Conference on Evolution

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StAnastasia said:
Ah, yes – the context. Let’s see – ordering the slaughter of thousands of innocent women and children – is that part of the divine role model to which I should point my students and my own children?

But perhaps we should get back to evolution, as this is somewhat off topic.

StAnastasia
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Why do you assume they are innocent. Even children can be guilty.
 
mpartyka said:
One last question: If you don’t like the God of the Old Testament, then why do you worship Him? After all, He and the God of the New Testament are one and the same God, according to Jesus and all the Apostles – and it’s important, I think, to note that they never had a problem equating the God of the Old Testament with the God of the New Testament, nor did they ever make excuses for the incidents in the Old Testament that seem to disturb you, so if they didn’t have a problem with accepting the God of the Old Testament as their own God and Father, why do you?

–Mike
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“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, blood-thirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

Thus speaks Richard Dawkins, and insofar as one interprets the Old Testament literally, he is right. However, I don’t interpret much of the Old Testament literally (nor do most other Catholic theologians), so I find his assertion amusing, and just plain silly. Interpreting the OT in its historical, sociological, economic, political and theological context, one need not arrive at Dawkins’ conclusion, and one need not see a contradiction between the “blood thirsty” Yahweh and the “Father” whom Jesus prayed.

StAnastasia
 
StAnastasia said:
Interpreting the OT in its historical, sociological, economic, political and theological context, one need not arrive at Dawkins’ conclusion, and one need not see a contradiction between the “blood thirsty” Yahweh and the “Father” whom Jesus prayed.
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I don’t think you’re interpreting the OT so much as you’re interpreting away the OT.

–Mike
 
StAnastasia said:
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, blood-thirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

Thus speaks Richard Dawkins, and insofar as one interprets the Old Testament literally, he is right. However, I don’t interpret much of the Old Testament literally (nor do most other Catholic theologians), so I find his assertion amusing, and just plain silly. Interpreting the OT in its historical, sociological, economic, political and theological context, one need not arrive at Dawkins’ conclusion, and one need not see a contradiction between the “blood thirsty” Yahweh and the “Father” whom Jesus prayed.

StAnastasia
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No, I don’t think you find his assertation amusing. You just used it to deride your critics.

Rather than accept the evidence of scripture, which describes God and his actions in a way which we don’t fully understand, you set your own standards for what God is and how he acts. If scripture doesn’t agree with StA, then scripture must be wrong. Perhaps the problem is that StA does not, and can not totally understand God (I admit that It’s beyond me).

It seems to me that we will never know God, although in heaven we will understand God better than we do here.
 
The Bible tells us, with wisdom get understanding. And plenty has been written about the Old Testament. Plenty about how to understand Old Testament writings. One thing all Catholics need to do is ask the Holy Spirit for guidance. You need to pray to God for guidance each time before you read the Bible.

Unfortunately, as presented here, the OT is a book of symbolism. That’s simply not true. Jesus tells us that Moses wrote concerning Him. Jesus also refers to events in the Old Testament as actual events, not symbolic events. Jesus is God – today – not just 2,000 years ago.

The Bible tells us that He (God) has spoken through the prophets.

When the Bible is reduced to simply human terms - to a meaningless intellectual exercise - it is placed on the same level as other books written by men. That is wrong. A special blessing is provided to all those who read the Book of Revelation.

I don’t know how many times I’ve heard it said: Ignorance of the Bible is ignorance of Christ.

Peace,
Ed
 
ricmat said:
No, I don’t think you find his assertation amusing. You just used it to deride your critics.
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No, I do find it amusing, and wrong-headed. Dawkins bases this assertion on what he perceives to be the norm of literal biblical interpretation. I am not acquainted with theologians who interpret all of the OT literally, so Dawkins’ assertion has no teeth.
 
buffalo said:
Can anyone else answer the question? StA cannot or will not.
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I didn’t understand the question, as it came out of left field; to my knowledge I do not have cancer, and I’m not sure what it has to do with evolution.
 
buffalo said:
Why do you assume they are innocent. Even children can be guilty.
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There is no excuse for stoning young women and burning babies and little children because their father stole something. Commanding or condoning that is the action of an evil sadist, not of the Father of Jesus Christ.
 
StAnastasia said:
I didn’t understand the question, as it came out of left field; to my knowledge I do not have cancer, and I’m not sure what it has to do with evolution.
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Just answer the question as asked.

If you have a tumor do you go to the doctor and ask him to remove most of it?
 
buffalo said:
Just answer the question as asked.

If you have a tumor do you go to the doctor and ask him to remove most of it?
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Buffalo, as you know, I don’t do inquisitions. If you tell me where you’re going with this, I’ll be more inclined to answer.
 
ricmat said:
Rather than accept the evidence of scripture, which describes God and his actions in a way which we don’t fully understand, you set your own standards for what God is and how he acts.
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Exodus 31:15 – “Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whoever does any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.”

Walmart, Home Depot, Best Buy, Burger King, and the Chevron Station are open and making money on Sunday.
 
ricmat said:
Rather than accept the evidence of scripture, which describes God and his actions in a way which we don’t fully understand, you set your own standards for what God is and how he acts. If scripture doesn’t agree with StA, then scripture must be wrong. Perhaps the problem is that StA does not, and can not totally understand God (I admit that It’s beyond me).

It seems to me that we will never know God, although in heaven we will understand God better than we do here.
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StAnastasia said:
Exodus 31:15 – “Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whoever does any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.”

Walmart, Home Depot, Best Buy, Burger King, and the Chevron Station are open and making money on Sunday.
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Thank you for making my point.

You don’t understand why God would say this (or you disagree with it), therefore you think it must be wrong.

I’m not a theologian, but it seems to me that not just for the old Israel, but even today, spiritual death (as mentioned in verse 14) is certainly inevitable for those who insist on turning their backs on God.
 
ricmat said:
Thank you for making my point.You don’t understand why God would say this (or you disagree with it), therefore you think it must be wrong.I’m not a theologian, but it seems to me that not just for the old Israel, but even today, spiritual death (as mentioned in verse 14) is certainly inevitable for those who insist on turning their backs on God.
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Gee – I thought the whole point you guys and gals were making is that the Old Testament is to be interpreted literally; at least that’s the argument I’ve been hearing today. If we’ve now switched to a figurative interpretation, then we’re on the same page. Back to the conference on evolution!

StAnastasia
 
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