Thank you, that does make things more clear. the method I learned did not teach that. Seems that if you do not engage in relations during your cycle you would really only have maybe one day of safe/infertile time until several days after ovulation.
I never said you “should have been using something else”
That is correct. It is permissible to engage in marital relations during a woman’s period, but there are many women or men who find it distasteful, so they do not take advantage of those days. For such couples, there would likely be a day or maybe even a few days after menstruation, before the beginning of Phase II, and then a week or so of Phase III. Again, this varies greatly from woman to woman, so I am speaking generally. But I think that aspect of some NFP methods might be why there was confusion about why you were going by mucus alone. I personally had not heard of any method that tracks only the presence of mucus. I would suspect that such a method would have a lower level of certainty, since sperm can survive in the female reproductive tract for up to 5 days or so. I do recall that during breastfeeding, before the return of fertility and monthly cycles, CCL teaches about mucus patches, and days of cycle cannot factor in at that time, and monitoring temperature is always optional. But once cycles return, day of cycle becomes important to note again.
Sounds like this method has more available days than STM, but I wonder if it would have a lower level of certainty for those who are trying to avoid pregnancy? I will definitely look into this method. I am curious to learn more about the various methods. I only know STM, and I have read a bit about Marquette.
You may need to see your fertility care practitioner again.
Are those billings rules WITH breastfeeding?
Please refrain from giving NFP directions like this-- it is most certainly NOT permissable to engage in relations during a period if avoiding pregnancy in all methods.
This is incorrect on two levels.
Had I ONLY been paying attention to CM, I STILL would have gotten pregnant, as I had NO cervical mucus. None at the opening, none wiping, NONE. Yes, I happened to be paying attention to what cycle day I was one, but even if I hadn’t, a dry day would have meant nonfertile/safe, correct?
It was my understanding that the first 5 days, regardless of if there is bleeding or not, are considered infertile.
No, I was not incorrect in either level— Read my sentence again. I said WHEN AVOIDING PREGNANCY, and IN ALL METHODS.This is incorrect on two levels.
First, I said permissible. Meaning that there is no law against it, as there is for Orthodox Jews.
Second, the Couple-to-couple League teaches that Phase I is presumed infertile unless there is mucus present. For couples who are trying to avoid pregnancy who are following this method, Phase I is open for relations, on every other day, not on consecutive days. There is also a conservative protocol, for couples who have very dire circumstances, that omits Phase I. But that is optional.
Finally, are you educated in every method that you can tell me that I am wrong when my textbook says I am correct? Are you CCL instructor? The forceful tone of your post was rather off-putting, especially since I used the word permissible specifically because there is no Church rule against engaging in relations during menstruation, and some people mistakenly believe that there is. And I was NOT giving NFP directions. I responded directly to the comment of another poster, as we were comparing our two methods for educational purposes.
That is according to one method. Not all methods use that rule
I was responding about the sympto-thermal method, and was making that comment because some couples think it is morally impermissible. She mentioned a couple of days after menstruation if the couple does not use their days of menstruation (she said cycle, but was referring to bleeding days). Many Christians are unaware that there is no longer any prohibition of using those days. And many also simply prefer not to use them for personal reasons. That is why I said what I said. I was expressing that it is always permissible for them, even if they choose not to use it for their own reasons (personal distaste, conservative protocol, etc).
I believe even that has some qualification to it. At least for STM according to TCOYF it is that so long as you had an obvious temperature shift 12-16 days earlier and you have not had a cycle shorter than 25 days in the past year. If you have had a shorter cycle you are advised to consider only the first 3 days as being infertile.
This is getting into the realm of tmi, but did you know that some methods of NFP consider vaginal sensations as part of the cm sign? As in, they ask you to pay attention not only to whether or not you have visible cm, but to whether or not you experience any “wet” or “lubricative” vaginal sensations as well as these sensations can be a sign you are fertile even if there is no visible cm.
Is this another of those crazy American Catholic phenomenon like discussing about nfp outside of Church? I’ve been Catholic my whole life and never come across anyone who thinks it is forbidden to have sex during menstration. That’s weird.
It is not crazy. As an adult convert to the faith, I asked this question in my NFP course while in RCIA, because I knew some of what the Church teaches about marriage and sexuality, but not everything, because I was still learning, and I did know that it was forbidden in the Old Testament. The OP of this thread is by a potential convert, if I recall correctly.
Ok, many apologies. I didn’t realise you were a convert. It has never been an issue in Catholicism the way it was in Judaism.