Confessing your sins only to God?

[Mannyfit75]

Also remember, Christ stated, “No one comes to the Father, except by me.” (John 14:6). There are other references in the Bible telling how the Father only forgives sins. God reads your heart. He knows if you are sincere in your repentence of your sins. Jesus (who was God in the flesh) forgave the adulterous woman and told her to, “Go and sin no more.” He didn’t require 3 Our fathers and 10 Hail Mary’s for penance.

Yet Jesus told us to forgive sins. Jesus granted the Apostles to forgive sins.

He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained -John 20:21-23.

Here Jesus granted His Apostles to forgive sins. He said, "received the Holy Spirit, and granted them this power, “Whose sin you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.” This not granted to all Christians, this was granted to the Apostles and their successors.

When a priest ask you for penance, it is virtue for the hatred of sin.

The Catholic Encyclopedia states,

Penance here is a supernatural moral virtue whereby the sinner is disposed to hatred of his sin as an offence against God and to a firm purpose of amendment and satisfaction. The principal act in the exercise of this virtue is the detestation of sin, not of sin in general nor of that which others commit, but of one’s own sin. The motive of this detestation is that sin offends God: to regret evil deeds on account of the mental or physical suffering the social loss, or the action of human justice which they entail, is natural; but such sorrow does not suffice for penance. On the other hand, the resolve to amend, while certainly necessary, is not sufficient of itself, i.e., without hatred for sin already committed; such a resolve, in fact, would be meaningless; it would profess obedience to God’s law in the future while disregarding the claims of God’s justice in the matter of past transgression

newadvent.org/cathen/11618b.htm

 

[Kitty_Chan]

You hit a point there – those who say, “I confess directly to God” really mean, “I confess to myself and I forgive myself.”

Beyond the theological reasons we confess to priests is the practical reason – anyone who has gone through the agony of preparing for confession knows that a “private conversation with God” is simply a cop-out.

Its not a cop-out as you say. Everyone here states how beautiful it is to have the eucherist. And I guess protestants dont understand it. But perhaps catholics dont understand confession before God. The agony is the same, what because its said in private with God it doesnt count for anything? If we truly are regretful in our heart, God lets you know. And if your not regretful or willing to change, He lets you know that too.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I think many Non-Catholic Christians failed to realized that it is God who forgive sins through the Sacrament of Confession, and only use the priest as a his instrument.

The priest recites these words during confession.

God, the Father of mercies,

through the death and resurrection of his Son has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us

for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the** name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.**

 

[vern_humphrey]

Its not a cop-out as you say. Everyone here states how beautiful it is to have the eucherist. And I guess protestants dont understand it. But perhaps catholics dont understand confession before God. The agony is the same, what because its said in private with God it doesnt count for anything? If we truly are regretful in our heart, God lets you know. And if your not regretful or willing to change, He lets you know that too.

On the contrary – we examine our souls prior to confession. In the process, we reveal what is in our hearrts to God. So we know both – what it is like to privately examine our souls and what it is like to confess to a priest.

I repeat, who only “confesses to God” is really only confessing to himself, and only forgiving himself.

 

[RNRobert]

Just a thought, not based in Scripture or Church teaching…

I’ve noticed that Protestants, when they’ve committed a serious sin, seem to be in a perpetual state of apologizing to God, begging forgiveness again and again for the same sin, even though they may not have repeated it. They seem to not be able to let go of the guilt that they feel.

Catholics, having the Sacrament of Reconciliation, can go to confession, do their penance, resolve with God’s help not to repeat the sin, and let it go.

I think there’s something about having someone speaking in persona Christi, telling you that your sins are forgiven that is very healing.

YES! I recall listening to an Evangelical preacher on the radio, and said that one of the hardest things for Christians to accept was the fact that they’ve been forgiven. I’m reminded of the story of the little girl who was afraid of the dark. “Don’t worry,” her parents told her, “Jesus is with you.” “I know,” the little girl replied, “but I want somebody with arms.”
This is what confession does: it gives human ‘arms’ to God’s Love.

 

[lak611]

YES! I recall listening to an Evangelical preacher on the radio, and said that one of the hardest things for Christians to accept was the fact that they’ve been forgiven. I’m reminded of the story of the little girl who was afraid of the dark. “Don’t worry,” her parents told her, “Jesus is with you.” “I know,” the little girl replied, “but I want somebody with arms.”
This is what confession does: it gives human ‘arms’ to God’s Love.

I’ll have to remember this one! That’s a great analogy.

 

[RNRobert]

G.K. Chesterton wrote that what Protestants threw out of their churches the modern world brought back in because it couldn’t live without them, but in a lower form. One example was the confessional which was replaced with the psychoanalyst’s couch.

 

[RNRobert]

A few years ago I was reading through the Old Testament and came across this passage in Leviticus:

"If any person refuses to give the information which, as a witness of something he has seen or learned, he has been adjured to give, and thus commits a sin and has guilt to bear;
or if someone, without being aware of it, touches any unclean thing, as the carcass of an unclean wild animal, or that of an unclean domestic animal, or that of an unclean swarming creature, and thus becomes unclean and guilty;
or if someone, without being aware of it, touches some human uncleanness, whatever kind of uncleanness this may be, and then recognizes his guilt;
or if someone, without being aware of it, rashly utters an oath to do good or evil, such as men are accustomed to utter rashly, and then recognizes that he is guilty of such an oath;
then whoever is guilty in any of these cases shall confess the sin he has incurred,
and as his sin offering for the sin he has committed he shall bring to the LORD a female animal from the flock, a ewe lamb or a she-goat. The priest shall then make atonement for his sin. (Leviticus 5:1-6, NAB)

I thought it interesting that even in the Old Testament, there was a need for confession.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

On the contrary – we examine our souls prior to confession. In the process, we reveal what is in our hearrts to God. So we know both – what it is like to privately examine our souls and what it is like to confess to a priest.

I repeat, who only “confesses to God” is really only confessing to himself, and only forgiving himself.

There is no contrary, when I said “* But perhaps catholics dont understand confession before God.*”

That was not a statement about catholics rather a reference to what the topic of the thread was, its title is: * confessiong your sins only to God?* To that title and topic I was referring to. Unfortunetely it had a double meaning.

Heres my post again, I adjusted for a bit of clarity;

Its not a cop-out as you say. Everyone here states how beautiful it is to have the eucherist. And I guess protestants dont understand it.

But perhaps catholics dont understand “protestant confession before God”. The agony is the same, its simply not true that because its said in private with God it doesnt count for anything. If we truly are regretful in our heart, God lets you know. And if your not regretful or willing to change, He lets you know that too.

 

[jmcrae]

But perhaps catholics dont understand “protestant confession before God”. The agony is the same, its simply not true that because its said in private with God it doesnt count for anything. If we truly are regretful in our heart, God lets you know. And if your not regretful or willing to change, He lets you know that too.

Hopefully that’s true. But I think it would be a lot easier to let things slide, and not to make a complete Confession of your sins, without that other person there, asking you questions and teaching you how to discern your sins.

I know for myself, when I was Protestant, nobody ever taught me how to make a proper Examination of Conscience, and there were a lot of things I was doing that I never even realized were sinful at all.

 

[Eileen_T]

Thought I’d share this

http://www.holyfamily.org.nz/images/confession.jpg

= 1000 words

 

[Eileen_T]

I have counselled many women who have had an abortion. Although they repented in their heart, they needed to hear me tell them that they were forgiven.

The Catholics who then went to Confession and received absolution from a priest, healed faster than those who didn’t (non-C’s) who kept having niggling doubts that God really had forgiven them. Instead, they kept coming back to me seeking reassurance.

 

[Eileen_T]

Confession to a priest was a practice of the Early Church who were much closer to the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles than we are.

Tertullian – “mindful more of their shame than of their salvation, like those who hide from the physician the malady they suffer in the secret parts of the body, and thus perish through bashfulness. . . . because we withhold anything from the knowledge of men, do we thereby conceal it from God? . . . Is it better to hide and be damned than to be openly absolved?” (“De poenit.”, x).

St. Cyprian (d. 258) pleaded for greater mildness in the treatment of sinners, “since we find that no one ought to be forbidden to do penance and that to those who implore the mercy of God peace can be granted through His priests. . . . And because in hell there is no confession, nor can exomologesis be made there, they who repent with their whole heart and ask for it, should be received into the Church and therein saved unto the Lord” (Ep. lv, “Ad Antonian.”, n. 29).

Elsewhere he says that many who do not do penance or confess their guilt are filled with unclean spirits; and by contrast he praises the greater faith and more wholesome fear of those who, though not guilty of any idolatrous action, *“nevertheless, because they thought of [such action], confess [their thought] in sorrow and simplicity to the priests of God, make the exomologesis of their conscience, lay bare the burden of their soul, and seek a salutary remedy even for wounds that are slight” *(“De lapsis”, xxvi sqq.).

Origen (d. 154) compares the sinner to those whose stomachs are overloaded with undigested food or with excess of humours and phlegm if they vomit, they are relieved, “so, too, those who have sinned, if they conceal and keep the sin within, they are distressed and almost choked by its humour or phlegm. But if they accuse themselves and confess, they at the same time vomit the sin and cast off every cause of disease” (Homil. on Ps. xxxvii, n. 6, in P.G., XII, 1386).

St. Irenæus (130-102) relates the case of certain women whom the Gnostic Marcus had led into sin. *“Some of them”, he says, “perform their exomologesis openly also [etiam in manifesto], while others, afraid to do this, draw back in silence, despairing to regain the life of God” *(“Adv. haer.”, I, xiii, 7, in P.G., VII, 591). This etiam in manifesto suggests at least that they had confessed privately, but could not bring themselves to make a public confession.

Here is a quote that is very relevat to this thread

St. Augustine said in one of his sermons: “Let no one say I do penance secretly; I perform it in the sight of God, and He who is to pardon me knows that in my heart I repent”. Whereupon St. Augustine asks: "Was it then said to no purpose, ‘What you shall loose upon earth shall be loosed in heaven?’ Was it for nothing that the keys were given to the Church?" (Sermo cccxcii, n. 3, in P.L., XXXIX, 1711).

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Hopefully that’s true. But I think it would be a lot easier to let things slide, and not to make a complete Confession of your sins, without that other person there, asking you questions and teaching you how to discern your sins.

I know for myself, when I was Protestant, nobody ever taught me how to make a proper Examination of Conscience, and there were a lot of things I was doing that I never even realized were sinful at all.

Not knowing how thorough the other person is, one can still not be honest with themselves even in the confession booth. People have a sinful nature, I found out today a ex employee (pentacostal) who I never thought would lie, did just that before he left. (didnt leave for that reason) I have a friend who went through the premarriage (catholic) course with another couple and never told them they were living together.

I only say these things to point out the pressense of another person does not ensure that you wont let things slide. And to be honest it can be like you said and no one “seeing” could tempt a person to let slide. Like I mentioned before, God doesnt let you away with it. That little thing, dont know what catholics call it but conviction. I picture Jesus sitting there patiently, when I look back from where Im leaving Him, walking further away, me - letting the “problem” cause a distance, its true we move He doesnt. But then you realise, Hes right, your wrong and you go back and say so.

The examination of conscience sounds interesting, is it on a web site? Now, you have brought that up, I cannot let it go, I am not correct about everything, I dont succumb to this sola scripture that everyones on about, When I hear something ,I want to know, I test it, ask others, pray, research it, until Im comfortable with it or leave it in the deciding file, to figure out later, or never, a mystery, I simply wont know until I die, and Im ok with that. The main point of any confession is to leave your old man behind and grow.

Something else I just thought of, If I confess something to God, it doesnt generally stay there. One usually takes that confession to another person, so perhaps were more catholic than we know honest enough?

 

[DianJo]

A few years ago I was reading through the Old Testament and came across this passage in Leviticus:

I thought it interesting that even in the Old Testament, there was a need for confession.

The OT passages you wrote are particularly relevant in this discussion as it points out that confession to a priest has been part of the faith in God for thousands of years. (Leviticus 5:1-6)

In the Garden of Eden, when Adam and Eve sinned, God came walking through the Garden looking for them. Adam got God’s attention and told Him he was hiding because he was naked. Do you think God didn’t know this? God asks Adan how he knew he was naked.* Do you think God didn’t know how Adam knew he was naked?* God then asks Adam, “What have you done?” Do you think God didn’t know what Adam had done?

Of course, God knew - He wanted Adam to confess his own sin. Fortunately for Adam and Eve, God was someone who could be seen by Adam and Eve and were in His presence daily. We are not in the same situation as Adam and Eve. Once thrown out of Paradise, Adam and Eve never again saw or walked with God but, God did walk with them. He knows how we are because He made us - we are human and we need to see, hear, feel, taste and touch. He taught them how to worship and sacrifice, he sent Prophets who brought God’s own words. He used the human being to communicate with us and to teach us.

Just as Moses talked with God, God did not talk with everyone, did He? No, he used a man, Moses. God also uses everyday things of the people to affect change like, oil, water, wine, dirt, spittle. He comes to us through our senses. God also taught our ancestors how to offer sacrifice to Him for sins.

There were 4 sacrifices - peace, thanksgiving, sin and guilt. Animals or grains, fruits, etc. were to be offered for certain sins and in all cases, the priest was the one doing the sacrifice on behalf of the people because he was the one chosen by God to act as mediator with Him. Not once does the sinful person do their own sacrificing for their own sin!

This doesn’t mean that because Jesus came into the picture that all that priest stuff and sacrificing was to be done away with - No - Jesus did not come to abolish, He came to fulfill. He instituted a new covenant (the Passover fulfilled and perpetuated in the Mass) and a new covenant priesthood to continue to act as mediator between man and God and to offer the Paschal sacrifice - just as when Moses was chosen by God and acted as mediator between the people and God. Jesus shows that when He gave the Apostles to power to forgive or bind sins.

The forgiveness of sins with the actions of a priest and sacrifice (penance) has been taught to us by God from the beginning of salvation history.

 

[jmcrae]

Not knowing how thorough the other person is, one can still not be honest with themselves even in the confession booth. People have a sinful nature, I found out today a ex employee (pentacostal) who I never thought would lie, did just that before he left. (didnt leave for that reason) I have a friend who went through the premarriage (catholic) course with another couple and never told them they were living together.

It seems as though they were never asked.

When a priest goes through the Examination of Conscience with you, he asks you all of these things, and particularly, anything that pertains especially to your state in life.

The examination of conscience sounds interesting, is it on a web site?

I have one for kids, HERE.

There are more detailed ones available for adults - unfortunately I have lost the link to my favourite one.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

It seems as though they were never asked.

When a priest goes through the Examination of Conscience with you, he asks you all of these things, and particularly, anything that pertains especially to your state in life. .

hmmm Perhaps the couple didnt ask, but Im sure the priest did his job. I know . . . I said it was a bad idea, but it wasnt my decision. This is why I said it is easy to lie to others and yourself.

In the end even with the priest there (and Im not arguing here please understand this) its still between you and God. And we often fool ourselves and think we can get away with it. But I remember there is nowhere we can hide from God, so its better to come clean, (He knows anyway, youre only fooling yourself)

I will check that site thanks,

 

[jmcrae]

In the end even with the priest there (and Im not arguing here please understand this) its still between you and God.

Of course. But when the priest is there, wearing his black suit and purple stole, and speaking to you softly and gently, with the crucifix up on the wall above you, and the Bible on the table next to you, you really know that God is there with you, in a way that’s hard to know when you’re sitting in your room at home, by yourself.

I will check that site thanks,

I created that whole web site for all of my Church ministries - feel free to download anything that’s useful to you.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

When a priest goes through the Examination of Conscience with you, he asks you all of these things, and particularly, anything that pertains especially to your state in life.
I have one for kids, HERE.

had a chance to check out the site, at the risk of sounding like a arguement. This is what I do, examine each area of my life and bring it before God. I dont know if other protestants do or what. Like I said I could be strange. Ive had some very good Pastors a great hubby, family members and spiritual friends. I also love reading various authors especially those old ones.

I can understand what you mean by the Priest being there, the signs of faith like the Bible and a crucifix, I could see it reassuring. When one is praying though, your never alone, the only time you are is when youve moved away from God. Ive felt that and know the difference. So I dont feel Im alone in my room, or sitting by the lake or whereever I would be. And if Im supposed to talk to someone else after that becomes clear as well.

Im not reflecting on what a Catholic would do although I definetely understand it much more through this and other posts. Im merely stating what I as a protestant does in confessing her sins to God.

 

[LilyM]

It was good enough for this man too…

Luke 18:13-14 KJV 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Actually it WASN’T good enough for David … he prayed to the Lord for forgiveness, sure, but read 2 Samuel 12:13 recounting David’s repentance of his affair with Bathsheba after the prophet Nathan pricks his conscience about it:

“Then David said to Nathan ‘I have sinned against the Lord’. Nathan answered David, 'The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die.”

Catholic confession in a nutshell, a thousand or more years before the time of Christ! Admission of sin to God’s representative, forgiveness pronounced in God’s name by that representative. Nathan even goes on to mention that the child born of David’s adultery will die. Almost a prefigurement of the idea of penance or atonement for sin.