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Scott_Waddell
Guest
That is what I was thinking, but I wanted to clarify.
Scott
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Scott
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SFAgal03
Guest
While I can’t give you specific numbers and statistics and charts and graphs, I can share with you this. I am a theatre major who does a lot of work as a makeup designer. We sometimes have to make blood packets, like for stigmata or gunshots or knife wounds, etc. For this, the best thing to use is a condom. We buy them in bulk ecomomy size and, before filling them with the amount of blood we need, we test them with water. By the time we’ve tested them to make sure they won’t leak, only about 1/3 of the box is reliable. That’s an awful chance to take if you have a serious disease.
God Bless.
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Faithful_2_Rome
Guest
Pro Abstain person here…
But I also know that a condom assists in preventing the spread of disease more so than not, as well as unwanted pregnancy.
And if I ever decided to have sex…cause I aint gonna be self righteous and say I aint never gonna have sex outside of marriage, I will use a condom. Hopefully, I wont have sex, but if I do I want the right to buy them in a store…and not everyone is Christian or Catholic in this world and people do have pre marital sex…its life, its fact, we know what the Church teaches but its reality… a fallen world not a Utopic one we live in…if it was perfect we wouldnt have Confession to fall back on…so make it as safe as possible if you’re gonna have sex… abstain as long as possible…for some that could be forever…for MANY they succeed with long periods of time before giving in to the “heat” that burns… if you fall…or plan on falling use a condom… then go to confession when you get you come to senses once again. Thats about as honest and truthful as I can be.
But I also know that a condom assists in preventing the spread of disease more so than not, as well as unwanted pregnancy.
And if I ever decided to have sex…cause I aint gonna be self righteous and say I aint never gonna have sex outside of marriage, I will use a condom. Hopefully, I wont have sex, but if I do I want the right to buy them in a store…and not everyone is Christian or Catholic in this world and people do have pre marital sex…its life, its fact, we know what the Church teaches but its reality… a fallen world not a Utopic one we live in…if it was perfect we wouldnt have Confession to fall back on…so make it as safe as possible if you’re gonna have sex… abstain as long as possible…for some that could be forever…for MANY they succeed with long periods of time before giving in to the “heat” that burns… if you fall…or plan on falling use a condom… then go to confession when you get you come to senses once again. Thats about as honest and truthful as I can be.
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MooMoo5
Guest
Cove, you are wrong. You are never permitted to use condoms or go against any church teaching so that you can gain something from it (prevent disease in this case.) You can’t say it’s wrong except…it doesn’t work like that. And with God’s grace, humans CAN be strong enough to resist temptation. It is very sad that you have so little faith in yourself and all humans that you say “oh, we’re going to eventually give in anyway, might as well use a condom.” Very sad.
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MooCowSteph
Guest
Faithful 2 Rome:
I just want to mention that it is in itself a mortal sin to commit a mortal sin knowing that you can just go to confession and be forgiven…but I guess if we are truely sorry we’re forgiven either way.
Hi there,
I just want to mention that it is in itself a mortal sin to commit a mortal sin knowing that you can just go to confession and be forgiven…but I guess if we are truely sorry we’re forgiven either way.
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Tyler_Smedley
Guest
Is it ok to use condoms? HECK NO! Talk about playing games with your soul. No under any circumstances for any reasons, and they sould be illegal, because they turn women into objects for the plesure of men, and that leads to all kinds of trouble, if you need proof look at our society.
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jimmy
Guest
No that is false. The greater evil is to go against God and to sin. The disease kills only the body, but sin kills the soul.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
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jimmy
Guest
Our job is to teach the will of God in its entirity and to follow it. We are not supposed to sacrifice what is good for what is evil if we have not self control. Even if someone can not control themself it is still our job to teach what is right.
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cove
Guest
So tell me, would you say that this highly respected Catholic aide agency is wrong in their efforts to stop the spread of HIV? It seems to me that they are teaching the will of God but recognize “…the promotion of harm minimization is often a necessary and crucial short term strategy.”
cafod.org.uk/policy_and_…catholic_ethics
Part of their statement–
CAFOD also recognises that any prevention strategy must take a position on the use of condoms. Since this question is particularly sensitive in the light of Catholic teaching, CAFOD has drawn up a straightforward and summary account of where we stand as a Catholic agency.
- CAFOD’s experience shows that consistent and sustained behaviour change is part of a complex and long-term process and is rarely achieved quickly.
- At the same time CAFOD is fully aware of the scale and prevalence of HIV infection in much of Africa, Asia and elsewhere where it constitutes a public health emergency that requires immediate responses and urgent measures.
- CAFOD therefore recognises that the promotion of harm minimisation is often a necessary and crucial shorter-term strategy.
- Consequently CAFOD asks all partners working in the area of HIV prevention to give individuals full information about all means of HIV prevention and that this advice is scientifically correct. A person must be able to make decisions about preventing HIV transmission that are consistent with their religious convictions and based on their knowledge and understanding of the risks of their individual situation.
- CAFOD does not support programmes that give false or misleading information about prevention (for example that HIV will inevitably pass through holes in latex; or that condoms contain HIV; or on the other hand, that the use of condoms guarantees 100 percent ‘safe’ sex). This distorts truth, damages credibility, can alienate rather than engage individuals and others involved in mitigating the spread of HIV. It also inhibits the development of effective partnerships.
Cardinal–“The virus is transmitted during a sexual act; so at the same time as [bringing] life there is also a risk of transmitting death,” he said. “And that is where the commandment ‘thou shalt not kill’ is valid.”
Me–"I believe that killing someone is far worse then using a condom.
The condom may be evil because it denies a life from forming. But, if it can save a life in some circumstances then it is legitimate to use in the prevention of killing.
My beliefs and understanding concerning this pandemic are no different then some highly respected and knowledgable Catholics.
btw–I have hesitated posting this because I wish to move on. There really is not much more to say on this thread unless someone wants to start a thread titled-- “The HIV pandemic and how condoms can save a soul”. As the Cardinal stated “And this is where the commandment “thou shalt not kill” is valid.”
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felra
Guest
Regarding the statement
- CAFOD’s experience shows that consistent and sustained behaviour change is part of a complex and long-term process and is rarely achieved quickly.
Chastity represents an eminently personal task; it also involves a cultural effort, for there is “an interdependence between personal betterment and the improvement of society.” Chastity presupposes respect for the rights of the person, in particular the right to receive information and an education that respect the moral and spiritual dimensions of human life. (CCC 2344).
Chastity includes an apprenticeship in self-mastery which is a training in human freedom. (CCC 2339)
The virtue of chastity comes under the cardinal virtue of temperance, which seeks to permeate the passions and appetites of the senses with reason. (CCC 2341).
…and regarding the Cardinal’s statement:
“As the Cardinal stated "And this is where the commandment “thou shalt not kill” is valid."
The Cardinal needs a brush up on the Catholic understanding of the morality of human acts and what comprises intrinsic evil:
“An evil action cannot be justified by reference to a good intention” (cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, Dec. praec. 6). The end does not justify the means. (CCC 1759).
A morally good act requires the goodness of its object, of its end, and of its circumstances together. (CCC 1760).
There are concrete acts that it is always wrong to choose, because their choice entails a disorder of the will, i.e.,** a moral evil.** One may not do evil so that good may result from it. (CCC 1761).
………and regarding your statement **“Me–"I believe that killing someone is far worse then using a condom.” **……………
I would observe: “Please don’t confuse me with the facts of authoritative Church teaching.”
Time to move on?
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fix
Guest
Diseases that can be deadly and transmitted through the sexual act are nothing new. Condoms have never been determined as morally licit before. What has changed now? Nothing, just some misguided folks in the Church or some folks in the Church with a heterodox agenda.
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Island_Oak
Guest
Reiterating the church’s official line, Cardinal Cottier said condoms should not be used as contraceptives, could encourage immoral sexual conduct and were not the best way to stop the spread of HIV. But the threat of Aids was so immediate that “the use of condoms in some situations can be considered morally legitimate”.
“The virus is transmitted during a sexual act; so at the same time as [bringing] life there is also a risk of transmitting death,” he said. “And that is where the commandment ‘thou shalt not kill’ is valid.”
A blessed piece of insight which affirms my conviction that absolutes in morality can become cruel and intolerably immoral when rigidly applied without any allowance for human weakness, ingorance or even simple mistakes.
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fix
Guest
condoms and AIDS
Question from Bill Foley on 02-04-2005: Dear Fr. Torraco,Please give a detailed explanation of the true teaching of the Catholic Church regarding the issue concerning condoms and AIDS. Recently, some members of the hierarchy have been saying that there is a legitimate use for a condom by one who has AIDS in order not to spread the disease to the other partner.
A second question has just come to mind. Can a woman use a non-abortifaciant contraceptive if she knows she is going to be raped by marauding soldiers. I believe a real example was the situation of nuns in the Congo.
Thank you,
Bill Foley
Question from Bill Foley on 02-04-2005: Dear Fr. Torraco,Please give a detailed explanation of the true teaching of the Catholic Church regarding the issue concerning condoms and AIDS. Recently, some members of the hierarchy have been saying that there is a legitimate use for a condom by one who has AIDS in order not to spread the disease to the other partner.
A second question has just come to mind. Can a woman use a non-abortifaciant contraceptive if she knows she is going to be raped by marauding soldiers. I believe a real example was the situation of nuns in the Congo.
Thank you,
Bill Foley
**Answer by Fr.Stephen F. Torraco on 02-11-2005:** The answer to your first question is that condomistic intercourse cannot be morally justified for any reason or set of circumstances, not onlyt because it is contraceptive, but also because it contradicts and violates the inner meaning of marital intercourse by placing a barrier between husband and wife. The answer to your second question is yes. Rape is not INTERcourse, but rather the invasion and abuse of a person, who has the right to defend herself against such invasion and abuse.
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fix
Guest
Island Oak:
You do not believe in moral absolutes? Hardly a Catholic reasoning. Is direct abortion ever ok? Is adultery ever ok?
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cove
Guest
fix said:
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Island_Oak
Guest
Loosen your straightjacket and re-read my post, please. I said “absolutes in morality CAN become cruel…when rigidly applied…”
There is not one of us that fails in our efforts to follow moral order. I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment of the Cardinal cited above to the effect that certain of those those failings do not merit a death sentence. In so opining, I did not come close to advocating the wholesale overhaul of the moral code of the Catholic Church or even suggest that there was no place for moral absolutes therein.
There is not one of us that fails in our efforts to follow moral order. I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment of the Cardinal cited above to the effect that certain of those those failings do not merit a death sentence. In so opining, I did not come close to advocating the wholesale overhaul of the moral code of the Catholic Church or even suggest that there was no place for moral absolutes therein.
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fix
Guest
Island Oak:
btw, my jacket is looser now. Do you have your next dose of Haldol ready?
A distinction without a difference.
btw, my jacket is looser now. Do you have your next dose of Haldol ready?
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Fashina86
Guest
absolutely no condoms… there is no reason that one should use them… there is Natural Family Planning and abstinence… what more could you want?
God Bless–JMJ
Laura
God Bless–JMJ
Laura
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fix
Guest
The Church’s Infallible and Immutable Doctrine on Contraception Stands Amid Growing Opposition
*AIDS Prevention Cannot Justify Condoms – Their Use Is Intrinsically Evil and Ineffective
tfp.org/TFPForum/catholic_perspective/can_the_church_change.htm
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I think these folks get it right.**
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*AIDS Prevention Cannot Justify Condoms – Their Use Is Intrinsically Evil and Ineffective
tfp.org/TFPForum/catholic_perspective/can_the_church_change.htm
**
I think these folks get it right.**
*
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