Confession and Communion

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I am needing some practical help here folks. The other night at RCIA (I am sponsoring this year) I had a very near arguement with some of the team members on the need for Reconciliation (Penance, Confession choose your term) before Communion.

I am pretty sure, in fact I am positive, that you have to be in a state of grace in order to receive and that the only place you can be granted Absolution for grave sin is Confession. Now the individual who I was attempting to have a discussion with made a statement that God came for the sick not the well and that to go to Confession would heal you so why would you need it before you took Communion :confused: Y’all see my problem?

I already have a few issues with this person, she threw a gasket when we (finally) moved the choir to the choir loft (I always wondered why they called it a choir loft, duh) and a few other changes that we are thankfully making. She is obviously a “Spirit of VII” type individual.

The RCIA Director and I had a little chat and I mentioned 1 Cor 11:27. He pretty much told me that God would not be so cruel as to punish someone who was not in a state of grace or who did not fully believe in the Real Presence. sigh

Basically, I am a little concerned. I had thought about changing parishes, even though I really love mine and the priests we have and the people, but there are times where I just cannot take it. Plus, I am loath to leave my sponsee in the hands of potential heretics (strong phrase I know, emotional outburst forgive me). How can I definitivly present my arguement without too much blood shed?
 
Hi Chotock,

Would this, from the Catechism, work?
1415 Anyone who desires to receive Christ in Eucharistic communion must be in the state of grace. Anyone aware of having sinned mortally must not receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance.
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That is pretty clear and succinct.

What do you think?
VC
 
chotock said:
How can I definitivly present my arguement without too much blood shed?
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Will quoting Canon Law help?
Can. 916 Anyone who is conscious of grave sin may not celebrate Mass or receive the Body of the Lord without previously having been to sacramental confession, unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition, which includes the resolve to go to confession as soon as possible.
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tee
 
Since the R.C.I.A. director was no help at all, the next step should be the Priest.
I understand your concern. I would not want to abandon anyone as a sponsor either.
If you can’t get this resolved within the parish, I would call the Bishop’s office next.
If you feel you must move to another parish, please ask the person you are sponsoring to go with you.
 
Thanks guys.

I may have taken it for granted that they would have been familiar with those three excellent sources. They are both wonderful people and both intelligent and compassionate. Perhaps I forget that some people just do not take the time to learn about what they claim to be.
 
chotock said:
Thanks guys.

I may have taken it for granted that they would have been familiar with those three excellent sources. They are both wonderful people and both intelligent and compassionate. Perhaps I forget that some people just do not take the time to learn about what they claim to be.
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RCIA and Teen Life may very well be the last real bastions of truly liberal thought among the laity. Two examples .One RCIA Director I know says that the Church is one of many vehicles to God and that being a Catholic is not required or even desired in many cases. This person also incorporates Native American Spirituality and Buddist chanting as a way to find your inner light, in her program. A second, who is also the director of religious education at a neighboring church says that Satan or the Devil is a myth designed to keep control over the laity, evil does not exist and that the ordained Priesthood is not really necessary as we are all called to be priests. By the way he backs female ordinations, married prists, gay marriage and a return to the pure practices of the early church including small faith based comminities as the only true representation of biblical Chrustianity.

Don’t assume that all RCIA people are good, Catholic or even Christian for that matter.
 
chotock said:
I am needing some practical help here folks. The other night at RCIA (I am sponsoring this year) I had a very near arguement with some of the team members on the need for Reconciliation (Penance, Confession choose your term) before Communion.

I am pretty sure, in fact I am positive, that you have to be in a state of grace in order to receive and that the only place you can be granted Absolution for grave sin is Confession. Now the individual who I was attempting to have a discussion with made a statement that God came for the sick not the well and that to go to Confession would heal you so why would you need it before you took Communion :confused: Y’all see my problem?

I already have a few issues with this person, she threw a gasket when we (finally) moved the choir to the choir loft (I always wondered why they called it a choir loft, duh) and a few other changes that we are thankfully making. She is obviously a “Spirit of VII” type individual.

The RCIA Director and I had a little chat and I mentioned 1 Cor 11:27. He pretty much told me that God would not be so cruel as to punish someone who was not in a state of grace or who did not fully believe in the Real Presence. sigh

Basically, I am a little concerned. I had thought about changing parishes, even though I really love mine and the priests we have and the people, but there are times where I just cannot take it. Plus, I am loath to leave my sponsee in the hands of potential heretics (strong phrase I know, emotional outburst forgive me). How can I definitivly present my arguement without too much blood shed?
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Please review/download/print the latest document from the USCCB: Happy Are Those Who Are Called to His Super at:
usccb.org/dpp/Eucharist.pdf
 
Unfortunately, there are many RCIA leaders who are not orthodox and do not, themselves go to confession. They are usually women, I’ve noticed, who enjoy to social aspect of church. I’ve seen this more than once, over the years. I mentioned confession once to one woman, who is also a “Eucharistic Minister”, and she laughed it off as if I were nuts.
 
chotock said:
I may have taken it for granted that they would have been familiar with those three excellent sources.
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Surely they are familiar (or ought to be).

And if you quote it to them, then they will know that *you *are familiar with them too. What answer will they make then? 😉

tee
 
It may be helpful for those who haven’t come across the notice to read it here:
GENERAL NOTICE
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In order to more easily consolidate RCIA threads now scattered throughout the Forum sections, the Moderator of the Spirituality Forum has kindly agreed to host them there. Please use the Spirituality forum to ask questions, provide feedback, and discuss the various programs and experiences directly related to RCIA.
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Other questions should be placed into separate threads, correctly titled and posted in the appropriate forums.
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Post 8
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=17511
 
if the question is confession of mortal sins as a requirement for worthy reception of communion the answer is yes, has been answered on this thread and the related thread about the US bishop’s recent statement, and this is the right forum. If it is a matter of how RCIA classes are conducted, that is supposed to be on spirituality forum. sorry, just saw mod’s note, so if this gets moved, as general advice for candidates and catechumens, when a problematical statement is made in your class, either find the CCC reference yourself, or ask somebody here, go back to class, respectfully ask for clarification in light of that passage. it is all in the attitude and how you do it, but you are not required to sit and take it without discussion or clarification.
 
Last evening before RCIA, I was having a cookie and a chat with a couple folks when in walks the individual I had my disagreement with. Now, she doesn’t say hello, she doesn’t make any sort of small talk, she just asks “Are you the one who wrtote the letter?”

I had written a letter to our rector about these situations and how we really need to reiterate solid Catholic teaching on Confession and receiving Communion. Apparently, he was sincere when he responded how he would take my words to heart as he used my letter as a stepping off point for his homilies. I missed Mass this weekend due to illness this week so i missed out on it all.

Thank God for email!
 
Why do so many of you get wrapped around the crank with these things? Everybody’s an amateur theologian these days. Way too much time on the internet, I think. Why can’t you just enjoy the traditions, rituals and great beauty of the Catholic Church without micro-analyzing everything? Think what you think, and let others think what they think. It’s not like anyone can ever convince anyone else anyway.

Obviously, we all know the Catechism is clear about not receiving Communion when in a state of mortal sin. However, it’s not so clear as to what actually is a grave mortal sin, since there are 3 important conditions which must be fulfilled for it to be a mortal sin. What is a mortal sin to one may not be to another, depending on the circumstances and individual perception.

What some of you think Catholicism is seems more like Satanism to me, where if you don’t follow very specific, very exacting, very detailed rules and rituals to the letter, and recite incantations exactly right, you break a spell or something.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. RCIA provides a little superficial knowledge.
 
starling said:
Obviously, we all know the Catechism is clear about not receiving Communion when in a state of mortal sin.
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Thats the point Starling. It is obvious, and the issue was that there was an assertion to contrary that needed to be corrected. And it was corrected.

VC
 
I have a few points to make as well:

This is RCIA, these are most likely (except for small children) grown adults…What are the odds that they have gone this long in life without having committed a mortal sin ??? I know we can’t judge others, but, folks, let’s get real here…

(Ignore this if they will be receiving baptism for the first time)

The RCIA instructor or priest should go over an “Examination of Conscience” and the many different sins and also the types of mortal sins one can commit…

What really needs to be stressed in the RCIA class by the priest is that the sacrament of reconciliation is not something we should be AFRAID of, that we should DETEST…Many of us, and I used to be guilty of it myself, have or had the wrong attitude about confession…We fear it !!! Rather, we should be embracing it, fully knowing of the great graces that will come from it !!!

Now, my final note, why on earth would anyone want to REJECT something that will only bring you closer to CHRIST !!!
 
I have always wondered that myself Knight, why would you want to not be closer to Christ! I think what got me in the whole case with the team member is that she didn’t like going to confession, that it made her uncomfortable. I have yet to find someone who enjoys going to confession. I enjoy/love the sacrament, but not the fact I have to go.

Guess its just another encounter with the huggie feelie crowd.
 
starling said:
What is a mortal sin to one may not be to another, depending on the circumstances and individual perception.

.
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Actually Starling there are some sins that are not circumstantial or a matter of perception. The USCCB has recently listed actual sins that qualify as grave matter. Telling someone it is OK to go to communion with a Mortal sin is actually a little more of a big deal that the splitting of hairs example you used about not reciting incantations correctly.

I liken it to a pilot who forgets to turn on the daytime landing lights as opposed to forgeting to extend the landing gear. Both are mistakes but the gravity isn’t even in the same ballpark.
 
Actually Starling there are some sins that are not circumstantial or a matter of perception.
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I didn’t, nor would I say there aren’t. I’m only saying that it’s not always as clearcut as some recent converts are being taught.
 
starling said:
I didn’t, nor would I say there aren’t. I’m only saying that it’s not always as clearcut as some recent converts are being taught.
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Maybe in some cases it is not , but I think in the overwhelming majority of cases it is. Most of us know what mortal sins are and we know when we commit them. Ignoring or trying to somehow justify them as being harmless is what actually happens. It is not that we don’t know, we just think it doesn’t apply to us.

Its not a matter of recent converts being taught things are cut and dried. They are being taught in many instances that virtually everything is all right and excusable.
 
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