lot of hope left for my marriage since my wife sent me divorce papers, but when I asked her if she would reconsider, she did say, “Not right now,” which is better than “no” or “never”.

God Bless

 

[mmarine]

I appreciate your words and beliefs but in all honestly I am comfortable with my idea about the world and not looking to change it. For me to believe in a god would be a lie to myself. I am comfortable with not actually knowing or having confidence in knowing about everything with how the world came to be. It is not an important question for me to answer, neither is there fear of death (other than wanting to continue to live and enjoy life with my family while I can). To be honest (and please don’t take this as an insult) in my study of religion throughout the history of man, there is all common themes that people use to justfy them. A fear of death being a major one, in which we actually live very short lives when taking the worlds age into account. Our lives are simply a blip of time. Another would be a need to explain the happenings of the world. Greek religion is a great example and how the sun arose everday in the east and sunk in the west. They explained it using terms and ideas that they understood. Fire in the back of a chariot with horses drawing it across the sky. When that was discovered to not be the reason, then doubt about other beliefs were introduced and a new theory had to take its place ie a new religion. As we learn more about how the universe functions, less and less is there a need for those beliefs so religion just focuses on things that we do not yet know - the origin of the universe to begin with or life on earth and so you have stories of clay men and women made out of ribs. Another that is less known is our inate sense of justice or simply revenge. When one harms us, we naturally want them to pay. If they do not pay, we are affronted and need some type of comfort that they will pay at some point hence Hades, or hell or karma, or reincarnation. Sorry I went on but I thought I should explain a bit on why the possibility of a god for me would be dishonest.

On a personal note, my definition of god actually has a twist to it. Someone was trying to explain and use the metaphore of god being an atom (don’t remember where she was going with it). I took that to another level. God to me is just energy. Energy is in everything nonliving and living. It is in all matter, and cannot be created nor destroyed simply transformed on a basic level. It is the begining of everything. That would be my definition of god rather than a supreme conscience being who orchestrates everything through his will.

RobnBobA1,

Very philosophical. I will just say that I think atheist have a bigger fear of death than people who believe in God because it is my opinion that they don’t want to acknowledge the possibility of going to hell, which is a very real possibility for me. It would be easier for me to believe that I just die and turn into dust.

For you to say that belief in God would be a lie or dishonesty on your part is saying that you know there is no God, which you can’t know and already admitted when you said you were comfortable not knowing how things came into exsistence. If you claim you know there is no God, you are claiming that there is an absolute, which atheist don’t believe. You are contradicting yourself and that is good because it shows that you need God to give some direction that is absolute, which only He can provide.

God Bless and stop watching so much Oprah. Just messing with you.

 

[RobnBobA1]

RobnBobA1,

Very philosophical. I will just say that I think atheist have a bigger fear of death than people who believe in God because it is my opinion that they don’t want to acknowledge the possibility of going to hell, which is a very real possibility for me. It would be easier for me to believe that I just die and turn into dust.

For you to say that belief in God would be a lie or dishonesty on your part is saying that you know there is no God, which you can’t know and already admitted when you said you were comfortable not knowing how things came into exsistence. If you claim you know there is no God, you are claiming that there is an absolute, which atheist don’t believe. You are contradicting yourself and that is good because it shows that you need God to give some direction that is absolute, which only He can provide.

God Bless and stop watching so much Oprah. Just messing with you.

That is the response that I get from most people or rather believers. For one who believes in god and an afterlife, there IS comfort for them. It is my belief that it takes more “faith” r rather strenght to not have that belief since there is really no comfort in knowing that this is the end, that we only have one shot. Hence also the non-evidental belief that most believers have, that athiests are immoral. I was getting into this conversation the other day with a Christian, that since athiests have no belief in a higher being, therefor we have no belief in absolute morals, hence we simply do what we want. For one, athiests cannot be lumped into one group of individuals. The only common denomination that we have to each other is a lack of belief of a god that most people on the planet believe in. That is it. We can be prochoice and prolife, believe in evolution or some other theory, believe in climate change or not, be republican or democrate, believe in BC or not etc where as opposed to Catholics for example, most can be summed up by the basic teachings of the church. I can say that Catholics believe in X when talking about a subject, because that would be a teaching of the catholic church. While there is a “church of athiests” (which is an oxymoron to me) it is not a church or a belief system like other churches. From my understanding it is simply a group of people that identify themselves as athiests that want community with those that share their lack of belief.

Its kinda hard to explain. For most believers they view athiesm as a “belief” that there is no god, rather than the actual definition that we lack a belief in god. Some cannot see the difference

As for your other statement about the lie to myself equals an absolute knowledge. I believe that dinasours existed. Do I know that they do? No. Is that an absolute? Not at all, since I was not around during that time. Can I believe in something without absolute or claiming that it is absolute? Yes. Can I do the same on the opposite end of the spectrum with a lack of belief in something? Yes. I do not believe that fairies exists…do I know absolutely that they do not? No, Simple because I do not know absolutely that something exists or does not, does not give it validation for me to believe in it. Also inground belief is not something that one can just will themselves to believe in. One day I cannot just decide to believe in god and then poof I have done so, and become an avid church goer where I believe in the stories of the bible. There is a wonderful quote that to me sums it up nicely. “I contend that we are both athiests, I believe in one less god that you do. When you understand why you dismiss all other gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours” The above is not meant to be insulting to any believers, just a sum up of the general explaination that differs between athiests and believers.

I do not need absolutes to lead my life. I cannot tell you the full workings of my car, but I believe that it works, and that when I get into it I have faith that it will start when I turn the key. I can use the evidence around me to predictible determine truth, but it will never be absolute. Do I have a very strong belief that tomorrow I will still be alive? Yes. Is is absolute, no, but it does not need to be for me to believe it and claim to believe it. Same with unbelief. Can I say with confidence that santa clause does not exist? Yes, and I can say it without an absolute knowledge.

Hope that sums it up a little.

HA! I have not watched Oprah in…well ever! Is she an athiest?

 

[mmarine]

That is the response that I get from most people or rather believers. For one who believes in god and an afterlife, there IS comfort for them. It is my belief that it takes more “faith” r rather strenght to not have that belief since there is really no comfort in knowing that this is the end, that we only have one shot. Hence also the non-evidental belief that most believers have, that athiests are immoral. I was getting into this conversation the other day with a Christian, that since athiests have no belief in a higher being, therefor we have no belief in absolute morals, hence we simply do what we want. For one, athiests cannot be lumped into one group of individuals. The only common denomination that we have to each other is a lack of belief of a god that most people on the planet believe in. That is it. We can be prochoice and prolife, believe in evolution or some other theory, believe in climate change or not, be republican or democrate, believe in BC or not etc where as opposed to Catholics for example, most can be summed up by the basic teachings of the church. I can say that Catholics believe in X when talking about a subject, because that would be a teaching of the catholic church. While there is a “church of athiests” (which is an oxymoron to me) it is not a church or a belief system like other churches. From my understanding it is simply a group of people that identify themselves as athiests that want community with those that share their lack of belief.

Its kinda hard to explain. For most believers they view athiesm as a “belief” that there is no god, rather than the actual definition that we lack a belief in god. Some cannot see the difference

As for your other statement about the lie to myself equals an absolute knowledge. I believe that dinasours existed. Do I know that they do? No. Is that an absolute? Not at all, since I was not around during that time. Can I believe in something without absolute or claiming that it is absolute? Yes. Can I do the same on the opposite end of the spectrum with a lack of belief in something? Yes. I do not believe that fairies exists…do I know absolutely that they do not? No, Simple because I do not know absolutely that something exists or does not, does not give it validation for me to believe in it. Also inground belief is not something that one can just will themselves to believe in. One day I cannot just decide to believe in god and then poof I have done so, and become an avid church goer where I believe in the stories of the bible. There is a wonderful quote that to me sums it up nicely. “I contend that we are both athiests, I believe in one less god that you do. When you understand why you dismiss all other gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours” The above is not meant to be insulting to any believers, just a sum up of the general explaination that differs between athiests and believers.

I do not need absolutes to lead my life. I cannot tell you the full workings of my car, but I believe that it works, and that when I get into it I have faith that it will start when I turn the key. I can use the evidence around me to predictible determine truth, but it will never be absolute. Do I have a very strong belief that tomorrow I will still be alive? Yes. Is is absolute, no, but it does not need to be for me to believe it and claim to believe it. Same with unbelief. Can I say with confidence that santa clause does not exist? Yes, and I can say it without an absolute knowledge.

Hope that sums it up a little.

HA! I have not watched Oprah in…well ever! Is she an athiest?

RobnBobA1,

Nicely stated. I respect your logic because at least you acknowledge that you can’t absolutely know that God does not exist. As far as athiest being immoral due to their lack of belief in a God who requires morality, I think it would probably be more often the case among athiest, but I have had a few athiest friends who were basically moral people, so I don’t hold to that stereotype. At the same time, I think those athiest are still searching. I do believe a person who states absolutey that there is no God is probably very immoral and likely even doing great evil. I would put an abortionist in this category of a doer of great evil, whether they are an athiest or believer doing the devil’s work. However, I definitely don’t think it takes courage to face a death that ends your existence altogether;maybe a split second of courage right before you go, but a believer must face the fear of facing eternal suffering forever, therefore, you will never persuade me that athiest are couragous in that sense, but certainly they can display courage in other areas.

My reason for belief is multi-faceted. It comes from logic when I look at the odds of this beautiful world being created by chance, it comes from looking at our intelligence compared to other animals, our desire to understand our purpose here, historical facts of Christ, evidence of miracles, personal experience of what I believe was encounters with God, the utter pathetic lack of purpose in the lives of non-believers, the evidence of punishment that often befalls people who committ evil, the wonderful blessings granted to believers and many other reasons that would take a long time to discuss.

As far as Oprah, I don’t think she is an athiest, I just think she is lost because she seems to say every belief is equally valid, which makes any belief meaningless.

God Bless you whether you want it or belief in it or not, My brave Marine friend.

 

[RobnBobA1]

RobnBobA1,

Nicely stated. I respect your logic because at least you acknowledge that you can’t absolutely know that God does not exist. As far as athiest being immoral due to their lack of belief in a God who requires morality, I think it would probably be more often the case among athiest, but I have had a few athiest friends who were basically moral people, so I don’t hold to that stereotype. At the same time, I think those athiest are still searching. I do believe a person who states absolutey that there is no God is probably very immoral and likely even doing great evil. I would put an abortionist in this category of a doer of great evil, whether they are an athiest or believer doing the devil’s work. However, I definitely don’t think it takes courage to face a death that ends your existence altogether;maybe a split second of courage right before you go, but a believer must face the fear of facing eternal suffering forever, therefore, you will never persuade me that athiest are couragous in that sense, but certainly they can display courage in other areas.

My reason for belief is multi-faceted. It comes from logic when I look at the odds of this beautiful world being created by chance, it comes from looking at our intelligence compared to other animals, our desire to understand our purpose here, historical facts of Christ, evidence of miracles, personal experience of what I believe was encounters with God, the utter pathetic lack of purpose in the lives of non-believers, the evidence of punishment that often befalls people who committ evil, the wonderful blessings granted to believers and many other reasons that would take a long time to discuss.

As far as Oprah, I don’t think she is an athiest, I just think she is lost because she seems to say every belief is equally valid, which makes any belief meaningless.

God Bless you whether you want it or belief in it or not, My brave Marine friend.

I would disagree that they are still looking…some may but most that have admitted that they are athiests have already come to the conclusion that god does not or cannot exist. For those that are still “searching” they would be more comfortable labeling themselves as agnostic, or rather admitting that there may be a god but that they are not committed to believing in a particular god or any theory on god. Interesting fact that I should tell you, is that in America the most hated group is…athiest. They are hated more than Muslims and feared more as well, and considering America’s view on Islam in general that is saying much. Again it goes back to the whole immoral belief.

The stats do not add up that athiests are anywhere close to being immoral. I justify immoral in not necessarily certain behaviors like sex before marriage, as a Catholic would, but by actions committed against another, ie committing a crime against another person. By that standard, athiest are actually the least likely group in America to do so. We mainly live by the “golden rule”. If you look at the stats for people commiting violent crime or a crime that would land then in prison (rather than jail) the incoming offenders who identify themselves as athiest and agnostic is only 0.2%. That is less thn one percent. We average about 12-15% of the population so the numbers should equal that or if the case was true that athiest were more immoral and more likely to harm other people, that number should be much higher. Another stat is that athiests make up the highest percentage (compared to the average population of athiests in society) of those with the highest education and the highest paying jobs…mostly in the scientific and engineering field. The argument is from most believers, is that since we have no objective person telling us what our morals are and punishment for breaking them (hell) then we have no incentive to be good. That to me is simply a sad way to look at things. Human beings that need incentives to not harm another person is a sad state of affairs. Most Christian do not see it that way, but condier that they are good solely because they love Jesus…and that may be true for some, but the threat of eternal torment is always in the background. that is how I view it anyways. Not trying to bash Christian at all here, sorry if it kinda comes out that way.

“My reason for belief is multi-faceted. It comes from logic when I look at the odds of this beautiful world being created by chance,”

What odds? I looked up the numbers a while ago and it was somewhere in 1 and 100,000,000, or some such large number it may have been a billion. Then they calculated simply our galaxy. By those odds, there are most likely 12 more planets in our tiny galaxy of the milky way that has life on it at some stage of development, let alone the millions of other galaxies in the universe. On earth it is hard to image that we are such a tiny insignificant planet in a tiny insignificant solar system let alone be able to comprehend the milkyway or the universe as a whole. The odds are that we are no where close to being the only planet or moon that has life on it.

 

[RobnBobA1]

RobnBobA1,

it comes from looking at our intelligence compared to other animals, our desire to understand our purpose here, historical facts of Christ, evidence of miracles, personal experience of what I believe was encounters with God, the utter pathetic lack of purpose in the lives of non-believers, the evidence of punishment that often befalls people who committ evil, the wonderful blessings granted to believers and many other reasons that would take a long time to discuss.

As far as Oprah, I don’t think she is an athiest, I just think she is lost because she seems to say every belief is equally valid, which makes any belief meaningless.

God Bless you whether you want it or belief in it or not, My brave Marine friend.

I have a habit of writing books when I comment so I thought I would break it up a little

My view on intelliegnce come from my belief of evolution on a large scale…macro evolution. All animals have their strengths that were “honed” during millions of years. Some have speed, some have strength, some are simply huge (elephants) some have cameflauge, some are small and can hide, some climb trees and are limber, some have armor etc. And some have intelligence, such as dolphins and humans. Our intelliegence is our method of outwitting predators…those that were simply a little smarter than others of their kind, bred to pass on those teachings and intelliegence, until we honed it to this point. With that intelliegence we are able to look outside the box, and a need to figure out how the world works, hence religion when we cannot explain it yet.

It used to be considered a miracle if someone pulled out a limp victim from the water, and in the process placed them on their stomachs or chest that pushed the water out of their lungs, thus they lived. Not a miracle any longer since we know how the body works more than the past and understand the mechanisms, hence CPR, coughing (ifyou are chokings etc) or any number of things. We now know that we do not die simply because our heart stops beating or we stop breathing, therefor when someone in the past was “revived” through accident, it was a miracle.

“the utter pathetic lack of purpose in the lives of non-believers,”

I take exception to that statement but I’m sure that it was unintentional. nonbelievers very much do have a purpose in life. For example, my purpose in life is to love and raise a family, to know my roots and shy away from the bad actions of past relatives, to raise my children to be productive members or society so that their children do not have to scrounge to stay alive, to be sucessful and knowledgable so that I and they have the means to meet those accomplishments etc. Human beings are pack animals. We survive using communities. The only way for a community to succeed is to work together using everyones strengths and protecting the weaknesses, that cannot be achieved if one member of the society harms another member of that society, thun losing the effectiveness of that community. Very much like the marine corp. You are only as strong as your weakest member and we strive to uplift that person to make the whole unit stronger. The unit will fail at everything if their is conflict to the point of harm.

“the evidence of punishment that often befalls people who committ evil,”

Or the good that befalls them. Many many times we see bad behavior resulting in good results for those people. we strive to prevent that or to at least punish that through our justice system but oft times life is very good and successful for evil people and bad and harmful to good people.

Many wonderful blessing have befallen me, regardless of my lack of belief, and most times downright denial of gods existence. They befall me not because of my belief but because of my actions. And sometimes bad things befall me and I work through them to end up on top.

You have a wonderful day:thumbsup: ooh rah

 

[mmarine]

I would disagree that they are still looking…some may but most that have admitted that they are athiests have already come to the conclusion that god does not or cannot exist. For those that are still “searching” they would be more comfortable labeling themselves as agnostic, or rather admitting that there may be a god but that they are not committed to believing in a particular god or any theory on god. Interesting fact that I should tell you, is that in America the most hated group is…athiest. They are hated more than Muslims and feared more as well, and considering America’s view on Islam in general that is saying much. Again it goes back to the whole immoral belief.

The stats do not add up that athiests are anywhere close to being immoral. I justify immoral in not necessarily certain behaviors like sex before marriage, as a Catholic would, but by actions committed against another, ie committing a crime against another person. By that standard, athiest are actually the least likely group in America to do so. We mainly live by the “golden rule”. If you look at the stats for people commiting violent crime or a crime that would land then in prison (rather than jail) the incoming offenders who identify themselves as athiest and agnostic is only 0.2%. That is less thn one percent. We average about 12-15% of the population so the numbers should equal that or if the case was true that athiest were more immoral and more likely to harm other people, that number should be much higher. Another stat is that athiests make up the highest percentage (compared to the average population of athiests in society) of those with the highest education and the highest paying jobs…mostly in the scientific and engineering field. The argument is from most believers, is that since we have no objective person telling us what our morals are and punishment for breaking them (hell) then we have no incentive to be good. That to me is simply a sad way to look at things. Human beings that need incentives to not harm another person is a sad state of affairs. Most Christian do not see it that way, but condier that they are good solely because they love Jesus…and that may be true for some, but the threat of eternal torment is always in the background. that is how I view it anyways. Not trying to bash Christian at all here, sorry if it kinda comes out that way.

“My reason for belief is multi-faceted. It comes from logic when I look at the odds of this beautiful world being created by chance,”

What odds? I looked up the numbers a while ago and it was somewhere in 1 and 100,000,000, or some such large number it may have been a billion. Then they calculated simply our galaxy. By those odds, there are most likely 12 more planets in our tiny galaxy of the milky way that has life on it at some stage of development, let alone the millions of other galaxies in the universe. On earth it is hard to image that we are such a tiny insignificant planet in a tiny insignificant solar system let alone be able to comprehend the milkyway or the universe as a whole. The odds are that we are no where close to being the only planet or moon that has life on it.

Your number crunching only makes my point. I never said we were the only life in the universe. God may have created other life on other planets, which makes it even more unlikely our life and the other possible forms of life elsewhere just came into existence by chance interaction of atoms.

Your obviously a committed athiest and I hate typing, so responding to your ascertions is best done in person, which we can not do, so I would just encourage you to be open minded and read some books by inteligent people, mostly sicentist, who argue in favor of a God.

God Bless

 

[mmarine]

I have a habit of writing books when I comment so I thought I would break it up a little

My view on intelliegnce come from my belief of evolution on a large scale…macro evolution. All animals have their strengths that were “honed” during millions of years. Some have speed, some have strength, some are simply huge (elephants) some have cameflauge, some are small and can hide, some climb trees and are limber, some have armor etc. And some have intelligence, such as dolphins and humans. Our intelliegence is our method of outwitting predators…those that were simply a little smarter than others of their kind, bred to pass on those teachings and intelliegence, until we honed it to this point. With that intelliegence we are able to look outside the box, and a need to figure out how the world works, hence religion when we cannot explain it yet.

It used to be considered a miracle if someone pulled out a limp victim from the water, and in the process placed them on their stomachs or chest that pushed the water out of their lungs, thus they lived. Not a miracle any longer since we know how the body works more than the past and understand the mechanisms, hence CPR, coughing (ifyou are chokings etc) or any number of things. We now know that we do not die simply because our heart stops beating or we stop breathing, therefor when someone in the past was “revived” through accident, it was a miracle.

“the utter pathetic lack of purpose in the lives of non-believers,”

I take exception to that statement but I’m sure that it was unintentional. nonbelievers very much do have a purpose in life. For example, my purpose in life is to love and raise a family, to know my roots and shy away from the bad actions of past relatives, to raise my children to be productive members or society so that their children do not have to scrounge to stay alive, to be sucessful and knowledgable so that I and they have the means to meet those accomplishments etc. Human beings are pack animals. We survive using communities. The only way for a community to succeed is to work together using everyones strengths and protecting the weaknesses, that cannot be achieved if one member of the society harms another member of that society, thun losing the effectiveness of that community. Very much like the marine corp. You are only as strong as your weakest member and we strive to uplift that person to make the whole unit stronger. The unit will fail at everything if their is conflict to the point of harm.

“the evidence of punishment that often befalls people who committ evil,”

Or the good that befalls them. Many many times we see bad behavior resulting in good results for those people. we strive to prevent that or to at least punish that through our justice system but oft times life is very good and successful for evil people and bad and harmful to good people.

Many wonderful blessing have befallen me, regardless of my lack of belief, and most times downright denial of gods existence. They befall me not because of my belief but because of my actions. And sometimes bad things befall me and I work through them to end up on top.

You have a wonderful day:thumbsup: ooh rah

 

[mmarine]

I have a habit of writing books when I comment so I thought I would break it up a little

My view on intelliegnce come from my belief of evolution on a large scale…macro evolution. All animals have their strengths that were “honed” during millions of years. Some have speed, some have strength, some are simply huge (elephants) some have cameflauge, some are small and can hide, some climb trees and are limber, some have armor etc. And some have intelligence, such as dolphins and humans. Our intelliegence is our method of outwitting predators…those that were simply a little smarter than others of their kind, bred to pass on those teachings and intelliegence, until we honed it to this point. With that intelliegence we are able to look outside the box, and a need to figure out how the world works, hence religion when we cannot explain it yet.

It used to be considered a miracle if someone pulled out a limp victim from the water, and in the process placed them on their stomachs or chest that pushed the water out of their lungs, thus they lived. Not a miracle any longer since we know how the body works more than the past and understand the mechanisms, hence CPR, coughing (ifyou are chokings etc) or any number of things. We now know that we do not die simply because our heart stops beating or we stop breathing, therefor when someone in the past was “revived” through accident, it was a miracle.

“the utter pathetic lack of purpose in the lives of non-believers,”

I take exception to that statement but I’m sure that it was unintentional. nonbelievers very much do have a purpose in life. For example, my purpose in life is to love and raise a family, to know my roots and shy away from the bad actions of past relatives, to raise my children to be productive members or society so that their children do not have to scrounge to stay alive, to be sucessful and knowledgable so that I and they have the means to meet those accomplishments etc. Human beings are pack animals. We survive using communities. The only way for a community to succeed is to work together using everyones strengths and protecting the weaknesses, that cannot be achieved if one member of the society harms another member of that society, thun losing the effectiveness of that community. Very much like the marine corp. You are only as strong as your weakest member and we strive to uplift that person to make the whole unit stronger. The unit will fail at everything if their is conflict to the point of harm.

“the evidence of punishment that often befalls people who committ evil,”

Or the good that befalls them. Many many times we see bad behavior resulting in good results for those people. we strive to prevent that or to at least punish that through our justice system but oft times life is very good and successful for evil people and bad and harmful to good people.

Many wonderful blessing have befallen me, regardless of my lack of belief, and most times downright denial of gods existence. They befall me not because of my belief but because of my actions. And sometimes bad things befall me and I work through them to end up on top.

You have a wonderful day:thumbsup: ooh rah

A community does not survive better by protecting the weak, they kill their weak, just look at the animal kingdom you just illustrated. Animals kill their weakest link, just like our immoral society is doing with aborition, terminally ill and in some countries(Netherlands), the elderly and suicidal people. You may be right that atheist do less harm against other people and mostly committ actions of immorality against themselves, but I think the exception to that is their willingness to decide the value of life of the unborn, the elderly, handicapp, etc. along with some believers who don’t live their faith and instead do things that suit their needs first, not the needs of others, especially the weak.

Mothers that kill their unborn was just the start. Next it was the terminally ill, now it is the elderly and handicapp in countries like the Netherlands. It will be here soon, this wave of death, and maybe you will defend the weak groups I listed above, which I will do, but most of your fellow atheist and deceived believers will have to acknowledge that the weak hinder and burden society, unless you look at their value as just a beautiful soul that contributes in a less quantifiably way, as God does.

Good luck as this way of thinking gets closer and closer to your doorstep.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to say your life was pathetic. It sounds like you have a lot of good intentions, hopefully you can withstand the coming onslaught of people who will say your protection of the weak is illogical in a society that must survive.

 

[mmarine]

Were you Catholic and a virgin before you married your wife? Not trying to pry but get some insight. If that is the case then you were already steeped in the idea that sex was solely for the purpose of marriage, a concept that she did not share or have a strong belief in. You may have been brought up in that fashion with that concept “drilled” in your head from the catholic church or family. She may not have been, hence why it may have been a bigger issue to try to deal with than it was for her, thus your problem with her other life or sexual partner. You fantisies may have affected her in the same way that her sexual partners before marriage effected you. She would have a need that once you guys were together that your fantasies involved only her, since if they involved other women would lead her to think that she was not attractive enough in your mind, thus maybe causing her to look for men that showed her that they were attracted to her in the physical manner. This is assuming that your fantasies did not involve her but other women, or after you looked at other women. If they involved her alone and only after you saw her picture or talked to her, then it may have led to confusion on why you were not sexually interested in her when she offered, thus a lack of sex appeal in her mind.

It is good that you have come to the realization that you cannot control her trust factor or even her thought process. All you can do is show a level of trust and a willingness to commit if SHE decides to forget the past and begin anew on a new slate…for both of you. You are willing to wipe the slat clean but she needs to be willing to do the same or it will never occur and you will simply be playing a rigged game, constantly trying to atone for past sins with her not willing to do the same. Again…that is solely on HER head now.

Her actions however during OCS in my mind are unexcusable. Like a deployment, constant contact is needed between family and friends. For me anyways. But I was also secure in my families and fiances love, therefor it was not a necessity that I had to have constantly but occassionally. Some needed it more often and some less so than I. I know in bootcamp however, getting those letters from home was a blessing and always welcome because of the stress. Levels of stress coorelate with level of need. My level of stress in Iraq actually was not that high, maybe because I had been training with my guys for so long and we all trusted in each other to protect each others back, and our equiptment/training. When you are in the training process such as OCS or MOS school, the confidence in abilities is not present so confidence from those at home is very important…a confidence that she did not communicate enough during that time of your life, and for that I apologize for her.

Again…hope that you find a piece of mind and heart in your coming days,

Yes, I was a virgin when I got married, but for you to say my wife may have not held the notion that sex is for marriage only, but once we got married could expect sexual devoution from me is illogcial and contradictory again on your part. If sex is not just for marriage than there is no limit for when it is ok, including with someone else during other than your spouse once your married. I just thought I would make that point, which I am sure you will argue against.

Anyways, it is a mute point for me because my wife did belief sex was for marriage only, she just made a mistake and I held it against her and I was wrong. Again, this is why I took the blame for her first physcial affair, but she has continued to make mistakes and that is why I was having trouble trusting her and wanted to put conditions on our reuniting.

 

[royal_archer]

Anyways, it is a mute point for me because my wife did belief sex was for marriage only, she just made a mistake and I held it against her and I was wrong. Again, this is why I took the blame for her first physcial affair, but she has continued to make mistakes and that is why I was having trouble trusting her and wanted to put conditions on our reuniting.

As a Marine I am sure you have the can do attitude and will committ to accomplishing your objective such as saving the marriage. Is taking that hill worth the collateral damage to your self and your kids? Maybe it is time to listen to God and see if he has new orders for you.

 

[mmarine]

As a Marine I am sure you have the can do attitude and will committ to accomplishing your objective such as saving the marriage. Is taking that hill worth the collateral damage to your self and your kids? Maybe it is time to listen to God and see if he has new orders for you.

royal archer,

I am not concerned about myself, but I do want to protect my kids from any potentially immoral behavior on my wife’s part when they are with her, which is why I will insist on full custody of the kids when she divorces me. This will likely make my wife hate me, but I know I am doing for the right reason, now. The bottom line is, the door is always open for her to return home to me and the kids. She has chosen to leave for now and she will have to live with the consequences of initiating a divorce with a husband who was willing to let her come back with no conditions for the sake of the kids.

Just pray for God to give me the wisdom to make the right decisions to protect my kids and I will be alright. If I had no kids, I would let my wife treat me like garbage for a while in order to prove my love for her. I know that sounds stupid, but there would still come a point when I would say, “Well, I tried. Now go your own way now and may God see fit to remove the devil from within you.” Once it got to that point, my wife would either destroy herself in immorality or she would come back to me and live as God wants her to live. I am sure of that because I know God will protect me from any harm she wants to do to me and bless me for honoring my marriage by staying single and chaste. What He will do with her, I do not know for sure, but I would not want to be in her shoes if she chooses to live immorally.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

My wife has moved out. If she decides she wants to come back I feel I must require she meet certain conditions like :wearing her ring in public; making a verbal promise not to flirt with men, especially ones who have propositioned her at work; moving out of an apartment she sometimes stays in with a female co-worker when she works late, since her friend has a live-in boyfriend; put me back on her bank account as a joint holder; stop taking dance lessons with my son that include dancing with other men; introduce me to the man at work she had a three-week flirtacious exchange with or quit her job so she is not around him anymore.

You should know that besides the most recent flirtacious affair, my wife had an actual physcial affair first about 6 years ago. She told me about the affair and then went back to him again before she ended it, but then started a flirtacious affair with another man for a few weeks and then ended that and started a career in law enforcement. Then, within one year of being on the job, admitted to another flirtacious affair of three weeks that I mentioned above. This latest verbal affair was about four year ago, but she only told me about it about one year ago because she thought I was going to find out due to an investigation at her work regarding a related matter.

Do these conditions seem unreasonable or immoral, especially given my wife’s aforementioned history? If my wife does not agree to them and we stay seperated at my insistance, am I sinning since I will not reunite until she agrees to the conditions?

I think you’re wasting your time to be honest. I don’t think she’ll come back.

You’re right about insisting on certain conditions, but unfortunately (I’m probably being too blunt) I think your marriage is over.

I think you need to move on, hard as that will be.

 

[royal_archer]

royal archer,

I am not concerned about myself, but I do want to protect my kids from any potentially immoral behavior on my wife’s part when they are with her, which is why I will insist on full custody of the kids when she divorces me. This will likely make my wife hate me, but I know I am doing for the right reason, now. The bottom line is, the door is always open for her to return home to me and the kids. She has chosen to leave for now and she will have to live with the consequences of initiating a divorce with a husband who was willing to let her come back with no conditions for the sake of the kids.

Just pray for God to give me the wisdom to make the right decisions to protect my kids and I will be alright. If I had no kids, I would let my wife treat me like garbage for a while in order to prove my love for her. I know that sounds stupid, but there would still come a point when I would say, “Well, I tried. Now go your own way now and may God see fit to remove the devil from within you.” Once it got to that point, my wife would either destroy herself in immorality or she would come back to me and live as God wants her to live. I am sure of that because I know God will protect me from any harm she wants to do to me and bless me for honoring my marriage by staying single and chaste. What He will do with her, I do not know for sure, but I would not want to be in her shoes if she chooses to live immorally.

You are blessed in that your kids are still with you.

 

[mmarine]

I think you’re wasting your time to be honest. I don’t think she’ll come back.

You’re right about insisting on certain conditions, but unfortunately (I’m probably being too blunt) I think your marriage is over.

I think you need to move on, hard as that will be.

I am already “moving on” by focusing more than ever on God and my new role as sole parent. I am just not moving on to another relationship because, as you know, marriage is forever in Gods eyes. So, I am embracing my new life and the benefits it affords me to get closer to God in ways I didn’t when I was with my wife. If she ever comes back, I will be a much better husband for her. In the meantime, I will be a much better Dad for my kids and a better Catholic to all I meet.

 

[mmarine]

You are blessed in that your kids are still with you.

Yes, I am.

I asked all my kids last night if they wanted to split days between their mom’s apartment and their home with me if and when their mom ever got a transfer in her job that would allow her to come home each night (cuurrently she only comes home on weekends due to her 150 mile one way commute). Each one of my kids said they only wanted to see their mom every other weekend and wanted to stay with me during the week, even if she lives nearby. So, God is already blessing me with the apparent fact that my kids appreciate that I am taking care of them every day of the school week, and still work and cook their meals and go to their school events and pay the bills. Meanwhile, my wife makes more money than me and we aren’t really sure what she does with most of it since I pay all the bills except for her gas and apartment rent. I can definitely say that money doesn’t buy happiness because I don’t have any to spare, but I am so happy to have my kids and feel so sad for my wife’s inability to recognize how backwards her prorities are.