Confession and Temporal Punishment

[sloth]

I have 2 questions regarding Confession and Temporal Punishment.

1, Does Confession remove all of the Temporal Punishment for the confessed sins?

1. Do the things that the priest tells you to do at the end of confession work to remove the temporal punishment of the mortal sins committed? In other words is that why he tells you to do them so that you will have the Temporal Punishment removed?

 

[Elizium23]

1. No.
2. Yes, but there is no real guarantee that it will remove ALL the punishment. This is why we have partial and plenary indulgences.

 

[sloth]

I find Temporal Punishment to be a pretty awesome concept.

so basically because God is just, even though are sins are forgiven. there must be some reprimand for the sins committed.

we know that there is Temporal Punishment because of sacred scripture but if there wasn’t Temporal Punishment nothing bad would ever happen to us, including death, right?

So when we do an indulgence for a sin we are removing the Temporal Punishment for that sin, but we can still experience Temporal Punishment from another sin right?

 

[Ad_Orientem]

So when we do an indulgence for a sin we are removing the Temporal Punishment for that sin, but we can still experience Temporal Punishment from another sin right?

I think that may have been the case in the early Middle Ages, but to my understanding indulgences today are applied to sins generally, rather than to this or that sin only. It is certainly the case with plenary indulgences, which wipe out all temporal punishment whatsoever (as does baptism) – up to that point. So yeah, if you wipe the slate clean and then commit a sin, you have temporal punishment to take care of once again.

But prescribed penances and indulgences are by no means the only ways to make reparation to God. Performing the duties of our state in life, bearing trials patiently, performing good works, heartfelt prayers, going to Mass with devotion, and receiving the sacraments devoutly also help atone for past sins–whether our own sins or those of others, if we so choose. There are also voluntary penances – though this should be done with prudence, and preferably under the guidance of a good spiritual director, lest we harm ourselves or become prideful.

 

[sloth]

It is somewhat hard to wrap my brain around temporal punishment and indulgences.

So when we go to confession our sin is removed, we are placed back into a state of grace and are “saved”.

to remove the punishment for the sin we would perform an indulgence so that the temporal punishment for our sins are removed.

what if something bad happens to us after we perform a plenary indulgence though? would that mean that this bad thing that happens to us is not coming from God?

I somehow in vision God tucking us “under his wing” protecting us from anything bad happening to us from the result of eliminating our temporal punishment.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

So when we go to confession our sin is removed, we are placed back into a state of grace and are “saved”.

If you were in mortal sin, made a good confession, and received absolution, then yes.

to remove the punishment for the sin we would perform an indulgence so that the temporal punishment for our sins are removed.

As stated above, that’s only one of the means at our disposal, and not even the most important. We should be regularly praying, doing penance, receiving the sacraments, performing good works, etc.

what if something bad happens to us after we perform a plenary indulgence though? would that mean that this bad thing that happens to us is not coming from God?

What do you mean by “something bad”? Do you mean falling into mortal sin, or just something hard to bear, or what?

I somehow in vision God tucking us “under his wing” protecting us from anything bad happening to us from the result of eliminating our temporal punishment.

Why would you think that? Jesus was without sin, and yet went to Calvary–and says we must do the same. Yes, God looks after us and prevents many bad things which would be too much for us to bear, but he also knows we will make no progress in the spiritual life if everything comes easy.

 

[sloth]

If you were in mortal sin, made a good confession, and received absolution, then yes.

As stated above, that’s only one of the means at our disposal, and not even the most important. We should be regularly praying, doing penance, receiving the sacraments, performing good works, etc.

What do you mean by “something bad”? Do you mean falling into mortal sin, or just something hard to bear, or what?

Why would you think that? Jesus was without sin, and yet went to Calvary–and says we must do the same. Yes, God looks after us and prevents many bad things which would be too much for us to bear, but he also knows we will make no progress in the spiritual life if everything comes easy.

One of the examples that is given for temporal punishment is 2 samual 12:13-14

‘The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin; you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die’"
catholic.com/tracts/primer-on-indulgences

it would seem like if he removed his temporal punishment then his child would live.

Since Temporal punishment can affect you in this life and in the afterlife. it would seem like if one remove his temporal punishment then God would not punish them for anything. making them “immune” from bad things happening to them like getting in a car wreck, having a heart attack etc.
but once you sin you have the ability to have Temporal punishment affect you again.

I know I’m dwelling on a part of the faith that isn’t really that important to begin with in the long run. I just want a firm understanding about it.
The Church hasn’t declared how long purgatory actually is, for all we know it could be like 5 milliseconds. It makes that perfect since to me to have a Purgatorial state, and that we can do things to aid in the purification of the souls in Purgatory; especially after reading some of 2nd Maccabees…

 

[Ad_Orientem]

In David’s time there weren’t any plenary indulgences. God may have remitted some of David’s temporal punishment, but obviously he did not remit all of it.

Remember that the punishment due to sin is something we deserve. We have no right to have any of it taken away, let alone all of it.

And you seem to be equating “bad things that happen to us” with punishment for our sins, but they are not always the same (Jn. 9:1-3). God may allow something bad to happen, for example, to keep us humble, to forestall a bad choice we would have made, or to prevent us from falling away. Why he allows evil is a mystery, but we know it’s ultimately for the good of those that love him (Rom. 8:28).

 

[sloth]

In David’s time there weren’t any plenary indulgences. God may have remitted some of David’s temporal punishment, but obviously he did not remit all of it.

Remember that the punishment due to sin is something we deserve. We have no right to have any of it taken away, let alone all of it.

And you seem to be equating “bad things that happen to us” with punishment for our sins, but they are not always the same (Jn. 9:1-3). God may allow something bad to happen, for example, to keep us humble, to forestall a bad choice we would have made, or to prevent us from falling away. Why he allows evil is a mystery, but we know it’s ultimately for the good of those that love him (Rom. 8:28).

This makes sense, despite the fact that we have the ability to remove all of our temporal punishment, we cannot know why God allows/does things.

the catechism puts it well and it goes along with what you were saying.

"These two punishments (eternal and temporal) must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin."1472 CCC

So it isn’t God condemning us for the sin, we are condemning ourselves by our own sins.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

…] 1472 CCC
So it isn’t God condemning us for the sin, we are condemning ourselves by our own sins.

I’m not sure what the Catechism means in no. 1472, but in light of Scripture and Magisterial teaching, I don’t think your interpretation taken literally can be correct (though it might be true in a sense).

Scripture throughout refers to God as Judge (e.g. Ps. 9:9 DRV), and Christ speaks many times of the damned being “cast” into hell (e.g. Mt. 8:12, 13:42, Lk. 12:5, etc.). The Council of Florence (Sess. VI) defined that “the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished…”

True, we bring it on ourselves, but make no mistake, it is a punishment. As is purgatory–though the latter is primarily a place of cleansing.

 

[Vico]

One of the examples that is given for temporal punishment is 2 samual 12:13-14

‘The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin; you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die’"
catholic.com/tracts/primer-on-indulgences

it would seem like if he removed his temporal punishment then his child would live.

Since Temporal punishment can affect you in this life and in the afterlife. it would seem like if one remove his temporal punishment then God would not punish them for anything. making them “immune” from bad things happening to them like getting in a car wreck, having a heart attack etc.
but once you sin you have the ability to have Temporal punishment affect you again.

I know I’m dwelling on a part of the faith that isn’t really that important to begin with in the long run. I just want a firm understanding about it.
The Church hasn’t declared how long purgatory actually is, for all we know it could be like 5 milliseconds. It makes that perfect since to me to have a Purgatorial state, and that we can do things to aid in the purification of the souls in Purgatory; especially after reading some of 2nd Maccabees…

I read in the Catechism that “unhealthy attachment to creatures” must be purified to free one from “temporal punishment”. With a plenary indulgence there must be freedom from all attachment to sin. It is logical that this would make it plenary. Yet, there are still consequences from sin other than those arising from attachment, and some consequences come from the fallen state which is not from personal sin.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

And you seem to be equating “bad things that happen to us” with punishment for our sins, but they are not always the same (Jn. 9:1-3). God may allow something bad to happen, for example, to keep us humble, to forestall a bad choice we would have made, or to prevent us from falling away. Why he allows evil is a mystery, but we know it’s ultimately for the good of those that love him (Rom. 8:28).

Some might push this even further to say that God allows us to suffer evil as a reward for our goodness, insofar as the suffering enables us to increase in grace. This at least is one way to read Thomas’s ST I-II.114.10, esp. ad 3: “Temporal evils are imposed as a punishment on the wicked, inasmuch as they are not thereby helped to reach life everlasting. But to the just who are aided by these evils they are not punishments but medicines as stated above (Question 87, Article 8)”