Condoms

[_Abyssinia]

19,000 dead women worldwide who die from a backalley abortion every year is not a myth, if anything it’s one of the most conservative figures I’ve ever seen offered on the subject. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_abortion . Not only that, but in this “morally degenerate time” as I’ve read a few times today already the abortion rate has actually declined worldwide over the past fifteen years despite increasing access to it becoming available.

It has long been thought that the figure of women who died of an unsafe abortion was as high as 1.2 million during the 1950’s in the US alone. ourbodiesourselves.org/book/companion.asp?compID=100&id=20 .

I understand absolute adherence to official church teaching doesn’t really make it easy for unbiased critical observation but the facts are there. Reality isn’t perfect, but it’s not going away anytime soon.

I know Planned Parenthood is a much loathed agency but they’re the only source of statistics for the US regarding abortion I know of that are peer reviewed by academics to ensure accuracy and article quality. You can read more of one of their reports here plannedparenthood.org/files/PPFA/benefits_2009-11.pdf .

I didn’t know that, thank you. If anything though it does strengthen my point, the abortion rate isn’t really any lower or higher, but the fatalities from the abortion procedure itself certainly are lower.

The number claimed for how many women died from illegal abortion are estimates. How did the 200,000 1.2 million number get estimated? As tragic as any deaths are from ‘unsafe’ abortion, millions of babies die each year from legal abortion and women who have legal abortion also die. Here are some of the names of women who died from injuries from legal abortion:

safeandlegal.com/the-pro-choice-death-list

How many women I wonder die from legal abortion worldwide.

There are also women who get injuries from botched abortion.

 

[EasterBeagle]

According to Catholic teaching it does. But by the same token, the Orthodox church read the bible as allowing divorce, the Mormons read it as describing a multitude of Gods as opposed to the one and the Sea of Faith read it that Jesus wasn’t divine at all and there is no God.

The Bible’s one of the most vaugley worded compilations of scripture on earth and it’s all so easy to read a passage in a multitude of ways. In some ways that’s part of the beauty of it, but utterly confusing when Biblical authorities draw wildly different interpretations (And it is only Catholics who look to the Magisterium as the sole interpreter).

It’s not vague, Joseph Smith actually re-wrote the entire Bible, they have two, the original which they show others, a second that they use for themselves. Like an accountant for a crooked company keeping two sets of books. One for the IRS, the other for what’s really going on.

Matthew 19:6

“Consequently they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

Matthew 5:31-32

“And it was said, ‘Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce’; but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery”.

Mark 10:2-12

"And some Pharisees came up to Him, testing Him, and began to question Him whether it was lawful for a man to divorce a wife. And He answered and said to them, “What did Moses command you?” And they said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.” But Jesus said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. "But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female. "For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and the two shall become one flesh; consequently they are no longer two, but one flesh. “What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” And in the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. And He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.”

Luke 16:18

“Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery”.

 

[Estevao]

Ok, why does abortion keep coming into this? I agree, I don’t like abortion either but preventative contraception (condoms) and abortifecents are entirely different to one another.

Unless you want to try and convince me sperm are people, this isn’t going to work as an argument against condoms. Because every time a man fertilized his wife he’d have murdered however many millions of sperm didn’t do it.

Contraception leads to abortion, this was already pointed out.

Artifical contraception, no matter how much Catholic endorsed agencies might say otherwise is no different from “natural” methods like NFP. It’s the same deal, you’re trying to delay a conception. We can discuss a lack of “love” in the physical act but I don’t really find this argument that convincing, seeing as many Catholics use condoms and enjoy very successful marriages. I should mention however that any method of contraceptive, natural or otherwise is clearly condemned by the earlier infalliable encyclical Casti Connubii of Pius IX which makes it clear under no circumstances is it permissible to avoid a pregnancy.

I don’t think 50ish years since the last u-turn on doctrine regarding sexual practice really counts as a tradition.

NFP is not contraception. There was never a u-turn. You keep on referring to “reality” and “logic”, but you dont’ seem to want to make anything resembling an argument or a syllogism demonstrating your point. I think you’ll find if you think it through, you’ll see the Catholic position is the most logical.

Ok, easy, I can understand what you’re saying without you needing to be so angsty. Perhaps it’s just my lacking english (I’m French) but you sound pretty het up and defensive here.

Je reste complètement calme ici, je t’assure.

I don’t think Fr. Kung can really be counted as a heretic, after all he’s still allowed to give mass and has actually dined with the Pope Emeritus on several occasions (including during his pontificate) to discuss theological matters.

If he was a heretic he would have been excommunicated, and as of writing he has not neither has he recanted his views.

Unfortunately, many heretics these days are not excommunicated, I think of people like the supposedly Catholic senators in the USA who vote to murder defenseless little babies.

 

[EasterBeagle]

Contraception leads to abortion, this was already pointed out

I’m new and I don’t think I have the ability to post a picture yet, but on facebook a friend posted an overlay graph of oral contraception production, abortions and divorce per year and they line up with each other almost exactly.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

I’m new and I don’t think I have the ability to post a picture yet, but on facebook a friend posted an overlay graph of oral contraception production, abortions and divorce per year and they line up with each other almost exactly.

Are you saying you think they are casually linked?

 

[1ke]

19,000 dead women worldwide who die from a backalley abortion every year is not a myth, if anything it’s one of the most conservative figures I’ve ever seen offered on the subject. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_abortion . Not only that, but in this “morally degenerate time” as I’ve read a few times today already the abortion rate has actually declined worldwide over the past fifteen years despite increasing access to it becoming available.

It has long been thought that the figure of women who died of an unsafe abortion was as high as 1.2 million during the 1950’s in the US alone. ourbodiesourselves.org/book/companion.asp?compID=100&id=20 .

I understand absolute adherence to official church teaching doesn’t really make it easy for unbiased critical observation but the facts are there. Reality isn’t perfect, but it’s not going away anytime soon.

Pro-choicers continue to use the old lie that illegal abortions killed 5,000 to 10,000 women every year. These are not Church sources,these are pro abortion sources:

Bernard Nathanson, co-founder of the National Abortion Rights Action League, said, “I confess that I knew the figures were totally false, and I suppose others did too if they stopped to think of it. But in the ‘morality’ of the revolution, it was a useful figure, widely accepted, so why go out of our way to correct it with honest statistics. The overriding concern was to get the laws eliminated, and anything within reason which had to be done was permissible.”

Abortion guru Christopher Tietze called the 10,000 number “unmitigated nonsense.”

Planned Parenthood’s medical director, Mary Calderone, put the number at under 300 a year.

I didn’t know that, thank you. If anything though it does strengthen my point, the abortion rate isn’t really any lower or higher, but the fatalities from the abortion procedure itself certainly are lower.

No it does not support your position.

 

[confusedgirl]

This seems like adult talk but I am going to give my opinion anyways because I have just begun transitioning into adulthood.

Anyways as a teenager I pretty much only listened to my mom when I thought she was right. My mom doesn’t want me having anything to do with Catholicism at all and I love my faith. Does it seem like the right thing to do? My faith is super important to me and I won’t let even my mother convince me out of it. Now my mom picked out my clothes for a very long time… pretty sad actually but when I grew up I dress a certain way for mass that many people see as proper.

In high school many people my age were sexually active and yes a few males had approached me as well but so many things keep running through my head and I believe in marriage and no I don’t want to give away a gift from God to someone who doesn’t love me the way that I want to be loved so yes I guess you can say I was a good kid in high school for the most part. And I am not saying that teenagers who give in are bad either but perhaps it has to do more with how strongly rooted are they in their faith? Do they have morals that they are set by? There isn’t really much you can do. I mean at 16 my mind was pretty much made up already.

Maybe it is time to talk to your son about this. Let him know what his actions will lead to and pray he makes the right choice. From there it is really up to him in the end.

 

[EasterBeagle]

Are you saying you think they are casually linked?

They are in close synchronization with each other, I would say they were tied to each other.