Confession: are our sins always forgiven?

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chagel_333

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The book “The Essential Catholic Survival Guide” written by the staff of Catholic answers says on the bottom of page 208

“Jesus paid the price for our sins before God, he did not relieve our obligation to repair what we have done. They fully acknowledge that if you steal someones car, you have to give it back; it isnt wnough just to repent. Gods forgiveness (and man’s!) Does not inclide letting you keep the stolen car.”

Question:
If the person goes to confession without yet returning the car is he forgiven? If the priest give him a penance (eg. 3 our fathers), that he does and yet he does not return the car (before or after confession) are they forgiven?
 
chagel_333 said:
Question:
If the person goes to confession without yet returning the car is he forgiven? If the priest give him a penance (eg. 3 our fathers), that he does and yet he does not return the car (before or after confession) are they forgiven?
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If you told a priest you stole a car he would ask you as part of your penance to to return it, even turn yourself in. I can only see a very lax priest wouldn’t I’d wager.
 
Well lets entertain the fact that it was a lax priest. Are they forgiven?
 
Sins, once forgiven are gone. Period.
But…what of the penance?
The Lord saith: “You can pay Me now, or pay me later.”
 
Anrakyr said:
even turn yourself in.
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A priest cannot require this as a condition of absolution or anything else that would put you in a position of being forced to reveal your sins to another. That said, if you were unwilling to do this, it might be a sign that you weren’t truly repentant, so absolution could be withheld.
 
The penance described from the priest must be done. If not the sin is retained.
 
A quote again from the book “the essential Catholic survival guide” page 210 regardinf penance.

“In the early Church, penances were sometimes severe. For serious sins, such as appstasy, murder, and abortion, the penances could stretch over years…”
 
Why cant the priest prescribe as a penance of speaking to the other? The other is injured and an explaination is deserved.
 
chagel_333 said:
Why cant the priest prescribe as a penance of speaking to the other? The other is injured and an explaination is deserved.
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This violates the seal of confession. The priest can encourage it and advise regarding such, but he cannot require it.
 
chagel_333 said:
The penance described from the priest must be done. If not the sin is retained.
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That’s not true. The sin is erased when the priest grants absolution (“I absolve you…”) , provided that the person is truly repentant and has not made a bad confession (for example, lied to the priest or said he was repentant when internally he was not). If the person has made a bad confession, then the absolution is not effective.

Not doing the assigned penance might be an additional separate sin, or it might not. If the priest tells you to say certain prayers for penance and you genuinely forget to say them, you’re not somehow still in sin, nor have you committed a new sin. But if you willfully refuse to do the penance, you’ve committed a new sin of willfulness and disobedience and pride. Note that if your confession was good, your past sins are already gone (absolved).

The priest could choose to withhold absolution if a person did not return stolen goods or otherwise make restitution, on the basis that the person was not truly repentant. In that case the restitution wouldn’t be a penance, rather it would be an action showing repentance.
 
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chagel_333 said:
A quote again from the book “the essential Catholic survival guide” page 210 regardinf penance.

“In the early Church, penances were sometimes severe. For serious sins, such as appstasy, murder, and abortion, the penances could stretch over years…”
Click to expand...
Irrelevant to the current discussion of confession nowadays.

A priest could if he wanted give someone a penance that took a year today. It’s highly unlikely he would. But the penance nowadays is not given as a condition to allow someone to be admitted back into the Church. We also confess more frequently today (for instance perhaps once every 2 months or once a year) whereas in the early Church a confession was generally made just once or twice, such as once when you entered the church and confessed all you’d done in the past, or when you had apostatized for a while and then came back.
 
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No, a priest cannot require you to reveal your sins to any other person.
 
This is not correct.

Forgiveness is forgiveness and it does not depend on finishing your penance. Now, if you refuse to do the penance for a selfish reason, that in itself may be another sin.
 
Anrakyr said:
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chagel_333:
Question:
If the person goes to confession without yet returning the car is he forgiven? If the priest give him a penance (eg. 3 our fathers), that he does and yet he does not return the car (before or after confession) are they forgiven?
Click to expand...
If you told a priest you stole a car he would ask you as part of your penance to to return it, even turn yourself in. I can only see a very lax priest wouldn’t I’d wager.
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Incorrect on both counts. Returning the stolen property is not imposed as a penance; it is a moral requirement to make restitution for stolen property. A penance is imposed on top of that. To be forgiven, one must have the intention to make restitution, if it is still possible, and the priest will confirm that.

Now that said, it is not required to return the property face to face. One can leave it anonymously for the owner or police to find, or call in an “anonymous” tip. Under no circumstances is the thief required to reveal himself.

And of course, here, as with any other circumstance, one is never bound to the impossible. If one sold the car to the scrap heap, then there is no more car to return. If possible, he can make financial restitution, but if even that or any other form of restitution is not possible, then it’s not possible. Tell Father this and he will either modify the penance accordingly or suggest an alternative, such as making a certain contribution to a suitable charity.

And has already been said, here and multiple times over, a priest can never ever require anyone to turn himself into the police. This violates the seal of the confessional.
 
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porthos11 said:
This violates the seal of the confessional.
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How? The penitent can say whatever he wants about his own confession. Having to turn himself in does revel his confession just that he felt guilty and sought to make amends.
 
Anrakyr said:
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porthos11:
This violates the seal of the confessional.
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How? The penitent can say whatever he wants about his own confession. Having to turn himself in does revel his confession just that he felt guilty and sought to make amends.
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That a penitent is free to talk about his confession is a far cry from being required to do so. If a priest binds a penitent to turn himself in, he is violating the seal indirectly, because no penitent should ever be compelled to tell anyone.

this has been beaten again and again and again, and the priests here have confirmed repeatedly: a priest may NEVER REQUIRE anyone to reveal his sin to anyone but to his confessor.

And making amends and restitution does not require one to suffer criminal penalties. It can be done through prayer and almsgiving. And in most civilized countries, there is a right against self-incrimination.
 
porthos11 - how do I private message you? I would like to discuss something privately unrelated to this thread that you have posted previously (thread now closed) - I’m new to the forum and have exhausted all attempts to find where to do this!
 
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