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skysix42
Guest
Can a Roman Catholic go to confession to a Ukranian Catholic priest?
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OutinChgoburbs
Guest
And vice versa, a Ukrainian Rite Catholic may go to a Latin Rite priest!! Just don’t expect the same rite, ie, the same formula. It’s close (I know a Latin priest, a Benedictine, who does Ukrainian/ Byzantine), but not the same.
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Claire_from_DE
Guest
How is it different? Could a person go in and have the priest help him through it like in the Latin rite?
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GandalfTheWhite
Guest
Actually, I think you will find a greater chance of getting help in the Byzantine parish because their confessions are generally more interactive and you are going to be asked a lot of questions so that they can help you with your problems. Their confessions are also longer.
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Chris_McAvoy
Guest
"Penance, or Holy Confession as it is usually called, in the Eastern Orthodox Church has more in common with a psychiatric session than it does with the sacramental equivalents of other Christian Traditions. In Roman Catholicism, the goal of the sacrament of Penance is reconciliation with God, through means of justification. However, in Orthodoxy, the intention of the sacramental mystery of Holy Confession is to provide reconciliation with God, but through means of healing.
Similar to the Eastern Catholic Churches, in the Eastern Orthodox Church there are no confessionals. Traditionally the confessant also stands or kneels before either the Icon of Christ the Teacher (to the viewers’ right of the Royal Door) or in front of an Icon of Christ, or a Crucifix. This is to show humility before the whole church and before Christ. Once they are ready to start, the priest says, “Blessed is our God, always, now and for evermore,” reads the Trisagion Prayers and the 51st Psalm (50th Psalm in the Septuagint)."
Substitute Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy and you have a good description on wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penance
"Within the Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches, it is understood that the Mystery of confession and repentance has more to do with the spiritual development of the individual and much less to do with purification. Sin is not seen as a stain on the soul, but rather a mistake that needs correction.
In general, the Eastern Christian chooses an individual to trust as his or her spiritual guide. In most cases this is the parish priest but may, in fact, be any individual, male or female, who has received permission from a bishop to hear confessions. This person is often referred to as one’s spiritual father or mother. Once chosen, the individual turns to his spiritual guide for advice on his or her spiritual development, confessing sins, and asking advice. Eastern Christians tend to confess only to this individual and the intimacy created by this bond makes the spiritual guide the most qualified in dealing with the person, so much so, that no one can override what a spiritual guide tells his or her charges. What is confessed to one’s spiritual guide is protected by the same seal as would be any priest hearing a confession.
In general practice, after one confesses to one’s spiritual guide, the parish priest (Who may or may not have heard the confession but canonically should have) covers the head of the person with his Epitrachelion (Stole) and reads the prayers of repentance, asking God to forgive the transgression of the individual. It is highly possible that the person confesses his sins to his spiritual guide on a regular basis but only seeks out the priest to read the prayer before communing.
In some Eastern Catholic Churches, clergy make their confession in the sanctuary, in public view but quietly."
This describes more details of the procedure as well:
byzantines.net/mysteries/confession-examination.htm
The Absolution prayer used in most Byzantine Churches is:
"The Lord God through Nathan the prophet forgave David his sins, and the adulteress weeping at his feet, and Peter shedding bitter tears for his betrayal, and the Publican and the Prodigal son. May this same Lord and God through me a sinner, forgive you, N., all the sins of your life in this world and in the world to come. And may he make you stand uncondemned at his awesome tribunal for He is blessed for ever and ever. Amen.
And the priest may add the following:
May our Lord and God Jesus-Christ who gave his holy apostles the command to retain or forgive the sins of mankind forgive you, N., from on high all your sins. I, his unworthy servant, who have received from these apostles the mandate to do the same, absolve you from all the sins of your life in the name of Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
And the priest may add:
Go in peace and do not be disturbed by the evil you have done.
I believe that some Eastern Orthodox Churches actually regard the form of absolution prayer used in the Latin Church in the past as representing some form of heresy or poor choice of words in that it alludes too much to the priest himself forgiving ones sins, for example “and I an unworthy sinner remit, pardon, and absolve all your sins …” (which is actually used in some russian versions under latin influence) as opposed to Christ forgiving ones sins and the priest being Christs witness. I think this is an interesting idea and would like to closely investigate the history of the absolution prayer and whether this disagreement holds any water.
Similar to the Eastern Catholic Churches, in the Eastern Orthodox Church there are no confessionals. Traditionally the confessant also stands or kneels before either the Icon of Christ the Teacher (to the viewers’ right of the Royal Door) or in front of an Icon of Christ, or a Crucifix. This is to show humility before the whole church and before Christ. Once they are ready to start, the priest says, “Blessed is our God, always, now and for evermore,” reads the Trisagion Prayers and the 51st Psalm (50th Psalm in the Septuagint)."
Substitute Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy and you have a good description on wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penance
"Within the Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches, it is understood that the Mystery of confession and repentance has more to do with the spiritual development of the individual and much less to do with purification. Sin is not seen as a stain on the soul, but rather a mistake that needs correction.
In general, the Eastern Christian chooses an individual to trust as his or her spiritual guide. In most cases this is the parish priest but may, in fact, be any individual, male or female, who has received permission from a bishop to hear confessions. This person is often referred to as one’s spiritual father or mother. Once chosen, the individual turns to his spiritual guide for advice on his or her spiritual development, confessing sins, and asking advice. Eastern Christians tend to confess only to this individual and the intimacy created by this bond makes the spiritual guide the most qualified in dealing with the person, so much so, that no one can override what a spiritual guide tells his or her charges. What is confessed to one’s spiritual guide is protected by the same seal as would be any priest hearing a confession.
In general practice, after one confesses to one’s spiritual guide, the parish priest (Who may or may not have heard the confession but canonically should have) covers the head of the person with his Epitrachelion (Stole) and reads the prayers of repentance, asking God to forgive the transgression of the individual. It is highly possible that the person confesses his sins to his spiritual guide on a regular basis but only seeks out the priest to read the prayer before communing.
In some Eastern Catholic Churches, clergy make their confession in the sanctuary, in public view but quietly."
This describes more details of the procedure as well:
byzantines.net/mysteries/confession-examination.htm
The Absolution prayer used in most Byzantine Churches is:
"The Lord God through Nathan the prophet forgave David his sins, and the adulteress weeping at his feet, and Peter shedding bitter tears for his betrayal, and the Publican and the Prodigal son. May this same Lord and God through me a sinner, forgive you, N., all the sins of your life in this world and in the world to come. And may he make you stand uncondemned at his awesome tribunal for He is blessed for ever and ever. Amen.
And the priest may add the following:
May our Lord and God Jesus-Christ who gave his holy apostles the command to retain or forgive the sins of mankind forgive you, N., from on high all your sins. I, his unworthy servant, who have received from these apostles the mandate to do the same, absolve you from all the sins of your life in the name of Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
And the priest may add:
Go in peace and do not be disturbed by the evil you have done.
I believe that some Eastern Orthodox Churches actually regard the form of absolution prayer used in the Latin Church in the past as representing some form of heresy or poor choice of words in that it alludes too much to the priest himself forgiving ones sins, for example “and I an unworthy sinner remit, pardon, and absolve all your sins …” (which is actually used in some russian versions under latin influence) as opposed to Christ forgiving ones sins and the priest being Christs witness. I think this is an interesting idea and would like to closely investigate the history of the absolution prayer and whether this disagreement holds any water.
D
Diak
Guest
“Psychiatric session”? Yet another reason to avoid Wikipedia.
It is a Holy Mystery, a real Sacrament, and the absolution in the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church is every bit as efficacious as any other Rite of the Catholic Church.
In the Ukrainian Catholic usage there is generally a “longer” and “shorter” form according to the prayerbook (Молитвослов or Molitvoslov, Sbornik or Anthology, etc.) . I’ll try and post it soon, hopefully this week or the first week of the Great Fast.
And if you don’t know an Eastern form at all, it is not a catastrophe since quite a few Latins do come for the Holy Mystery of Repentance to our churches and most of our priests who have been in North America for any length of time have likely heard the Latin form. Don’t worry, the priest will not throw you out, but the prayer he uses for absolution will not be the same as in the Latin Rite.
FDRLB
It is a Holy Mystery, a real Sacrament, and the absolution in the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church is every bit as efficacious as any other Rite of the Catholic Church.
In the Ukrainian Catholic usage there is generally a “longer” and “shorter” form according to the prayerbook (Молитвослов or Molitvoslov, Sbornik or Anthology, etc.) . I’ll try and post it soon, hopefully this week or the first week of the Great Fast.
And if you don’t know an Eastern form at all, it is not a catastrophe since quite a few Latins do come for the Holy Mystery of Repentance to our churches and most of our priests who have been in North America for any length of time have likely heard the Latin form. Don’t worry, the priest will not throw you out, but the prayer he uses for absolution will not be the same as in the Latin Rite.
FDRLB
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Woodstock
Guest
When I confessed in a Ukrainian church, I was given the option of Ukrainian or Russian. I kissed the priest’s cross and ring, was told to kneel on the kneeler facing the priest, and confessed. There wasn’t an icon around. The priest absolved me in Ukrainian. I again kissed the cross and ring and was given a penance and left.
I don’t think that church is the ideal of the tradition, but it is out there.
I don’t think that church is the ideal of the tradition, but it is out there.
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Diak
Guest
By “church” I assume you mean that specific parish situation and not entire Particular Church sui iuris.
Sometimes for the priests from “old country” this is habit; during the underground days most of our priests regularly heard or went to confessions in the way you described, albeit in a room, outdoors, etc. since they could not publically do it in the churches and sometimes those habits (especially when they involve survival) are hard to kick.
FDRLB
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Patchunky
Guest
SLAVS ISUSU CHRISTU!
I remember hearing the Vladyka Semedi was an automechanic and used to hear confessions while doing tune-ups during the Communist times…
FDRandy, did you get the kutija off the ceiling yet??? Enquiring minds want to know…
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Diak
Guest
Slava na viki!
If I can just do something with the little brown stains on the spackling…
but no dangerous hunks threatening to fall off on someone’s noggin. I’m completely responsible now for all post-Svyatiy Vechir cleanup, as I certainly don’t expect the wife to cover for all those Hutsul antics…
FDRLB
If I can just do something with the little brown stains on the spackling…
but no dangerous hunks threatening to fall off on someone’s noggin. I’m completely responsible now for all post-Svyatiy Vechir cleanup, as I certainly don’t expect the wife to cover for all those Hutsul antics…Absolutely. I don’t know of any of our clergy who would not be willing to walk someone through. The only difficulty might be a bit of language challenge with a newer immigrant priest. But one can run into this as well in the Latin Church either, with all of the African, South American, Indian and Asian priests who (thankfully) seem to be coming over in increasing numbers.
FDRLB
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Hesychios
Guest
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Chris_McAvoy
Guest
A wonderful hierarch named Archbishop Vsevolod, whose glorication we pray for, was a practicing Psychotherapist for many years. In fairness I have heard a western priest deride the eastern form as being too involved like a psychiatric session and preferring to use what he thought of as a more simple detached western method, but never any denial that it is a Holy Mystery.
I do not think wikipedia has made a mistake to use the example of pyschiatry because for those people who are very ignorant of the practice it may seem to be a positive description. I also do not think of psychiatric session as being particularly derogatory because I believe that psychiatry is a great gift from God when it can be practiced and moderated by true Catholic and Orthodox Christianity which is exactly what Dr Joseph Nicolosi, Dr Charles Socarides and Fr Benedict Groeschel have done in their careers I enjoy the personal time with my spiritual father. In general the relationship between people in the community appears stronger in the Eastern Churches to myself. It is exactly what I pray to see more of in the West in the future. I feel that the anti-clericalism and trouble with the christianity in the west can be traced to this breakdown of healthy relationship between hierarchy and laity
I do not think wikipedia has made a mistake to use the example of pyschiatry because for those people who are very ignorant of the practice it may seem to be a positive description. I also do not think of psychiatric session as being particularly derogatory because I believe that psychiatry is a great gift from God when it can be practiced and moderated by true Catholic and Orthodox Christianity which is exactly what Dr Joseph Nicolosi, Dr Charles Socarides and Fr Benedict Groeschel have done in their careers I enjoy the personal time with my spiritual father. In general the relationship between people in the community appears stronger in the Eastern Churches to myself. It is exactly what I pray to see more of in the West in the future. I feel that the anti-clericalism and trouble with the christianity in the west can be traced to this breakdown of healthy relationship between hierarchy and laity
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Diak
Guest
His Grace of thrice-blessed memory had an outside practice as well. I don’t recall him ever attempting to say or recommend that sacramental Penance took the place of clinical treatment.
I am critical of the Wikipedia entry in that it may be seen as a reductio of the efficacy and eternal depth of the Mystery into a “counseling session”.
Certainly the healing aspect is vitally important, and is an important aspect of the Eastern approach. But there are also genuine afflictions of the mind that must be treated medically or clinically as well.
FDRLB
I am critical of the Wikipedia entry in that it may be seen as a reductio of the efficacy and eternal depth of the Mystery into a “counseling session”.
Certainly the healing aspect is vitally important, and is an important aspect of the Eastern approach. But there are also genuine afflictions of the mind that must be treated medically or clinically as well.
FDRLB
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Alexius
Guest
I don’t take it as meaning it isn’t efficacious or deep; it is a sacrament. I think it is much more of a clinical approach though. It is more like a different emphasis, but it is just as deep as the Latin practice. What I disagree with is the part about no confessionals. That isn’t true of the Ukrainian parish near me–confessionals on the left 
Prayers and petitions,
Alexius
Prayers and petitions,
Alexius
M
mschrank
Guest
How is it still a sacrament?
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Woodstock
Guest
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mgy100
Guest
Is not the allowance of a priest to absolve a Latin tradition?
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Woodstock
Guest
I do not believe a priest may absolve without first hearing the confession. I am open to correction, but I do not believe a person could confess to a nun and receive absolution from a priest in the Latin tradition.
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