Conference to Promote Communion Kneeling and on the Tongue

[CradleRC58]

COTT while kneeling is the norm. CITH while standing is permitted per indult.

The laity do not determine the method of reception. The notion that those who prefer to receive COTT think of themselves as better Catholics is a myth. Just because there are those who do think of themselves as better does not justify labeling all who prefer COTT as such.

 

[CilladeRoma]

Actually, in the US, standing is the “norm”, as decided by the US Bishops. No one is to be refused for kneeling.
And yes, it is up to the person receiving to decide how they will receive.

 

[CradleRC58]

Receiving on the tongue kneeling is already guaranteed so not sure what they’re on about there.

True, COTT is the norm. It has been since the 5th Century. Several councils between the 7th and 9th centuries went as far as chastising clergy who did not promote it. So, from ~600AD - ~1970AD the Church determined that COTT while kneeling was the manner in which the laity was to receive the Most Blessed Sacrament.

So what are they on about ?

Well, there are many reasons. I’m not familiar with the reasons of those holding the conference specifically, but I would imagine that the building of faith in the Most Blessed Sacrament is one goal. And yes, I truly believe that faith in the MBS can be strong in those who receive in their hands. I am certain of it.

But, after ~ 1,400 years of kneeling to receive, there are those who feel that this tradition should never be lost.

There are those who embrace that tradition and feel that they should receive in that manner. They believe that it is the most reverent way to receive. And there is nothing wrong with that. It’s simply a spiritual need, the comfort and knowing they are receiving in what the Chuch determined what was the most reverent manner since the 5th century.

And the clergy who keep the tradition alive are doing what they are called to do. Building faith and saving souls.

As for the second part, unless they want to do away with frequent reception of the eucharist or suddenly magic up a massive amount more priests and deacons, distribution by the laity is here to stay!

What would be the issue other than it Communion taking a few minutes longer ?

 

[CradleRC58]

Yes, it became the norm for the OF in the US after the indult was granted.

 

[Peeps]

If postures didn’t matter, then perhaps it would make sense that the next big liturgical change should be to do away with all required standing and kneeling then. Because by that logic one can have just as much reverence sitting through the entire Mass without needless action that is intended to reflect reverence, that one truly has in their hearts anyway.

Yes!

Seriously I certainly hope that I have just as much reverence sitting through the entire Mass as those who are able to kneel at the appropriate times.

What I hear you saying is that those of us who cannot kneel aren’t capable of as much reverence as those of you who can kneel. Surely that’s not what you’re saying?

 

[Peeps]

Yup. It has happened to me and is one of the reasons why I will never attend the EF in my diocese again.

I have an auto-immune disease that causes severe joint pain, but I look young and healthy.
When I approached the altar rail, I stood near the corner. The priest ignored me the first time he passed me, then told me to kneel if I wanted to receive. Since I could not, I left the rail and returned to my pew.

After Mass, I tried to talk to Father, who didn’t want to hear it. He accused me of lying and said that if I ever attended his Mass again I must kneel.

I also was demeaned by a bunch of people at an OF Good Friday service, who felt my lack of kneeling was just laziness.

So, yeah, I believe it can happen.

This is horrible. I’m so sorry.

I’ve seen this happen at the Latin Mass parish in my city, too, with the former priest. I’m thankful that he moved away, and the new priest is younger, delightful and very kind. So don’t give up on your Latin Mass–hopefully a different priest will eventually be there.

 

[angel12]

What If one cannot kneel? Doesn’t that make them a sort of second class citizen in the eyes of all who watch?

If someone is judging a person for not being able to kneel, that’s their problem. And why on earth do you think that “ALL who watch” would be so judgemental?

 

[Peeps]

No!

NEVER write a letter! That gives people “evidence” that can be used against you in future situations! Your reputation, career, social standing, or church standing can be destroyed.

I know this sounds like I have an over-active imagination, but I have had this happen and I have SEEN it happen to others. People can be very devious. Don’t go there! Guard your reputation and don’t put anything in writing that you’re not willing to see ten, twenty, or even fifty years later!

 

[Peeps]

If the parishes had communion rails it would be less complicated,

Since you are immuno-suppressed, a communion rail could be dangerous for you. If you put your hands on the rail, you could come into contact with bacteria or viruses left there by the person who put their hands on the rail immediately before you.

Thankfully you wear gloves.

But most others do NOT wear gloves, and they are touching that same rail that dozens, perhaps hundreds of others have touched before them. Eugh.

Hand-sanitizers! (I see lots of people using them these days!) Someone, though, it seems to negate the beauty of receiving the Lord in Holy Communion when our first action is to stand up and whip out the hand sanitizer! Oh, well, we’re human, and Jesus does not despise our humanity.

I work in clinical microbiology, BTW, and I get to see the charming abscesses and other evidences of infection and the cute and dangerous little bacteria that they grow out! Eugh!

Be careful out there, everyone!

 

[CilladeRoma]

An indult was not granted. It is through the competence of the Bishops conference that the norms for a particlar region are made.
The US conference decided the normative posture for receiving in the US was to be standing. No one is to be refused if the choose to kneel.

 

[gracepoole]

Crusader13:

You honestly believe that everyone else is the parish is going to look down on someone who physically can’t kneel???

Yup. It has happened to me and is one of the reasons why I will never attend the EF in my diocese again.

I have an auto-immune disease that causes severe joint pain, but I look young and healthy.
When I approached the altar rail, I stood near the corner. The priest ignored me the first time he passed me, then told me to kneel if I wanted to receive. Since I could not, I left the rail and returned to my pew.

After Mass, I tried to talk to Father, who didn’t want to hear it. He accused me of lying and said that if I ever attended his Mass again I must kneel.

If true, you ran into one cranky priest. Why should any generalizations be drawn from your limited experience?

 

[CilladeRoma]

Because of your selective editing, your forgot to include the time at the OF that I also related.
And others others related stories if the same type of judgement.

On this forum, hands wring when someone is denied Communion for kneeling, and the labels of modernism and CINO come out, but relate an experience like mine, and it is always an isolated incident.

 

[HeDa]

And invent something that helps those who also had surgery to their shoulders so that they could get back up on their feet.

 

[gracepoole]

Because of your selective editing, your forgot to include the time at the OF that I also related.
And others others related stories if the same type of judgement.

On this forum, hands wring when someone is denied Communion for kneeling, and the labels of modernism and CINO come out, but relate an experience like mine, and it is always an isolated incident.

I “selectively edited” because the second experience you described was even more vague than the first. Forgive me, but it’s reasonable to ask whether your behavior and attitude might contribute to the way others treat you.

 

[CilladeRoma]

Your are forgiven, but no, my attitude has nothing to do with it.
Again, why is it so easy for some to believe that those kneeling who experience resistance to empathize with them and blame VII, modernism, blah, blah, blah, but the minute the story is flipped, it is all of a sudden the “attitude” of the agrieved person??

 

[gracepoole]

Your are forgiven, but no, my attitude has nothing to do with it.
Again, why is it so easy for some to believe that those kneeling who experience resistance to empathize with them and blame VII, modernism, blah, blah, blah, but the minute the story is flipped, it is all of a sudden the “attitude” of the agrieved person??

First, I would hope that any anecdotal stories about being treated poorly during Mass would be questioned. You keep claiming that when traditionalists complain about being denied communion, everyone is supportive. But when non-traditionalists complain about the same, they’re harangued. You’ve presented zero evidence for this claim. You seem determined to make this into a post-VII vs. traditionalist dialectic but for what reason I’ve no idea.

Second, your online demeanor demonstrates that you aren’t shy about making your attitudes known. It would be naive for anyone to ask whether your face-to-face demeanor might have made the situations you describe worse. Asking the question doesn’t mean it happened – it’s a question. One that hopefully you’ve asked yourself, too.

 

[blackforest]

Finally, the Church is doing something about communion while standing.

You mean they’re finally “doing something” about something they’ve allowed all along?

If the parishes had communion rails it would be less complicated, but I see the influence of ego in the entire tongue only-kneeling only movement, i.e. I’m a better Catholic if I receive to their standards.

I’ve long argued that movements within our Church for modesty and reverence can quickly get immodest and irreverent when we start to fancy ourselves as morally superior. As the saying goes, the moment we become aware of our humility, we’ve lost it.

Sorry to hear you’re having a difficult time at church; we Catholics are supposed to be against able-ism.

 

[Crusader13]

Seriously I certainly hope that I have just as much reverence sitting through the entire Mass as those who are able to kneel at the appropriate times.

What I hear you saying is that those of us who cannot kneel aren’t capable of as much reverence as those of you who can kneel. Surely that’s not what you’re saying?

Again the issue isn’t about one’s physical ability to kneel. I don’t understand the logic behind this argument. If you can’t kneel because of a disability you’re not being irreverent.

If you’re forced to sit through Mass because you’re disabled you’re not being irreverent.

My post was making the point that during Mass we are required to kneel and stand at certain points. Why??? Obviously these postures are required to show reverence and respect at these key points in the liturgy. So the argument that “reverence has nothing to do with posture” is invalid.

If that argument was true, then why do we have to perform these postures, if in themselves they are meaningless acts of devotion?

 

[CilladeRoma]

Second, your online demeanor demonstrates that you aren’t shy about making your attitudes known. It would be naive for anyone to ask whether your face-to-face demeanor might have made the situations you describe worse. Asking the question doesn’t mean it happened – it’s a question. One that hopefully you’ve asked yourself, too.

My “demeanor” is just fine. How you can judge that from the written word, I don’t know.

And it is as simple at looking at this thread to see the dichotomy of attitudes towards kneeling and standing.

With that, thank you, have a nice day.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I think the whole conference sounds like a great idea. Our priest and bishop just recently gave us a very stern homily and a letter on the need for reverence for the Real Presence. They didn’t mention kneeling. I wish they would have. IMHO a kneeler or altar rail should be available at every parish.

It doesn’t mean because you can’t kneel you are not being reverent but if you can kneel, why not?

Along with others, no doubt, I’ve been praying for the hierarchy in the Church to start discussing this.