Confession: Have consistently failed to state # of times sins were committed

[Ana_v]

I came back to the Church in April of 2011, and I go to confession regularly (every 2-3 weeks). In my confessions, I have consistently forgotten to state the number of times I committed the sins. It simply doesn’t occur to me, especially when the things which I am confessing are difficult and involved issues (my emotion interferes, and thought process is not as neat and ordered as one would otherwise hope it to be).

Does this mean all those confessions were invalid? Yesterday I went to confession, and I included the mention of something horribly despicable I did as a child (a memory which was provoked by a news article that I recently read). Then I went to confession again today because I had unbearable anxiety, having doubted whether I sufficiently described the sin (it’s not one which I was able to identify with a single word, thus I resorted to attempted description). And again, I did not identify the sin by type (though it was my intention to, I wanted to at least identify the commandment which it pertained to, but I started crying right as I was getting ready to narrate and that messed up my thought process), but I think I was more direct than yesterday.

I mention this because I am very discouraged at the thought of going through all of this again because I have failed of state the number of times I have sinned when I’ve gone to confession.

This website is what gives the impression that stated number of times is necessary for valid confession:

All mortal sins and the approximate number of times they were committed must be confessed for a valid confession

saintaquinas.com/howto_confess.html

1. I am confused as to the law concerning obligatory confession of forgotten sins. Does this apply to any and all grave, unconfessed sins committed after baptism, that one is conscious of, or only those that one has committed since the last confession?

“Which sins must be confessed? The penitent is obliged to confess, in kind and number, all mortal sins that the penitent can remember, after diligent examination of conscience, committed after baptism, and not yet forgiven in confession. If you have committed a particular kind of sin often, tell the confessor the kind of sin and generally how often you committed that sin. You do not need to give details about each sin, but you must include anything that makes the sin more serious.”

catholicplanet.com/information/Confession-instruction.pdf

" tell the priest the mortal sins you have committed since your last confession."

saintaquinas.com/howto_confess.html

(emphasis mine)

1. Same exact question as above, with one change: replace “grave” with “mortal” (apparently, Canon law uses “grave” when speaking of the type of sins we are required to confess, though other Catholic websites use “mortal” … and all this time I’ve thought there was a nuanced difference between the two words … that all mortal sins are grave, but not all grave sins are mortal.)

Very distressed right now, clarifications would be much appreciated, especially if they cite authoritative sources.

 

[kelsei1996]

I had this same problem. My priest says it’s okay if you forget some sins, they’re still forgiven, you should just try to remember them the next time you go to confession. Hope that helps.

 

[George_Stegmeir]

I, too was away from the Church for many years. If you made a general confession when you returned -which is most likely- and you received absolution, your sins are forgiven.
Please do not distress yourself mentally about this. All too often those of us who have been away from the sacraments for years, tend to be over scrupulous about Confession.
My best recommendation for you is to consult a priest about this. Simply go to, or telephone the rectory of a nearby Catholic Church and make an appointment to see a priest. Explain exactly what you wrote about on this thread. You will be amazed at how welcoming he will be.
With due respect to this forum and its participants, by talking with a priest you will get far better results and peace of mind than you can possibly get on any internet forum.

 

[R_C]

Did the confessor every say anything? Otherwise I wouldn’t worry about past confessions, and for the future, just do mention kind and number. My understanding is that unless we’re deceiving the priest, the confession is valid.

In the 1983 Code of Canon Law we read:

Canon 988 – §1. A member of the Christian faithful is obliged to confess in kind and number all serious sins committed after baptism and not yet directly remitted through the keys of the Church nor acknowledged in individual confession, for which one is conscious after diligent examination of conscience.
§2. It is to be recommended to the Christian faithful that venial sins also be confessed.

The Council of Trent stated pretty clearly that

"To obtain the saving remedy of the sacrament of penance, according to the plan of our merciful God, the faithful must confess to a priest each and every grave sin that they remember after a diligent examination of conscience" (cf. sess. XIV de poenitentia cc. 7-8: COD 712).

I would focus, for future reference, in mentioning in kind and number all sins that you consider worse than venial since the last confession, and for your own peace of mind maybe you want to mention that you ignored the fact that this had to be done, thus you never did it (though this, as far as I can tell, is no sin…but let the confessor know anyways).

My understanding is that “if you do your best the sins you don’t remember or confess (through no fault of your own) are also indirectly remitted.” So, unless you purposely chose not to reveal the kind or number, I don’t think you have to mention any sins already confessed.

Ideall we want to begin by saying: Bless me father, for I have sinned. My last confession was ___ days,weeks,months,years ago. …] And in the end we can add: For these and all the sins of my past life I am truly sorry.

Source for most of my post: Fr. Z.

I hope that helps.

P.s.: I do suggest that you learn to see Reconciliation as a wonderful encounter between the Father and the son, a windows between heaven and earth, a place of love and peace. The Lord is infinitely merciful towards penitents, and, as St. Thomas Aquinas brilliantly wrote, Deus non alligatur Sacramentis, meaning that while we are tied to the Sacraments as the ordinary means, God surely isn’t! Remember that even a contrition of charity (rather than of fear) with firm resolution to confess soon can suffice to move Christ to already forgive our mortal sins. I don’t think we can fully comprehend how forgiving the Beloved is

 

[Bookcat]

First off I do not recommend “the Catholic Planet” as a reliable source for Catholic information …but rather would suggest seeking other sources.

 

[Bookcat]

Honestly forgetting to confess the number of mortal sins

(venial sins need not be even confessed necessarily -though very recommended --at least some…let alone numbers given)

-is well –forgetting to do so. Hiding such is a different story. Assuming one was contrite and amended and intending to confess all mortal sins --and just forgot to say some —
*
they are absolved indirectly. *

One is to confess then in the next confession. Of course ones memory could honestly slip again despite ones intent etc to remember.

Yes one is to confess all forgotten post -baptismal mortal sins (well that is those one remembers!..sometimes we may forget something forever…). So if one remembers say that one murdered ones 5th grade teacher…and that it was mortal (not only grave matter but full knowledge and deliberate consent) and not confessed --one is to confess it.

(Now I will note for some out there – who struggle with scruples – they may be in a different boat in some cases. For some seek to confess all sorts of un-needful things --they need a regular confessor who can guide them)

One does not have to identify the commandment --but rather for mortal sins one needs to confess the species (even if one does not use the technical name) jimmyakin.com/2007/03/specific_confes.html (Jimmy Akin of Catholic Answers).

As to forgotten mortal sins: jimmyakin.com/2006/09/a_reader_writes_1.html

As to “grave sin” “mortal sin” and “serious sin” they are different terms for the same sin. All are synonyms. Some can get confused there…but the terms are used interchangably by the Church. So when Canon Law states one must confess all grave sins --well what is meant is that which was committed (grave matter, full knowledge and deliberate consent). Hence all mortal sins (grave sins, serious sins -they all mean the same with a bit different emphasis) are to be confessed.

One can address this difficulty with a Priest in confession – and remedy what may be missing etc etc. You could make an appointment and perhaps (perhaps I say not must) make some notes --perhaps in code --to refer to and then destroy the list.

 

[Bookcat]

This is one way I explain things:

Mortal sin = Serious sin =Grave sin

The Church uses these terms in two senses (and objective if you will and a subjective). And in both senses the terms grave sin, mortal sin, and serious sin are interchangeable.

Here are the two senses:

1. Objective sense

Murder is a grave sin.
Murder is a serious sin.
Murder is a mortal sin.

(all three mean the same)

this is one way the Church use the term. Talking about the ‘moral object’ of the act or the ‘objective kind of sin’. Referring to the object itself. Like if I said…do not commit murder for that is a mortal sin.

Then there is this way…

1. Subjective sense…

I committed the grave sin of Murder
I committed the serious sin of Murder
I committed the mortal sin of Murder

(all three mean the same)

This is speaking of when the thing I committed is grave matter …done with full knowledge and deliberate (complete) consent.

Both are true. Both are ways the terms get used in Church documents

---

When speaking with someone as to what a mortal (etc) sin is…that is when it is committed. I prefer to use the language of “grave matter”. But it is still true that the thing itself can be said to be “a mortal sin” in the sense that murder is a mortal sin in itself…objectively.

Ordinarily I tell people “such and such is a grave matter” for mortal sin and if one does it with full knowledge and complete consent…then one commits a mortal sin. But I could simply say murder is a mortal sin.

 

[englishredrose]

If you were doing it wrong the Priest would have guided you. The priest may feel there is no such thing as right or wrong in confession and handle with care whatever you say and deal with that concern rather than what you not said. Last time at confession I accidently starting to say the closing prayer that he normally does and came to a hault when I realised it. He just gently laughed explaining at the same time its just a prayer and allowed me to finish it, only I didn’t and he just quietly ended what I hadn’t already said. I been going to confession all my church life 25 years.

If in further doubt ring your priest up and ask him so he can put your mind at rest.

 

[Bookcat]

The priest may feel there is no such thing as right or wrong in confession and handle with care whatever you say and deal with that concern rather than what you not said. Last time at confession I accidently starting to say the closing prayer that he normally does and came to a hault when I realised it. He just gently laughed explaining at the same time its just a prayer and allowed me to finish it, only I didn’t and he just quietly ended what I hadn’t already said. I been going to confession all my church life 25 years.

If in further doubt ring your priest up and ask him so he can put your mind at rest.

It is to be noted that this is coming from the personal experience of a fellow Christian who is an Anglican. It would not reflect how we approach Confession in this area.

But yes the OP should bring the things they posted about up in confession and the Priest can help them.

 

[englishredrose]

It is to be noted that this is coming from the personal experience of a fellow Christian who is an Anglican. It would not reflect how we approach Confession in this area. pot kettle and black springs to mind when I read how you have identified your own religion here think about what you are saying yourself …

But yes the OP should bring the things they posted about up in confession and the Priest can help them.

 

[LICath]

I had been away from the church for over 30 years when I returned to the church and confession. I too did not mention the number of times I committed the sin but only the sin itself. After confession I also was reading that in order for it to be a valid confession you must state in number and kind. I phoned the priest and discussed this with him. He assured me that after being away from the church for awhile that they really don’t expect anyone to remember the number of times that a sin was committed. What was was important was that after being away for over 30 years I returned and gave a good confession ( examination of conscience).

 

[catholictiger]

if you are sorry for the sins that you committed and seek repentance from God through confession your sins are forgiven.

there really isn’t any necessary action by the penitent other then being sorry and truthfully confessing his sins.

remember for a sacrament to be valid it needs form (I absolve you) matter (the penitent or sin not sure) and intent (person is sorry for what he did)

There is even the possibility for a valid confession without having to confess your sins, but this would only be allowed in extreme conditions. For example a catholic firefighter can have a valid confession with general absolution if his life is in immediate danger for going into a building with an out of control fire. If he survives he must go to confession after.

if the number of times you confess something is necessary for the forgiveness of sin general absolution would be impossible.

note:confessing the number of times you have done a sin is good because a priest can give you a better penance which is necessary to pay the debt of punishment. In order to have the debt of punishment forgiven a person must mention that sin in confession, if he/she forgets to mention a sin committed that sin is forgiven but you still have to pay the punishment for that sin.

 

[Bookcat]

I had been away from the church for over 30 years when I returned to the church and confession. I too did not mention the number of times I committed the sin but only the sin itself. After confession I also was reading that in order for it to be a valid confession you must state in number and kind. I phoned the priest and discussed this with him. He assured me that after being away from the church for awhile that they really don’t expect anyone to remember the number of times that a sin was committed. What was was important was that after being away for over 30 years I returned and gave a good confession ( examination of conscience).

The Priest was right in that practically we do not expect one who was away for 30 years to always remember the exact number –

but they ARE obliged to confess according to what they do recall after the examination of conscience – which may be that they will have to approximate where they do not know how many – such as 15-20x, maybe 2x a month for thirty years, at least 50 or so, or even if need be more broadly like --many times, alot, or a few times.

Ordinarily one who has honestly omitted the number due to say not having a clue --is to supply the missing numbers in confession once they realize (for mortal sins only of course).

If I lied under oath in court say 15 times and only confess “Perjury” I have only confessed Perjury 1x. The others have not been submitted directly to the keys in confession.

Now our memories can fail us – we are not Mr. Spock -it was 56.2356 times …we are to proceed in humano modo (in a human way) not in a Vulcan way (vulcanus modo).

God understands we may forget and even never remember at all even…but are contrite and amended and have sought to confess them all.

 

[Bookcat]

if the number of times you confess something is necessary for the forgiveness of sin general absolution would be impossible.

note:confessing the number of times you have done a sin is good because a priest can give you a better penance which is necessary to pay the debt of punishment. In order to have the debt of punishment forgiven a person must mention that sin in confession, if he/she forgets to mention a sin committed that sin is forgiven but you still have to pay the punishment for that sin.

There is an obligation to confess all mortal sins in number and kind (and circumstance that changes the kind …like it was your brother you murdered).

It is not just in order to give a better penance but is part of the nature of the Sacrament.

If I commit murder 3x and I repent --and goto confession and in my nervousness I forget to say “3x” but only “I committed murder” --in the next confession (if I realize this happened) I need to confess it was three murders …for two of em where not confessed.

If one forgets a mortal sin --ordinarily they are to confess it in the next confession.

jimmyakin.com/2006/09/a_reader_writes_1.html

(Now I will note for some out there – who struggle with scruples – they may be in a different boat in some cases. For some seek to confess all sorts of un-needful things --they need a regular confessor who can guide them)

 

[Ana_v]

[edited]

I am now afraid of the possibility that some of my confessions have been invalid due to ignorance (and if so, how do I confess this? In other words, what category of sin does this fall under?)

I was under the impression that the only sins which we are obliged to confess are all remembered mortal sins that we have committed since the time of our last confession + any mortal sins we intended to confess at our last confession but forgot to do so.

It has recently come to my attention that it is our obligation to confess all remembered mortal sins that we have committed during our post-baptismal lives (that have not been previously confessed).

While I cannot at this moment think of an example, it is probable or at least possible that there were confession-cases, in which a mortal or grave sin of my distant past came to mind, either triggered or spontaneously, that I omitted believing I was not obliged to confess it.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

Just make a general confession since your last known valid confession.

 

[TheReYUI]

If you didn’t know that you had to confess them then it doesn’t matter, just be sure to confess all sins that you remember next confession.

 

[bzkoss236]

Obligation doesn’t mean absolutely required. Obligation means do to the best of your ability. God knows our memory is limited, and so we won’t be able to remember every single time we sinned, especially if it is your first confession, or your first confession in a long time. Just do your best to remember, maybe give a range, and then do your best to avoid those sins in the future.

 

[runningdude]

Contrition is needed. You are obviously contrite. Do not worry.

 

[George_Stegmeir]

I don’t know how old you are, but that doesn’t really matter. Try to make an appointment with a priest at your parish, or at a nearby Catholic Church rectory. Their office hours are usually 9 AM to 4 or 5 PM. Monday through Friday.
All you have to do is walk in and talk with the secretary there. You don’t have to tell her what you want to see a priest about. If asked, just say it’s personal.
Tell the priest exactly what you have asked here and tell him what your concerns are now and in the future.
You will get a lot of relief from what he tells you. Much better than you can get on any internet site.