Confession after 1st. Communion?

[Jkaim]

Hi, my son is in 2nd grade and will be making his First Communion this spring. Our parish has the kids have their first confession in 4th grade. The material I was given explains that you cannot take first communion if you have committed a mortal sin, and 7 year olds most likely have not committed a mortal sin. And they better understand the concept when they are 9-10years old. I looked this up in the Catechism and it states in 1457 - #58 Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time. What should I do? Can individual parishes change the order of this? Thank you

 

[Detroit_Sue]

You should change parishes. You will only beat your head against the wall trying to get the priest to do things in the right order. It is an abuse. It is disobedient. And a dollar says, the priest won’t care what you think.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I must agree with Sue–you might have to change parishes, and you may even have to go outside the diocese (although I doubt it would come to that). If it does, consider finding a sympathetic priest at your parents’ parish, for example. My sympathies to you.

Sounds like your parish, or diocese, has somehow gotten the whole idea of the Sacrament of Penance all wrong. It isn’t just for mortal sin. While it isn’t strictly necessary to confess venial sins, it is certainly praiseworthy to do so. It also instills in children (and adults) the habit of examining the conscience, of sorrow for sins, no matter how large or small, and of the experience of forgiveness, and starting afresh.

Making it seem to be “for mortal sin only”, and (usually concurrently) fostering the idea that, goshgeewillikins, most people can hardly sin mortally anyway, leads to the widespread situation we have today, where people might go to confession once in a DECADE, because “they haven’t really sinned”.

Poppycock.

 

[netmilsmom]

- #58 Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time. What should I do? Can individual parishes change the order of this? Thank you

I sat in your shoes!
You have two choices.
First choice, walk into the DRE with this quote from the Catechism and state that the Vatican says that all children MUST make 1st Communion after 1st Confession. Expect her to state that this was left up to the Bishops (untrue). State that YOUR child needs to make 1st Confession before because he understands what sin is. (this is the excuse I was given, 7 year olds don’t understand sin) Expect an attitude and you may not get your way.

Second choice, find a good parish that does it the right way.
Go there, quickly. Explain to the Pastor what went on at the old parish and beg to have your son taken to CCD there. Volunteer to homeschool anything that your son is lacking.

Take a stand. You have only one shot at doing what’s right with your child.

God Bless and I’ll be praying for you.

 

[buffalo]

I think the following applies the same way as it does for the Lliturgy.

From Redemptionis Sacramentum:

1. Complaints Regarding Abuses in Liturgical Matters

[183.] In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favouritism.

[184.] Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.[290] It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity.
…

All things to the contrary notwithstanding.

This Instruction, prepared by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments by mandate of the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II in collaboration with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, was approved by the same Pontiff on the Solemnity of St. Joseph, 19 March 2004, and he ordered it to be published and to be observed immediately by all concerned.

From the offices of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Rome, on the Solemnity of the Annunciation of the Lord, 25 March 2004.

Francis Card. Arinze
Prefect

Domenico Sorrentino
Archbishop Secretary

 

[Michael_C]

I think before a person leaves a parish they have a duty to try and change what’s wrong. You need to express how you feel with the pastor.

My daughter makes communion in may and made her first confession saturday, she’s 7.

 

[netmilsmom]

Michael C:

I think before a person leaves a parish they have a duty to try and change what’s wrong. You need to express how you feel with the pastor.

My daughter makes communion in may and made her first confession saturday, she’s 7.

I agree with you to a point.
We as parents have a larger obligation than the duty to change the parish. We must get our children the proper teachings. If one has the ability to get a child to a Catechism class where the rules are followed, that must be done.
In my old parish, talking to the Priest was not in the mix. He defaulted to the DRE. She was a wonderful person but a touchy-feelie Catholic. I was allowed to let my daughter make 1st Confession before 1st Communion there, but they would not be teaching her an “Act of Contrition” because “they forget it anyway”. What else were they teaching her?

Here is an example…
I volunteered to assist in 1st Grade CCD. We discussed the Host and Wine becoming the Body and Blood of Christ. One of the boys asked, “Is it really blood?”
The instructor said, “No.”
EXCUSE ME? No further explaination, no explaination of how the matter changes or how it doesn’t, nothing. How can it change to the blood of Christ when it isn’t blood. Much further explaination was warranted. But it was left with a “no”. That’s pretty confusing to a six year old. (my daughter sure had questions for me after) I didn’t know how to explain it, but one would think that anyone teaching should know how.

There may well be other problems in the class that the parents don’t even see.

 

[kmktexas]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

You have two choices.
First choice, walk into the DRE with this quote from the Catechism and state that the Vatican says that all children MUST make 1st Communion after 1st Confession. Expect an attitude and you may not get your way.

Second choice, find a good parish that does it the right way.
beg to have your son taken to CCD there.

Both valid options. There is a third choice, too. Prepare your son for his first confession yourself and bring him with you to confession. He can get in line and make his first confession that way. This can be done at your parish or a neighboring one. The priest might be surprized but he cannot deny him the sacrament. First Confession is not like Baptism, First Communion, Matrimony or Confirmation in that it doesn’t need to be recorded in the permanent records of the parish. You don’t need permission to go to confession if you have reached the age of reason (knowing right from wrong). You just need to be a Baptised Catholic.

In the interest of honestly, I must state that this wasn’t my idea. It was the advise given by a priest on another forum.

Which choice you make depends a lot on the relative severity of this problem and how much you want to make waves just before your son’s First Communion. If this is symptomatic of other “innovations” going on at this parish, you might want to take a low-visibility option now and move on after your son makes his First Communion with his class in the spring. Good luck.

 

[netmilsmom]

kmktexas:

Both valid options. There is a third choice, too. Prepare your son for his first confession yourself and bring him with you to confession. He can get in line and make his first confession that way. This can be done at your parish or a neighboring one. The priest might be surprized but he cannot deny him the sacrament. First Confession is not like Baptism, First Communion, Matrimony or Confirmation in that it doesn’t need to be recorded in the permanent records of the parish. You don’t need permission to go to confession if you have reached the age of reason (knowing right from wrong). You just need to be a Baptised Catholic.

In the interest of honestly, I must state that this wasn’t my idea. It was the advise given by a priest on another forum.

Which choice you make depends a lot on the relative severity of this problem and how much you want to make waves just before your son’s First Communion. If this is symptomatic of other “innovations” going on at this parish, you might want to take a low-visibility option now and move on after your son makes his First Communion with his class in the spring. Good luck.

You are so right!!!
Kudos!

 

[Strider]

Besides all of the above, ask your priest or the DRE if he pushes her off on her, "If my son is old enough to understand transubstantiation, how can he be too young to understand sin, venial or mortal?
“If he’s not old enough to understand transubatamntiation, how can you presume to allow him to receive First Communion?”

 

[Jkaim]

kmktexas:

. There is a third choice, too. Prepare your son for his first confession yourself and bring him with you to confession. He can get in line and make his first confession that way.

Thank you all for your advice! I really like the parish, other than this issue. I approached the DRE with my concerns and quoted the Catechism. She told me I could have my son make his confession first, but he would have t attend a weekend retreat with the 4th grade catechists. Not something a 2nd grader would jump up to do. So I think I will just take him for confession privately prior to First Communion. Then he can do it again in 4th grade

 

[netmilsmom]

Jkaim:

but he would have t attend a weekend retreat with the 4th grade catechists. Not something a 2nd grader would jump up to do.

Like over night???

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Jkaim:

Hi, my son is in 2nd grade and will be making his First Communion this spring. Our parish has the kids have their first confession in 4th grade. The material I was given explains that you cannot take first communion if you have committed a mortal sin, and 7 year olds most likely have not committed a mortal sin. And they better understand the concept when they are 9-10years old. I looked this up in the Catechism and it states in 1457 - #58 Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time. What should I do? Can individual parishes change the order of this? Thank you

No individual parishes or Diocese can change this order. It was clearly stated what the proper order of the Sacraments is. You may need to bring this up with the pastor. If nothing changes. Write to the Bishop. You may need to simply just prepare your own child and take them to Reconcilaition at another parish, PRIOR to First Communion.

 

[puzzleannie]

Jkaim:

Thank you all for your advice! I really like the parish, other than this issue. I approached the DRE with my concerns and quoted the Catechism. She told me I could have my son make his confession first, but he would have t attend a weekend retreat with the 4th grade catechists. Not something a 2nd grader would jump up to do. So I think I will just take him for confession privately prior to First Communion. Then he can do it again in 4th grade

you are right on. there are any number of books to help you prepare him for first confession, just let him determine when he is ready, don’t force it. there is plenty of time before first communion. If it were my child I would take him outside the parish. the DRE does not need to be informed. I would certainly make a written complaint to the bishop about the transgression of clear norms. I would also watch like a hawk the materials they are using for first communion preparation, sit in on classes if possible. It is your responsibility as the parent to remedy any deficiencies in what he has been taught. Materials from Our Sunday Visitor osv.com are very reliable, inexpensive sources for you to use at home. They are not the only good ones, but readily available and orthodox and easy for parents to use.

 

[Catholic2003]

You may want to take a look at this thread that also addressed this issue.

 

[C_S_P_B]

This also is a concern of mine in my parish. Two years ago I became Catholic thru RCIA. My parish priest and deacon did not tell me that I needed to make a confession first, so I didn’t. About a year later I went to my priest for confession and stated it was my first. He didn’t blink an eye.

Now I have a 7 year old daughter whe will take first communion next year. I recently got a parish brochure on first confession. It states that it will be a communal penance service with extra priests. Sounds like form 2. Our parish has communal penance (form 3) twice a year. This was explained as fine as long as you have not committed a mortal sin. Although true in a strict sense it leads many catholics to not make use of the NORMAL reconcilliation sacrament (form 1 - individual) ever.

I think it is a bad practice to not introduce children to the NORMAL form. I am trying to take being a father seriously and be a spiritual leader. I certainly cannot abdicate to a priest my responsibility to teach faith to my children. I have other reasons to support my assertion that my parish priest is a strong proponant of Catholic Lite.

For various reasons, changing parishes would be dificult. My children go to the parish school and my wife is very committed to this parish.

I am going to prepare a letter to send to the diocese, but I am interested on opinions on whether I am overreacting.

 

[bear06]

I don’t know if I just missed you all posting this but Redemptionis Sacramentum specifically states:

[87.] The First Communion of children must always be preceded by sacramental confession and absolution

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html

Now unless your diocese has been doing this abuse for 20+ years then they can’t claim it to be customary for that diocese. I’m not sure this would even canonically hold water in this situation anyway but I’d imagine that would be the only leg they could even try to stand on.

I wouldn’t give up yet! Write the pastor and cc the bishop and the Apostolic Nuncio as well as the Congregation for Divine Worship. If your going to leave you might as well leave trying to get things changed for the better!

 

[Timidity]

The relevant canon is 914. And the canon also explicitly states that it’s the parent’s responsibility to make sure it’s done right.

It seems perfectly clear to me children should almost* always have the sacrament of confession prior to their first communion.

*almost, because whenever you make a absolute statement online, someone always chirps in with the exception that makes you wrong

 

[Catholic2003]

C S P B:

This also is a concern of mine in my parish. Two years ago I became Catholic thru RCIA. My parish priest and deacon did not tell me that I needed to make a confession first, so I didn’t. About a year later I went to my priest for confession and stated it was my first. He didn’t blink an eye.

The “first confession” before “first communion” requirement that is being discussed in this thread applies only to cradle Catholics, that is, those who were baptized into the Catholic faith as infants.

For adult converts, this is not applicable. Instead, if the convert is unbaptized, then confession is not needed. Otherwise, if the convert has been previously baptized in another Christian denomination, then confession is required when the convert has committed a mortal sin subsequent to his or her baptism.
C S P B:

Our parish has communal penance (form 3) twice a year. This was explained as fine as long as you have not committed a mortal sin.

Form 2 is a communal penance service, in which the opportunity for individual confession to a priest followed by absolution from that priest. Form 3 is general absolution, in which the priest absolves an entire group of people without first hearing individual confessions. Both forms work to forgive mortal sin. (However, the priest is probably committing a mortal sin himself by administering form 3. General absolution is to be used only in rare exceptional circumstances, such as when a group of soldiers is going into battle and there is no time for individual confession.)

Perhaps you are thinking of the “penitential rite” at the beginning of mass, which is fine as long as you have not committed a mortal sin. This is different than the sacrament of reconciliation.

 

[Catholic2003]

bear06:

Now unless your diocese has been doing this abuse for 20+ years then they can’t claim it to be customary for that diocese. I’m not sure this would even canonically hold water in this situation anyway but I’d imagine that would be the only leg they could even try to stand on.

The canon law justification has nothing to do with custom. It can be found in post #11 of the thread I refered to above.